Engine Break-in Help (new bike \o/)

[sinkoman]

I bought a new KLX250s, and am really confused as to how to break in the engine. This is the first time i've ever bought a brand new bike (all my prior ones have been used), so it's really never been a problem till now.

I've read so many different methods, that I should run it hard, vary the revs, vary the revs but keep it under the manuals break-in rev limit, follow the manual thoroughly, warm it up on a stand, drive it up a hill a few times and constantly vary the gears, etc etc etc. It's a mental overload! I don't know which method to use!

HALP!

 

[jverne]

I bought a new KLX250s, and am really confused as to how to break in the engine. This is the first time i've ever bought a brand new bike (all my prior ones have been used), so it's really never been a problem till now.

I've read so many different methods, that I should run it hard, vary the revs, vary the revs but keep it under the manuals break-in rev limit, follow the manual thoroughly, warm it up on a stand, drive it up a hill a few times and constantly vary the gears, etc etc etc. It's a mental overload! I don't know which method to use!

HALP!

as far as i know...i've done this alot...

for the first 500 to 1000 km don't speed it too much.

when it's cold start slowly with few revs. to warm it up do like this...

don't touch the throttle, then turn it to the max really fast and release it just as fast. if you reach high revs you're doing something wrong.

when driving for longer periods remember to release the throttle evry now and then, don't drive the engine continuously, especially when you're going up hill.

 

[repiV]

Yeah, I've had this experience because they decided to give me a brand new SV650S as a courtesy bike. The manual says to keep it below 5500 revs for the first 500 miles, then below 8240 revs for the second 500 miles. And vary the engine speed and such.
I got bored of this after about 100 miles and now I just ride the damn thing, they're making ?700 a week off the other guy's insurance company for the hire so **** it.
There is also a school of thought that says the best way to break a modern engine in is to rag the bollocks off of it, and this can result in up to to 10% increased power and greater reliability...but best thing to do, ask on a bike forum.

 

[clarky003]

Yeh this isn't the style of halflife2.net, you guys forgot the obligatory silly comment...

I bought a new KLX250s, and am really confused as to how to break in the engine.

Stick your penus in teh exhaust valve.

 

[Fliko]

Stick your penus in teh exhaust valve.

Okay 4Chan

 

[xcellerate]

There is also a school of thought that says the best way to break a modern engine in is to rag the bollocks off of it, and this can result in up to to 10% increased power and greater reliability...

buhahahaha....yea I'd love to see that happen.

You just gotta drive around like a normal, calm human being. All you're doing is letting the metal on metal parts wear into each other. Things like piston rings, which are smooth against the smooth cylinder wall, need to basically cut into each other for a nice fit. It's like how when you replace the rings you have to hone the cylinders, so they can properly seat again.

 

[repiV]

buhahahaha....yea I'd love to see that happen.

You just gotta drive around like a normal, calm human being. All you're doing is letting the metal on metal parts wear into each other. Things like piston rings, which are smooth against the smooth cylinder wall, need to basically cut into each other for a nice fit. It's like how when you replace the rings you have to hone the cylinders, so they can properly seat again.

Hey, I'm just reiterating what i've heard. I don't understand any of this shit, but a level of knowledge really is mandatory unfortunately. I prefer to just ride the damn thing.

http://www.mototuneusa.com/break_in_secrets.htm

Yes, I'm fully aware it looks about as credible as any other "FIND OUT THE SECRETS OF UNLIMITED WEALTH/THE ILLUMINATI/BLACK HELICOPTERS" website flogging an ebook for $29.99 along with assorted free gifts, but it's far from the only place the opinion has been expressed.

In any case, the owner's manual should tell you how to run it in "by the book".

 

[sinkoman]

I put around 14 miles on my bike today. I tried to, instead of following any specific guide, just ride around town normally and avoid constant throttle.

Every so often, when the the road was empty, I opened it up, rode it at pretty high throttle, and then hit the brakes the decelerate the engine quickly (as per motoman's guide).

How's that sound?

In any case, the owner's manual should tell you how to run it in "by the book".

