Elder Scrolls V: Skyrim

[Stigmata]

tippy-top

Oh, dear god...

 

[VirusType2]

Here's the transcript of a Game Informer engine discussion with Todd Howard:

Spoiler

Creation Engine

Though Skyrim's Nordic setting is a more rugged environment than the Renaissance festival feel of Oblivion's Cyrodiil, the new setting isn't lacking in breathtaking views. To create a diverse country filled with steep mountain passes and dense forests, babbling brooks and violent waterfalls, glacier coastlines and snowy tundras, Bethesda went back to the drawing board and rewrote every major system powering the gameplay experience. The result is the newly dubbed Creation Engine and Kit.

“The big things for us were to draw a lot of stuff in the distance so we have a really sophisticated level of detail, more so than what we've had in the past for how things stream in and how detail gets added to them as they get closer to the camera,” explains Bethesda Studios creative director Todd Howard.

Draw distances are great for creating those postcard-worthy landscapes, but the players eyes aren't always fixed on the horizon. To give the immediate surrounding a more believable look and feel, Bethesda increased the emphasis on the play between light and shadow on the entire world.“Because our worlds are so big all of the lighting has to be dynamic,” Howard says. “That's something we had a little bit of in the past with shadowing, but not on everything. Now we have it on everything. It just makes the whole thing a lot more believable when you're there.”

A lot of the environments are dominated by the untamed wilderness, which look great thanks to Bethesda's overhauled foliage system. In previous games the team licensed the SpeedTree middleware to render the forests. For Skyrim, they've created their own platform that allows artists to build whatever kind of trees they want and to dictate how they animate. Artists can alter the weight of the branches to adjust how much they move in the wind, which is an effective way of, for instance, actualizing the danger of traversing steep mountain passes with howling winds violently shaking branches.

Given its northern location and extreme elevations, Skyrim's climate is more prone to snowfall than Cyrodiil. To create realistic precipitation effects, Bethesda originally tried to use shaders and adjust their opacity and rim lighting, but once the artists built the models and populated the world the snow appeared to fall too evenly. To work around this problem, they built a new precipitation system that allows artists to define how much snow will hit particular objects. The program scans the geography, then calculates where the snow should fall to make sure it accumulates properly on the trees, rocks, and bushes.

Bethesda has another ten months before Skyrim releases, but thanks to the Creation Engine the world already looks much more stunning than its predecessors. The non-player characters also seem to be more intelligent thanks to alterations the team made to the Radiant AI technology.


Radiant AI

The Radiant AI technology introduced in Oblivion went a long way toward making the NPCs act in realistic ways. If you followed a citizen through his daily activities, you would likely witness him or her eating breakfast, setting out to work the land, stopping by the pub for a pint after work, and then returning home to hit the sack.

In reality, the technology driving NPC behavior wasn't overly sophisticated. Bethesda could only assign five or six types of tasks to the townspeople, and there wasn't a lot of nuance to their actions. In Skyrim, the characters have much more defined individual personalities.

You won't find townspeople loitering aimlessly in town squares anymore. Each denizen performs tasks that make sense in their environment. To impart the towns and cities with a greater sense of life, Bethesda has populated them with mills, farms, and mines that give the NPCs believable tasks to occupy their day. In the forest village we visited during the demo, most of the citizens were hard at work chopping wood, running logs through the mill, and carrying goods through the town.

The improved Radiant AI technology is also more aware of how a citizen should react to your actions. As you perform tasks for them or terrorize them by ransacking their home, the NPCs develop feelings about you. If you're good friends with a particular NPC and barge into his house during the middle of the night, he may offer you lodging rather than demand you leave the premises. “Your friend would let you eat the apple in his house,” Howard says. If you swing your weapon near an NPC, knock items off their dinner table, or try to steal something of value, they'll react with an appropriate level of hostility given their prior relationship to you.


Havok Behavior

The expansive Oblivion and Fallout 3 settings created a wonderful sense of place, but the robotic and unrealistic character animations sometimes betrayed the sense of immersion the environments imparted. Aware of the disconnect, Bethesda has enlisted Havok's new Behavior technology to endow Skyrim's characters and creatures with a proper sense of movement.

“We looked at a bunch of [animation solutions], and this is about the tippy-top state-of-the-art stuff out there,” Howard says. “I think we're the first real big game to use it.”