"By the book" just isn't going to work. I'm going to get rear ended trying to keep this thing under 4k RPMs. It's a dirtbike, not a streetbike, so it's geared fairly low. Not to mention, all the power on this particular bike is in the higher RPMs, past 6k, and from what i've heard from EVERYBODY, is that the manual recommended break-in is complete and utter bullocks.

 

[jverne]

I put around 14 miles on my bike today. I tried to, instead of following any specific guide, just ride around town normally and avoid constant throttle.

Every so often, when the the road was empty, I opened it up, rode it at pretty high throttle, and then hit the brakes the decelerate the engine quickly (as per motoman's guide).

How's that sound?

better than nothing, just don't rev the bike too long.

if it is a dirt bike, it'll be tough because the low gears.

but what i've heard is that dirt bikes don't need a long break in, because the cylinder, piston and other high stressed parts get changed frequently.
so there's no point to have a 1000km break in period if the cylinder is meant to last 1000km.

 

[sinkoman]

better than nothing, just don't rev the bike too long.

if it is a dirt bike, it'll be tough because the low gears.

but what i've heard is that dirt bikes don't need a long break in, because the cylinder, piston and other high stressed parts get changed frequently.
so there's no point to have a 1000km break in period if the cylinder is meant to last 1000km.

Well, my bike is a 4t dual sport, instead of the firecracker 2t engines that they race, so i'd like my engine to last as long as possible, since that's one of the big perks of owning a 4t (you don't have to rebuild every year).

God dammit, i've got this cloud over my head telling me that if I don't do this in an exacting manner, i'm going to end up with a worthless engine

 

[Top Secret]

Whatever you do, do NOT just start it and let it sit there, thinking you are breaking in the engine! Read THIS:

http://www.mototuneusa.com/break_in_secrets.htm

 

[xcellerate]

lol...i can't believe how much coverage this guy is getting. His stuff is nonsense.

I mean especially when he calls it a "piston ring seal." A piston ring seal would mean something that seals the piston rings...which doesn't exist. The piston rings are a seal. The piston doesn't actually contact the cylinder walls, there's 3 piston rings that are used to contain pressure up top, and keep oil below. If your piston rings fail you can get oil blowing past and into the combustion chamber, and it'll **** with your combustion, the engine will run horribly, it will leak out of the head gasket, and blow oil through the exhaust.

The pistons rings press outwards quite hard, in fact when you're inserting a piston with new rings into the cylinder you have to have a special tool that compresses the piston rings so it can slid in.

If you think about it, the ring exerts maybe 5-10 lbs of spring tension against the cylinder wall ...
How can such a small amount of spring tension seal against thousands of
PSI (Pounds Per Square Inch) of combustion pressure ??
Of course it can't.

wtf does he mean it can't?! Not only can it, but it does. And I'll tell you how (holy shit)!

The piston looks like this:
-----|
-----|
--|
-----|
-----|
--|
-----|
-----|
--|
-----|
-----|

and the rings sit in those grooves like this:
-----|
-----|
--|===
-----|
-----|
--|===
-----|
-----|
--|===
-----|
-----|

then the cylinder wall goes right next to them:
-----|...|
-----|...|
--|===|
-----|...|
-----|...|
--|===|
-----|...|
-----|...|
--|===|
-----|...|
-----|...|

so basically if you zoomed in on the top piston ring you would see that maybe < 1/3 of the ring itself pokes out from the piston. Then I can tell you that my GTi makes 150psi under compression testing, so you have a simple pressure formula that's pressure = force/area. So between the ring and the top of the piston, you'll see that the ring itself makes up a very small % of the area being hit by the force of combustion, which leads to a very small force.


edit: lol I love this picture and caption:

The piston on the right was broken in as per MotoMan's instructions.

It may have been broken in with his instructions, but then it got deep cleaned and new rings installed, because no piston that has been in a running engine will EVER come out that clean.

Besides, no matter what he says that picture is retarded because when you install piston rings the opening in the ring should always been rotated 90* from the next one. So even if the rings 'fell together' like that, which I doubt since they're so perfectly lined up, he should have rotated them just for the sake of the picture.


Either way, just use your head and think. Do what everybody including the manufacturer says, or listen to some guy who has a webpage...