Havok Behavior is a flexible animation tool that allows the developers to rapidly prototype and preview new animations and blend them together seamlessly with a few mouse clicks and minimal code support. Bethesda is using it to create more nuance in character and creature movement, govern special effects, and even to control how characters struggle to move when trapped in environmental hazards like spider webs. Characters now transition more realistically between walking, jogging, and running, and the increased nuance between animations has allowed Bethesda to better balance the combat in both first- and third-person perspective by adjusting the timing values for swings and blocks depending on your perspective. “We definitely have made a significant jump in how it plays [in third person perspective],” Howard proclaims.

The increased animation fidelity and diversity has enabled Bethesda to ditch the awkward dialogue camera perspective that paused the game and presented you with an extreme closeup of the person with whom you were speaking. Now camera stays in the same perspective used during combat and exploration, and players are free to look around while engaging in conversation. Rather than drop their activities to give you their undivided attention, the NPCs continue to go about their business while in discussion. For instance, a barkeep may continue to clean cups while talking, and even move from behind the counter to a seat. A mill worker chopping wood may engage in conversation without turning away from his duties, only occasionally glancing toward you during the exchange.

Perhaps the most impressive use of the Behavior technology is how Bethesda is using it to create the dragon animations. Bethesda has worked meticulously to make sure the beasts look powerful and menacing when banking, flapping their wings, gaining altitude before making another strafing run, and breathing fire on their hapless victims. None of the dragons' actions are scripted, and Behavior helps make the movements look non-mechanical, even when the dragons are speaking/shouting.

With all this technology at its fingertips, surely Bethesda could put players on the back of a woolly mammoth or a fire-breathing dragon, right? When we ask, for the first time during our visit Howard clams up. “We're not talking about mounts yet,” he says coyly.


Radiant Story

Before they started planning missions for Skyrim, Howard and his team reflected on what they liked about their older projects. They kept returning to the randomized encounters in Fallout 3 and Daggerfall. To build off the success of those models and improve the experience so the random encounters feel less forced or arbitrary, Bethesda undertook the ambitious task of constructing a new story management system dubbed Radiant Story. Many quests are still completely governed by Bethesda, but the Radiant Story system helps randomize and relate the side quests to players to make the experience as dynamic and reactive as possible. Rather than inundate you with a string of unrelated and mundane tasks, it tailors missions based on who your character is, where you're at, what you've done in the past, and what you're currently doing.

“Traditionally in an assassination quest, we would pick someone of interest and have you assassinate them,” Howard says. “Now there is a template for an assassination mission and the game can conditionalize all the roles – where it happens, under what conditions does it take place, who wants someone assassinated, and who they want assassinated. All this can be generated based on where the character is, who he's met. They can conditionalize that someone who you've done a quest for before wants someone assassinated, and the target could be someone with whom you've spent a lot of time before.”

The Radiant Story system also helps deal with untimely deaths. Predicting player behavior in an open world is tough, as many often stray from the main quests and get into trouble by murdering quest givers. In Skyrim, if you kill a shop owner who had a few quests to offer if you spend the time to get to know him, his sister may take over the shop and offer the quest that was formerly ascribed to him. The quest logic automatically picks up with pre-recorded voice work because Bethesda already assigned her that contingency role. Tread lightly though, because she's not oblivious to your dastardly actions. She will still recognize you killed her brother and perhaps even try to exact revenge later in the game.

Radiant Story is also smart enough to know which caves and dungeons you've already visited and thus conditionalize where, for instance, a kidnapped person is being held to direct you toward a specific place you haven't been to before, populated with a specific level of enemy. This helps Bethesda avoid repetition and usher the player into areas the team wants you to explore.

The story manager is always watching you, which can leads to strange random encounters as well. If you drop a sword in the middle of town, someone may pick it up and return it to you, or two guys may get into a fight over who gets to take it. If you're really good at a particular skill, like one-handed weapons or destruction spells, a stranger who knows of your reputation may ask for training, challenge you to a duel, or beg you for a favor that will require you to show off your skill.

Skyrim also tracks your friendships and grudges to generate missions. Do a small favor for a farmer and it may eventually lead to a larger quest. Some NPCs will even agree to be your companion to help you out in specific situations.

Radiant Story doesn't limit these new missions to encounters in towns. Like in Fallout 3 and Red Dead Redemption, a lot of random events occur while you're exploring the wilderness as well. "There are a wide variety of these random encounters," says design director Bruce Nesmith. "Many of them are things the player can interact with, some are not. You might save a priest who then tells you about a dungeon where there are people trapped that need saving. You might run across mammoth beset by a pack of wolves."

Some open world games go overboard with these side activities and stray too far from the main storyline. Bethesda is aware of this pitfall and is actively engaged in preventing the feeling of being overwhelmed by the Radiant Story missions.

Skyrim still has several months of development left, but after seeing the technology in action it looks like Bethesda's on track to set a new high bar for open world role-playing games.

Sounds extremely ambitious. I really hope Bethesda has refined their bug testing process extensively. QA needs to be on the ball with this one.

(Full size)

I don't really like that screenshot. How many polygons do you think that is? GEEZ. Couldn't there be some flat-faced rock in the background, and where is all the earth and eroding soil? Surely the entire world isn't made of rock.

The part of the background on the far left looks really good, but I don't know, son. I just don't really like the rest of the background. Too much boring rock. They could replace half of that background with ****ing sky and it'd look dope, then they could use more polys and other details on the foreground.

 

[knut]

(Full size)

I don't really like that screenshot. How many polygons do you think that is? Couldn't there be some flat faced rock in the background, and where is all the earth and eroding soil? Surely the entire world isn't made of rock.

dude, don't complain - everything there looks miles better then anything we've ever seen from bethesda before. well, i mean at least as a location/dungeon it looks far more interesting than just a bunch of ruins scattered about on a bit of a slope.

 

[Warped]

Its amazing where this PC only series has been. Now almost every gamer knows about it. even if that means some noobs get into it, at least it'll still stay a singleplayer game and we won't have to hear about it

 

[VictimOfScience]

Man, I just beat Two Worlds II and am playing through Gothic 4 right now (which is $19.99 at Target right now!) because all of this Skyrim talk has me DYING to play something even remotely like a new ES game. That screenshot looks magnificent. I just hope the whole world is not so damn harsh. I get it that this is a northern land, but I really hope there are some more lush and peaceful environments. I don't want to play a whole game set in midwestern Canada.

 

[Quixoticism]

I'm not going to lie, a co-op multiplayer feature for this game(/any TES game) would be stellar.

Also, both Morrowind and Oblivion had console releases.

I think it looks great!

 

[MultiVaC]

The stuff about the engine sounds great, and it sort gives me positive vibes about the modding potential still being intact. What they're saying about the setting is disappointing, though, because it sounds like the non-conventional fantasy design we saw in Morrowind is not coming back any time soon.

 

[Warbie]

That screenshot looks great. I love discovering and exploring new places in games like this - you turn a corner and there's an ancient tomb waiting to be plundered. My PC will be getting upgraded to hell to play this

 

[morgs]

Some of the ideas do sound very ambitious, but I'm a little excited. I'm let down more often than not when I get excited about a game though so I'm trying to keep my cool.

 

[Bad^Hat]

In reality, the technology driving NPC behavior [in Oblivion] wasn’t overly sophisticated.

Yeah no shit. Reality is a nice place, Todd, you should stop by more often.

 

[Nabobalis]

Man, I just beat Two Worlds II and am playing through Gothic 4 right now (which is $19.99 at Target right now!) because all of this Skyrim talk has me DYING to play something even remotely like a new ES game. That screenshot looks magnificent. I just hope the whole world is not so damn harsh. I get it that this is a northern land, but I really hope there are some more lush and peaceful environments. I don't want to play a whole game set in midwestern Canada.

Are Two Worlds II and Gothic 4 good?

 

[Gargantou]

Two Worlds II is a good game, I haven't beaten it yet, but have spent around maybe 20 hours total, 10 hours SP and 10 hours MP.

It's a big game in SP and quite fun.

Quite generic story and quests, but it's certainly a decent RPG if you want something to just pass the time until Skyrim comes out.

 

[CR0M]

They really don't like environment shadows do they. None in that screenshot. None. Why can every other developer manage it but not Bethesda? Looks like a higher poly version of the same old engine. Whine moan bitch bitch sulk.

 

[Gargantou]

They really don't like environment shadows do they. None in that screenshot. None. Why can every other developer manage it but not Bethesda? Looks like a higher poly version of the same old engine. Whine moan bitch bitch sulk.

Well said.

Assuming you are serious with the criticism, I became unsure due to the "Whine moan bitch bitch sulk" part.

Unless that is some new meme that I am unfamiliar with.