 

[jverne]

Well, my bike is a 4t dual sport, instead of the firecracker 2t engines that they race, so i'd like my engine to last as long as possible, since that's one of the big perks of owning a 4t (you don't have to rebuild every year).

God dammit, i've got this cloud over my head telling me that if I don't do this in an exacting manner, i'm going to end up with a worthless engine

dude it's a 4t? then don't worry too much...4t are less prone to stress than ordinary 2t.

just drive it nicely. just keep in mind some advices posted here.

 

[sinkoman]

Either way, just use your head and think. Do what everybody including the manufacturer says, or listen to some guy who has a webpage...

Well, that's the problem. I realize that Motoman sounds like a ****ing idiot, but i've really had a grand total of one person tell me to follow the manufacturer recommended break in, and nearly 20 people tell me that the manufacturer's procedure is bullocks.

Till I find a definitive answer, I think i'll just ignore that sticker on my dash telling me to keep it under 4k Revs, and just drive it easy, and keep the revs varied.

How do you break in your engines xcellerate?

Should I be excessively worried about the dealer using synthetic oil in the engine, because i'm reading that synthetics will cause glazing. Or will they have filled the sump with the appropriate break-in oil?

 

[xcellerate]

How do you break in your engines xcellerate?

I just rebuilt the bottom end on my GTi about 500 miles ago (2 weeks ago) and I'm driving it normally, but I still haven't hit redline. And like I said earlier, that's the way I've done it with my past few cars, just drive it normally. I don't go easy or hard on it, and just take it around town occasionally reving it high (4-5k [redline is 6500]). I go about 500 miles, change the oil and filter, and then start driving it how I want to.

Should I be excessively worried about the dealer using synthetic oil in the engine, because i'm reading that synthetics will cause glazing. Or will they have filled the sump with the appropriate break-in oil?

Well I'm not sure about motorcycles, but I know cars like BMW come with synthetic from the factory. I use regular oil for the 500 miles, and then switch to synthetic for the rest.




Although to be entirely honest, I think the break-in period is a lot less than people make it out to be. I mean you could probably take your car off the lot doing a rolling burnout and it would be fine. These engines are built almost idiot proof. We had a guy from honda come to our school for the mechanical engineers, and he was talking about the engine testing process. He said they would freeze the engines overnight, and then in the morning start them right up and run them at redline till something exploded so they could find the weakest parts and fix them.

There's no doubt the metal on metal parts need to break into each other, but it's probably kind of how people who have never had kids always try and be so gentle with other people's babies, meanwhile the parents throw them around and spin them on the floor and stuff....if that analogy makes sense.

 

[sinkoman]

Well, i've got about 70 miles on the bike so far.

I've heard two different oil change strategies for break in so far. Some people have said to change the oil after the first 50 miles, to get all the metal crap away from the transmission (since transmission and engine oil are one in the same for bikes), and some people have told me to leave the oil in there for at least 500 miles, to let the metal fillings polish up the gears.

Which strat sounds more logical to you folks? I'm thinking the first

 

[CyberPitz]

You people and your crazy pistons

I know for my car, the break in is really crazy. first 500 miles, <5k rpms. After that, shift at 7k...

Then after you pass 1500 miles, do whatever you want.

This is, of course, for a rotary, so I'm not 100% sure on your bike..

 

[jverne]

You people and your crazy pistons

I know for my car, the break in is really crazy. first 500 miles, <5k rpms. After that, shift at 7k...

Then after you pass 1500 miles, do whatever you want.

This is, of course, for a rotary, so I'm not 100% sure on your bike..

you have a wanker..emm...Wankel motor?

 

[CyberPitz]

you have a wanker..emm...Wankel motor?

Hey, any engine running off 1/2 it's workable parts *1 rotor!* and can hold at 9k RPMs for 5 minutes, and still turn off/on, then go for another 9k RPMs for 5 more minutes, and then start shooting fire out the tailpipe..is a good engine to me can't go wrong with 3 moving parts haha.

 

[sinkoman]

You people and your crazy pistons

I know for my car, the break in is really crazy. first 500 miles, <5k rpms. After that, shift at 7k...

Then after you pass 1500 miles, do whatever you want.

This is, of course, for a rotary, so I'm not 100% sure on your bike..

Break in on my bike is equally ridiculous.