 

[CR0M]

You know i'm serious. You know it more than anyone, ja?

 

[comradesean]

They're going to have to do better than overlay a bunch of high poly models over top of daggerfall and remove a bunch of cool features (climbing walls and breaking down doors) and skills if they want me to buy this game.

Has there been any info on whether combat mechanics are actually responsive to whether you're parried or blocked? Generic swing animation 1 of 3 made combat boring as hell.

Also physics need to not suck. (having entire houses explode with physics objects like you were in an earthquake was just plain bad)

edit:
Also animations need to not suck. (they were terrible)


edit again:
They need to either scrap their face creation system or make faces that don't suck.

 

[Gargantou]

You know i'm serious. You know it more than anyone, ja?

I..

I have no idea what's going on right now..:|

 

[VictimOfScience]

Are Two Worlds II and Gothic 4 good?

As Garg already said, 2W2 is good, not great. It will keep you more than occupied though as it is pretty fun and does a good job of keeping your interest for the 25-30 hour quest. Gothic 4 is about the same I am finding. The engine doesn't seem nearly as smooth, but it looks great and has held my interest for around 10 hours so far. The HUGE difference is the weapon and spell crafting. 2W2 is pretty insane when it comes to this. Gothic 4 is not at all (unless I am missing something entirely). Combat is about the same in both. Story is about an trite in both. I don't mind this though and have come to expect and look forward to it with RPGs. I LOVE the original Dragin Warrior after all. I don't think you can go wrong with either game, but at least with Gothic 4 you can try the demo if you are on PC. Otherwise, I would tell anyone to get it asap at $20 which it is at Target right now.

 

[Tagaziel]

As Garg already said, 2W2 is good, not great. It will keep you more than occupied though as it is pretty fun and does a good job of keeping your interest for the 25-30 hour quest. Gothic 4 is about the same I am finding. The engine doesn't seem nearly as smooth, but it looks great and has held my interest for around 10 hours so far. The HUGE difference is the weapon and spell crafting. 2W2 is pretty insane when it comes to this. Gothic 4 is not at all (unless I am missing something entirely). Combat is about the same in both. Story is about an trite in both. I don't mind this though and have come to expect and look forward to it with RPGs. I LOVE the original Dragin Warrior after all. I don't think you can go wrong with either game, but at least with Gothic 4 you can try the demo if you are on PC. Otherwise, I would tell anyone to get it asap at $20 which it is at Target right now.

Gothic 4 has about as much in common with other Gothic titles as a pug has in common with a corgi. In other words, Gothic 4 is an action game with stats, not an RPG. It's excruciatingly linear (you absolutely can't progress through the story in order different than what the developers impose on you) and its writing is terrible. Especially the whole "I'm pregnant LOL" plot device at the beginning, which is handled with the tact and subtlety of an industrial jackhammer. It's basically a bad Gothic game. Risen is Gothic IV.

I'm looking forward to getting Two Worlds II at a sale. I enjoyed the previous game quite a bit, there was something fun in it, something similiar to Might & Magic VI. And cities felt like actual cities, though lacking in landmarks.

As for Skyrim, I should elaborate. I am wary of getting excited about the game because I don't trust Bethesda to deliver a polished, balanced game and the previews don't give me much hope. Yes, the graphics engine was rewritten, but it isn't a new engine - it still is the same old Gamebryo without environmental shadows and will likely inherit legacy bugs and glitches.

Furthermore, the game is dumbed down and there's no denying it. One third of skills from Morrowind have been removed, there are eighteen instead of twenty seven now. Five schools of magic instead of six. Level scaling returns. Todd Howard's approach to game design, the reinventing of the wheel, is in my opinion the exact problem Bethesda has - rather than iterating on succesful designs (Morrowind), they reimagine the game each time (Oblivion, Skyrim), reducing the complexity in the process.

I'm also skeptical about Radiant Story. The much vaunted Radiant AI was an embarassing failure in Oblivion. They couldn't make it work properly and had to lobotomize it in Oblivion, which is indicative of their ability to code or rather lack thereof. How can they claim that more complex systems will work properly if their less advanced predecessors don't?

And then there's the writing. Sure, we haven't seen it yet, but the following quote (apparently the prophecy) tells me that it will be the typical "monkey on a typewriter" hilariously bad writing:

Dragonborn Dragonborn
By his honor is sworn
To keep evil forever at bay
And the fiercest foes rout
When they hear triumph's shout
Dragonborn for your blessing we pray

And the scrolls have fortold
Of black wings in the cold
That when brothers wage war come unfurled
Alduin bane of kings
Ancient shadow unbound
With a hunger to swallow the world

You're asking me to treat Skyrim as a dark fantasy game where the shadow of destruction looms on all creation, but can't be arsed to make the prophecy not sound like a Saturday morning cartoon theme song?

 

[VirusType2]

Furthermore, the game is dumbed down and there's no denying it. One third of skills from Morrowind have been removed, there are eighteen instead of twenty seven now.

I would guess it's probably because they don't really work right as far as balancing. Got a list?

In Morrowind, unarmored ended up being better than armored, at least in my opinion. Why struggle early-on with crappy mis-matched armor pieces (light/medium/heavy) if you can get to a quick jump start with a major advantage stark naked. After all, it could take a long time before you get access to good armor.

the reinventing of the wheel, is in my opinion the exact problem Bethesda has - rather than iterating on succesful designs (Morrowind), they reimagine the game each time (Oblivion, Skyrim), reducing the complexity in the process.

It's called refinement, not reinventing the wheel...

As much as I loved Morrowind, the combat was incredibly flawed; a real sore point of the game. The combat in Oblivion was so much better, it actually carried the game.

Five schools of magic instead of six.

In my opinion that school of magic (Mysticism) 'ruined' Oblivion. I was 100% invincible to most forms of damage by the time I was level 25 or something on my first play-through. This was by means of some enchanted items I found from the Mysticism school.

One of them one of the most common drops in the game - the Mundane ring; an almost guaranteed to drop if you play through the main quest at [like] level 20 and up.

"Mundane" because it's boring to be invincible? Equipped on a Breton (as it were), I was 100% immune to magic - with one just item.

Not only that, I had other items from the Mysticism school, making me nearly immune to physical damage. In fact, if I just stood there, enemies would fall before me; attacking me would only damage themselves. A demigod.

That school of magic had to go. And you are worried about balance but complaining about an easy to obtain E-Z MODE near-god like character?

See the ways to get Near Invincible Stats, all to blame on that school of magic they are dropping - Mystism: http://oblivion.wikia.com/wiki/Cheats#Near_Invincible_Stats

As a Breton, you have natural 50% resistance, so the Mundane Ring alone is enough to reach 100% Resist Magic.

That means you are completely immune to spells and 'enchanted' weapon damage. The enemy cannot even lower it with "weakness to magic" when it is 100%.


The ring also gives you 35% reflect magic, so when enemies attack you, you are encouraged to run into the 'missiles' so that they are harmed by their own attacks.

Combine that with some of the guaranteed access quest items along the same school, and it's mundane for sure.

Poor design; now refined.

The much vaunted Radiant AI was an embarassing failure in Oblivion. They couldn't make it work properly and had to lobotomize it in Oblivion, which is indicative of their ability to code or rather lack thereof. How can they claim that more complex systems will work properly if their less advanced predecessors don't?

Aren't you a programmer? Then you should know they build off what they have.

As long as the code doesn't get so complex as to where the programmers can no longer understand it, then they can improve it. I would call these improvements (beyond what they were previously capable of) as "breakthroughs". As the complexity increases, the time it takes increases in magnitudes. Every single line of code - an improvement somewhere might potentially screw up something else.

I wish they would bring back spears and "medium" grade armor, but things take time and money, and this is an extremely competitive, cut throat, million dollar industry.

At least they give us mod tools! Make a spear or medium armor set.

And then there's the writing. Sure, we haven't seen it yet, but the following quote (apparently the prophecy) tells me that it will be the typical "monkey on a typewriter" hilariously bad writing

I agree that - from that quote right there - the writing and plot sounds dumbed down for younger players.

However, from the audio clip I heard, the voice acting and story-telling was completely ****ing epic.

 

[Tagaziel]

I would guess it's probably because they don't really work right as far as balancing. Got a list?

In Morrowind, unarmored ended up being better than armored, at least in my opinion. Why struggle early-on with crappy mis-matched armor pieces (light/medium/heavy) if you can get to a quick jump start with a major advantage stark naked. After all, it could take a long time before you get access to good armor.