< 4k RPMs for the first 500 MI
< 6k RPMs till 1000 MI

I've just ignored the breakin warnings altogether, and am just riding around as if it were past the breakin.

Still wondering about when to change my oil, i've got around 100 MI on the bike now!!!

On a side note, I hit the freeway today \o/. Good fun, first time i've ever been on the freeway on a bike, but it was kind of scary. As you know, dirtbikes have a HUGE ass front fender that sticks out all the way to kentucky, and that, coupled with some fairly fast winds (which used the fenders like sails), made it feel like I was going to wash out at any second.

 

[Moto]

Breaking in a new dirt bike is nothing to stress over. Just take it easy the first few rides and change the oil after every 3-4 rides and you'll be fine. If you're a new rider, you're not going to be hard enough on your motor to do any damage as far as breaking it in goes.

Seriously, it's no big deal at all.

If you were a really fast, experienced racer with a new 4 stroke motocross bike that revs to 13,000 RPM, then I would worry about being cautious and conservative during break-in time. But, your bike is a pretty docile enduro bike that doesn't rev too high. So have fun and don't worry.

 

[sinkoman]

Breaking in a new dirt bike is nothing to stress over. Just take it easy the first few rides and change the oil after every 3-4 rides and you'll be fine. If you're a new rider, you're not going to be hard enough on your motor to do any damage as far as breaking it in goes.

Seriously, it's no big deal at all.

If you were a really fast, experienced racer with a new 4 stroke motocross bike that revs to 13,000 RPM, then I would worry about being cautious and conservative during break-in time. But, your bike is a pretty docile enduro bike that doesn't rev too high. So have fun and don't worry.

THANKYOU!!!

I love you. If this forum had a rep system, i'd definitely give you +1.

I'm by no means a new rider, but i've only taken this bike over 8k revs twice, and that was just to see how much power there was over 6k. I immediately freaked out after maybe 5 seconds of reving and hit my brakes

I'm more used to tight singletrack that never gets over 30 mph

Last few questions

I'll probably change my oil tomorrow. Is it alright if I just drop some Castrol 10W-40 in there, or should I be using natural oil? If I need to use natural, would Valvoline be ok? This is the first bike that i've owned that has and oil filter, so is it imperative that I change the filter at the same time as the oil?

And, just as with the oil filter, this is the first bike i've owned with rear disc brakes. I'm used to thick and muddy feeling Drums. I've noticed though, that sometimes the rear brakes squeek when i'm using them. Is this normal for a set of brand new pads? The fronts don't squeek at all.

Last Q. When we put the money down for this bike, it was still in the crate. The guys at the shop (family owned shop btw) seem to have done a good job at putting it together, plenty of grease where it should be, plenty of oil in the sump, topped off the master cylinders, no lose bolts, but i'm wondering if they bled the brakes. I've been pondering bleeding the brakes, just so that I know it was done right, but as you know, brake bleeding is a pain in the ASSSSS. What do you think? The brakes work just fine btw. The front brake lever feels a little soft compared to my last bike, but it'll stop the bike on a dime, no problem. No gripes with the rear lever.

 

[MTGunNut]

go easy on it for about, say 45Miles for good measures. Stay low in the RPMs, and allow warm up time.

After that, drive it normal, and dont forget to change the oil RIGHT after Break in.

 

[MTGunNut]

You people and your crazy pistons

I know for my car, the break in is really crazy. first 500 miles, <5k rpms. After that, shift at 7k...

Then after you pass 1500 miles, do whatever you want.

This is, of course, for a rotary, so I'm not 100% sure on your bike..

haha, wankels.

The wankel is a pretty ingenious design. :cheese:


7K, ha, my truck Redlines at 3200RPM.:rolling:

 

[CyberPitz]

haha, wankels.

The wankel is a pretty ingenious design. :cheese:


7K, ha, my truck Redlines at 3200RPM.:rolling:

rofl. Yeah, depending on the year RX7, it redlines at 7k, or 8k. Either way, they can all go to 8.5/9k revs. Quite nice.

 

[MTGunNut]

rofl. Yeah, depending on the year RX7, it redlines at 7k, or 8k. Either way, they can all go to 8.5/9k revs. Quite nice.