Yes, Unarmoured gives you an advantage in the beginning. Why shouldn't it? Light, medium and heavy armour skills have pay offs later in the game with increasingly better suits of armour and finally uniques. Game balance doesn't mean every build should have an identical diffculty beginning. Yes, Unarmoured gives you a benefit, but also precludes you from benefiting from high end armours. Naked skin doesn't carry enchantments.

It's called refinement, not reinventing the wheel...

As much as I loved Morrowind, the combat was incredibly flawed; a real sore point of the game. The combat in Oblivion was so much better, it actually carried the game.

I never claimed Morrowind's combat was good or bad. I liked it, because it made your equipment and skills matter. Conversely, I dislike Oblivion's "scaled damage" model and the conviction that if you swing it, it must hit it. Skills magically increase damage you do. It's hilarious that a warhammer does less damage when you have 1 point in a skill than when you have 100 in it. The damage in my opinion should be constant and skills should affect the chance to hit. Then just code in dodge or shield animations to play whenever you fail to hit.

Refinement implies evolution, not revolution. That's why I say they should've iterated on Morrowind's design, rather than throw it out the window and built another one, cutting features and content.

By the way, colors and boldings don't make you look smarter, quite to the contrary.

In my opinion that school of magic (Mysticism) 'ruined' Oblivion. I was 100% invincible to most forms of damage by the time I was level 25 or something on my first play-through. This was by means of some enchanted items I found from the Mysticism school.

One of them one of the most common drops in the game - the Mundane ring; an almost guaranteed to drop if you play through the main quest at [like] level 20 and up.

"Mundane" because it's boring to be invincible? Equipped on a Breton (as it were), I was 100% immune to magic - with one just item.

Not only that, I had other items from the Mysticism school, making me nearly immune to physical damage. In fact, if I just stood there, enemies would fall before me; attacking me would only damage themselves. A demigod.

That school of magic had to go. And you are worried about balance but complaining about an easy to obtain E-Z MODE near-god like character?

See the ways to get Near Invincible Stats, all to blame on that school of magic they are dropping - Mystism: http://oblivion.wikia.com/wiki/Cheats#Near_Invincible_Stats


That means you are completely immune to spells and 'enchanted' weapon damage. The enemy cannot even lower it with "weakness to magic" when it is 100%.


The ring also gives you 35% reflect magic, so when enemies attack you, you are encouraged to run into the 'missiles' so that they are harmed by their own attacks.

Combine that with some of the guaranteed access quest items along the same school, and it's mundane for sure.

Poor design; now refined.

I wouldn't call cutting features and simplifying the game because you can't be arsed to sit down and actually balance it refined. In general I wouldn't call cutting corners refined.

In fact I never bothered to use mysticism.

Aren't you a programmer? Then you should know they build off what they have.

But what they have is broken.

As long as the code doesn't get so complex as to where the programmers can no longer understand it, then they can improve it. I would call these improvements (beyond what they were previously capable of) as "breakthroughs". As the complexity increases, the time it takes increases in magnitudes. Every single line of code - an improvement somewhere might potentially screw up something else.

Uh, your dictionary amazes me. Every improvement is a breakthrough? A breakthrough would be Bethesda coding in environmental shadows (and only for Bethesda, because the rest of the world managed to do that years ago)

I wish they would bring back spears and "medium" grade armor, but things take time and money, and this is an extremely competitive, cut throat, million dollar industry.

I knew you were a consumer drone, but to this degree? Why do you agree with every decision they make and find excuses for that? Demand quality in your entertainment, damn it.

I agree that - from that quote right there - the writing and plot sounds dumbed down for younger players.

However, from the audio clip I heard, the voice acting and story-telling was completely ****ing epic.

Yay, more mindless hype. Patrick Stewart in Oblivion did not make crappy writing and a poor story any better.

 

[Bad^Hat]

That means you are completely immune to spells and 'enchanted' weapon damage.

You forgot to colour that apostrophe.

No need to thank me.

 

[Gargantou]

You forgot to colour that apostrophe.

No need to thank me.

Bad^Hat, with your eyes for details you should become a P.I.

 

[Krynn72]

Color coding words for emphasis makes me lol.

 

[Gargantou]

Especially when he picks such a terrible color as that purple/pink mix.

 

[StardogChampion]

I'm also skeptical about Radiant Story.

I doubt they even have to update their previous system much to do this. From the interview, it's just some extra conditionals thrown in.

 

[the cow says moo]

In fact I never bothered to use mysticism.

Then why do you care if they cut the school of mysticism out of the game?

 

[comradesean]

I'd like to say that whoever said that Bethesda has thrown out refining their games and just starts from scratch nailed it head on.

Daggerfall was a wonderful game back in the day. Definitely wonderful for it's time. But what have they actually improved since then besides their rendering engine? The rendering engine that they themselves didn't create, but purchased and modified. The rendering engine that they have yet to fix all the flaws in that they created by modifying it.

Sure, the AI stuff was cool in oblivion but that was in Ultima 6 a long time ago and it was even better in that game too.

I'm not saying the games are bad, but it really doesn't feel like they play their own games. I can play through a boring story as long as I enjoy the experience. What I can't play through is a game with a terrible three animation weapon swing (with no feedback on whether you were parried or blocked) and an even worse player animation.

It also didn't help that I felt pidgeon-holed into using magic even though I wanted a pure steel user. You had very little alternatives to healing yourself and it was just so powerful even at the start.

 

[Tagaziel]

Then why do you care if they cut the school of mysticism out of the game?

Because unlike you, apparently, I don't consider myself to be the centre of the entire universe and think my opinions are divine. Just because I don't use a particular skill doesn't mean no one else does.

 

[taviow]

Moddable.

 

[Kadayi]

With all that phat money the fallout games have made for them hopefully this one will live upto expectations. Bethesda's weakness is generally the polish Vs the Bioware experience. But they should be flush enough now to get better animations & VO in there.

 

[Bad^Hat]

I'm usually on the fence about features being cut down for "refinement," I tend to be forgiving as long as the remaining features are actually, you know, refined. However, I don't agree with the idea that since Mysticism "broke the game" and it was "ALL MYSTICISM'S FAULT" that they should just excise it like a gammy leg. You know, they could always fix it, like they claim to be doing with their AI. Guess it just wasn't an important enough part of the world or lore to keep around.

 

[B_MAN]

Moddable.

excellent.

 

[morgs]

I have to say I rarely use magic when playing oblivion, except heal occasionally, it's just a lot of extra work managing spells and scrolls when you could do just as much damage if not more with melee weapons/bows. plus the spells all seem really small/weak, I mean if the fireballs got bigger it'd be cool but the magic never felt like it was really getting any better.

 

[Qonfused]

I have to say I rarely use magic when playing oblivion, except heal occasionally, it's just a lot of extra work managing spells and scrolls when you could do just as much damage if not more with melee weapons/bows. plus the spells all seem really small/weak, I mean if the fireballs got bigger it'd be cool but the magic never felt like it was really getting any better.

Being a magic user in Oblivion is like playing the game on kiddie mode. A little work and you can craft spells that kill on one hit.

 

[MultiVaC]

I doubt they even have to update their previous system much to do this. From the interview, it's just some extra conditionals thrown in.

That's the problem, though. Their current system sucks. Giving it more things to fail at won't help. I would love to see them pull it off, but whenever any developer makes claims like that it never ends up being even half what they claim in the finished game.

 

[VirusType2]

Unarmoured..

The fact is, I liked unarmored in principal (have been saying so for years).

What I was saying is that there may be reasons why they took things out. I was suggesting it's possible things don't work anymore with the way the game has evolved. It's not necessarily dumbing down, for example:

>In Morrowind, you had a dice roll chance to evade an attack, despite there being no animation. The weapon just goes through you and does no damage. (Unarmored Skill increased this chance)

>You actually have to dodge and move out of the way in Oblivion, instead of relying on a dice roll to evade.

Skills magically increase damage you do.

It's hilarious that a warhammer does less damage when you have 1 point in a skill than when you have 100 in it.

You don't believe you can become more skilled with a weapon? How does being skilled in an art not help you be more effective?

Spoiler

BaseWeaponDamage * 0.5 * ( 0.75 + Strength * 0.005 ) * ( 0.2 + ModifiedSkill * 0.015 ) * ( WeaponHealth/MaxWeaponHealth + 1 )/2

The complete formula for Blades, Blunts and Bows is:

Damage = WeaponRating * (Fatigue / MaxFatigue + 1) / 2 * SneakMultiplier * PowerAttackMultiplier * OpponentArmorRating * OpponentWeaponResistance

Where WeaponRating is:

WeaponRating = BaseWeaponDamage * 0.5 * ( 0.75 + Attribute * 0.005 ) * ( 0.2 + ModifiedSkill * 0.015 ) * ( WeaponHealth / BaseWeaponHealth + 1 ) / 2

http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Oblivion:Weapons#Damage_Calculations
http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Oblivion:The_Complete_Damage_Formula

You can't please everyone. You can make a mod that changes it however you want in less than 5 minutes. I have messed around with the modifiers before.