My grandma had one for a while. It felt weird to drive with the high rev wankel. I am so used to my low rev Cummins, I was afraid something would break.

 

[Moto]

Sinkoman,

Nah, synthetic oil is fine. Maxima, Motul, Castrol, it's all the same. As far as changing the oil filter, yes it is a good idea to change that every time you change your oil just for safety reasons. It's cheap insurance. However, if you'd rather not buy a new oil filter every time you change your oil, you can buy an aluminum oil filter for about $50 which you just clean with contact cleaner and re-use. That's what we do.

As for your brakes, it's not uncommon for the brakes to squeak a little, but it shouldn't do that once the brakes get hot. Your brake fluid should be fine if it's new. Look at your manual and it should tell you when fluid/brake pads need to be changed. You'll feel it when they need to be changed. Also, your manual should have a diagnostic chart that will list symptoms and give you a general idea of what's wrong if anything.

I don't know about your bike, but my Kawasaki came with an unextensive manual. We bought a more extensive one from Kawasaki and I think that would be a good idea for you to do as well.

Hope this helps. If you have any more technical questions, a good website to visit is www.thumpertalk.com. They have forums dedicated questions like these and there is always someone who can help you. In fact, this section of their forums is dedicated to your bike.http://www.thumpertalk.com/forum/forumdisplay.php?f=377

 

[sinkoman]

Sinkoman,

Nah, synthetic oil is fine. Maxima, Motul, Castrol, it's all the same. As far as changing the oil filter, yes it is a good idea to change that every time you change your oil just for safety reasons. It's cheap insurance. However, if you'd rather not buy a new oil filter every time you change your oil, you can buy an aluminum oil filter for about $50 which you just clean with contact cleaner and re-use. That's what we do.

As for your brakes, it's not uncommon for the brakes to squeak a little, but it shouldn't do that once the brakes get hot. Your brake fluid should be fine if it's new. Look at your manual and it should tell you when fluid/brake pads need to be changed. You'll feel it when they need to be changed. Also, your manual should have a diagnostic chart that will list symptoms and give you a general idea of what's wrong if anything.

I don't know about your bike, but my Kawasaki came with an unextensive manual. We bought a more extensive one from Kawasaki and I think that would be a good idea for you to do as well.

Hope this helps. If you have any more technical questions, a good website to visit is www.thumpertalk.com. They have forums dedicated questions like these and there is always someone who can help you. In fact, this section of their forums is dedicated to your bike.http://www.thumpertalk.com/forum/forumdisplay.php?f=377

Thanks for the oil change advice.

And i'm way ahead of you on that front, i've already got around 60 posts on thumpertalk.

 

[CyberPitz]

My grandma had one for a while. It felt weird to drive with the high rev wankel. I am so used to my low rev Cummins, I was afraid something would break.

Yeah, once you're used to driving a 4 banger/v6, then you notice a "1.3 liter" you think it's a slow POS. Yeah...when you realize there's no real danger of redlining...you are on Cloud Nine

 

[Vigilante]

How do you break it in? Rev that bitch and run the piss out of it. It's the only way to properly seat the piston rings.

http://www.mototuneusa.com/break_in_secrets.htm

"What's The Best Way To Break-In A New Engine??
The Short Answer: Run it Hard !"

You will find the Mustang and Camaro crowd advocating that site heavily. You may want to take it easy the first 50 miles or so, drain the oil, and then start driving the shit out of it. You'll want to go easy for the first miles just to prevent any excess metal scraps from the new bearings causing harm.

Xcellerate - I didn't read through your whole post becasue the first sentence was wrong. "Piston ring seal" - If you actually read past that phrase he's talking about the seal the piston rings make, not a piston ring sealent.

Pitz - Omg rotary. OMG i wunt 2 hav sex wit my rotary. . Reciporicating pistons > rotary.