The damage in my opinion should be constant and skills should affect the chance to hit.

Then just code in dodge or shield animations to play whenever you fail to hit.

You want the game to decide if you blocked or dodged or not and control your character. So you don't actually want to play this game then. They aren't going to implement gameplay techniques from 1985. The combat in Morrowind was primitive even for the time.


You know what - you're right. If they would just dumb it down to KNIGHT HITS FOR 3 DAMAGE, WHITE MAGE CASTS CURE, they'd surely more easily be able to implement more Skills and weapon types.

Time wasters. The true definition of dumbing down, perhaps? Press space to win.

By the way, colors and boldings don't make you look smarter, quite to the contrary.

Using "colored text" makes me look stupid? I'll keep that in mind.

Well, what excuse do you have then?

In fact I never bothered to use mysticism.
...
Just because I don't use a particular skill doesn't mean no one else does.

Like I went into great detail on (a wasted effort, perhaps), mysticism completely ruined the balance and fun of the game.

Who are you defending? No one else seems to care much, and I am really glad it's gone as I have been complaining about it for 5 years. So, if it's all the same to you...

A breakthrough would be Bethesda coding in environmental shadows (and only for Bethesda, because the rest of the world managed to do that years ago)

It's a breakthrough when you finally get something to work that you were stuck on; a breakthrough development. Yes, it could be environmental shadows, and yes they could be stuck trying to get it to work right in their game.

I was always annoyed by the real-time character shadows that show through from the floor above, for example. A breakthrough would be to figure out how to stop that.

I knew you were a consumer drone, but to this degree?

Yeah, I'm a consumer drone... I don't even own any consoles and -- except the 10 or so Indie games I bought -- the last PC game I bought was in 2007. The last game I bought before that was in 2006.

Rabid consumer drone here.

You're ****ing hilarious. You can tell from this post, I'm lapping it up.

You guys complain about them taking out things that ****ing sucked... Unbelievable. Really, I can hardly believe it.


You want to hear me complain some more, is that it? How about the fact that the PC graphics are held back because of console limitations and look like they are from 2005? And the way they implement offensive weapon enchantments (fire blade, etc.) has been extremely poor. However, it's possible they have improved it, since Soul Trap was mysticism. Maybe they will actually fix it the way I have been suggesting all these years by using "Chance on Hit" weapon spell effect.

Why do you agree with every decision they make and find excuses for that?

That's a ridiculous assertion. I am a perfectionist. So could there be a bigger critic? This is the only video game that interests me anymore, and I am not hyped up about it at all. I simply see some of the changes [you complain about] as positive changes.

One of the changes I have been demanding in every TES thread for the past 5 years is that they remove Mysticism. There isn't really anyway to fix it since the entire idea is dumb. You should never be able to stand there while the enemy kills itself by attacking you.

Because unlike you, apparently, I don't consider myself to be the centre of the entire universe and think my opinions are divine.

HAHAHAHAHA That's hilarious.

Well, for 26 years, I have been a hobbyist game programmer and I have been mostly focused on game design - particularly the gameplay mechanics, playing or trying easily over 10,000 games and have examined the values of their design. My dream is a career in game design and development. So, yeah. I have 'an opinion' on game design.

My first computer was Black and White (no grays), and my second computer had 8 colors. One of them was Cyan and another was Magenta. Wow did those color choices suck, until I realized that they were AWESOME because they were IN COLOR.

 

[Wanted Bob]

Uh, your dictionary amazes me. Every improvement is a breakthrough? A breakthrough would be Bethesda coding in environmental shadows (and only for Bethesda, because the rest of the world managed to do that years ago)

I do believe they said that environmental shadows were going to be put on everything in the game.

Also, I liked Mysticism, but I'm fine with the spells being merged into other schools.

 

[Shakermaker]

I don't consider myself to be the centre of the entire universe and think my opinions are divine.

You could have fooled me.

 

[Krynn72]

You want the game to decide if you blocked or dodged or not and control your character. So you don't actually want to play this game then. They aren't going to implement gameplay techniques from 1985. The combat in Morrowind was primitive even for the time.

Yup.