 

[xcellerate]

Xcellerate - I didn't read through your whole post becasue the first sentence was wrong. "Piston ring seal" - If you actually read past that phrase he's talking about the seal the piston rings make, not a piston ring sealent.

even though my first point may have been about syntax you can read the rest of my post and see he doesn't seem to make sense; mainly this sentence:

How can such a small amount of spring tension seal against thousands of PSI (Pounds Per Square Inch) of combustion pressure ??
Of course it can't.

amazingly though...that's exactly how it works. Since the force of combustion has no effect on the rings ability to press outward creating a seal...zomg perpendicular forces. I find it funny how the engineers who designed and built the motors say to do one thing, and then this motoguy says 'do the opposite' and now people are believing him.

hey, here's another automotive secret; you don't need coolant. That's right, it only slows you down! I've built hundreds of motors and done hundreds of passes down the 1/4 mile and I've discovered that using coolant only slows me down. It's a thick fluid that requires energy to be moved through the motor, it also has mass and adds .5 seconds to overall time. Manufacturers may tell you that you 'need' coolant to keep your engine at proper operating temperature, but that's a lie. Since the motor is already at 180* that means the coolant is at 180* also, so all you're doing is passing hot coolant around through your system, by removing the coolant you're creating an 'air buffer' that is constantly being renewed from air flowing through your engine bay and into the coolant holes where your lines used to be attached.

Next week I'll teach you about the secrets of welding diverter valves closed, so you don't have to keep rebuilding boost! Stay tuned!

 

[MTGunNut]

Hey, any engine running off 1/2 it's workable parts *1 rotor!* and can hold at 9k RPMs for 5 minutes, and still turn off/on, then go for another 9k RPMs for 5 more minutes, and then start shooting fire out the tailpipe..is a good engine to me can't go wrong with 3 moving parts haha.

Im pretty sure they kick the wanker out of LeMons because it was TOO powerfull. It is quite an amazing little engine.

 

[MTGunNut]

Yeah, once you're used to driving a 4 banger/v6, then you notice a "1.3 liter" you think it's a slow POS. Yeah...when you realize there's no real danger of redlining...you are on Cloud Nine

It was quite nice, those little rotarys. We need more of 'em on the road.


lol, this is the engine I have.

not my pic, btw.

Truely amazing engine.

 

[Vigilante]

even though my first point may have been about syntax you can read the rest of my post and see he doesn't seem to make sense; mainly this sentence:



amazingly though...that's exactly how it works. Since the force of combustion has no effect on the rings ability to press outward creating a seal...zomg perpendicular forces. I find it funny how the engineers who designed and built the motors say to do one thing, and then this motoguy says 'do the opposite' and now people are believing him.

hey, here's another automotive secret; you don't need coolant. That's right, it only slows you down! I've built hundreds of motors and done hundreds of passes down the 1/4 mile and I've discovered that using coolant only slows me down. It's a thick fluid that requires energy to be moved through the motor, it also has mass and adds .5 seconds to overall time. Manufacturers may tell you that you 'need' coolant to keep your engine at proper operating temperature, but that's a lie. Since the motor is already at 180* that means the coolant is at 180* also, so all you're doing is passing hot coolant around through your system, by removing the coolant you're creating an 'air buffer' that is constantly being renewed from air flowing through your engine bay and into the coolant holes where your lines used to be attached.

Next week I'll teach you about the secrets of welding diverter valves closed, so you don't have to keep rebuilding boost! Stay tuned!

EDIT: Nevermind.

 

[sinkoman]

Well, i've not been running the piss out of it, nor have I been taking it easy. I've just been riding it like it was a 4 year old bike.

Just changed my oil and filter today, stuff was black as tar. My uncle also told me to stick with natural even after i've broken in the engine, because it's a hell of a lot cheaper, and you can actually see it break down.

Reminds me, I need to retorque my drain bolt. I changed the oil at my friends house, and he didn't have a torque wrench, but told me it should be fine so long as I snug it up pretty good.

 

[Vigilante]

Well, i've not been running the piss out of it, nor have I been taking it easy. I've just been riding it like it was a 4 year old bike.

Just changed my oil and filter today, stuff was black as tar. My uncle also told me to stick with natural even after i've broken in the engine, because it's a hell of a lot cheaper, and you can actually see it break down.

Reminds me, I need to retorque my drain bolt. I changed the oil at my friends house, and he didn't have a torque wrench, but told me it should be fine so long as I snug it up pretty good.

I wouldn't worry about that. As long as it's hand tight and not leaking it'll be fine.