Epic VP can '$*^& off', says Cliff Harris.

[T-6000]

Harsh words by Indie developer, Cliff Harris:

http://www.computerandvideogames.com/article.php?id=256059

At the risk of getting alot of flak from Epic fans, I don't blame Harris. Mark Rein has really been arrogant. Lately he claimed that Epic is still a PC development studio, but the only thing they released for the PC since 2007 so far is the Unreal Development Kit.

 

[<RJMC>]

what about unreal tournament 3-oh right........

 

[Deleted member 56031]

wow what a prick! :flame:

I could name loads of indie devs that have produced far more creative or indeed worthy games in general than your generic space marine garbage :flame:

*goes to play penumbra*

 

[63]

"Basically I started making the point, and mark was also agreeing about how someone can email you as an indie dev, and you can reply personally back to that potential customer, and hopefully, that way you have converted that guy to buying the game.
At this point, there was this derisive snort from this guy in the front row, who said something to the effect of ‘one guy? who cares, that's a waste of time'. He then started to lecture us on how that's a silly way to do it. I'm 95% sure that all four of us on the panel thought ‘what the ****?' as well as ‘who is this guy'? compounded by Robin asking him if he worked in marketing.

Anyway… it turned out this guy was Mark Rein from Epic, although he seemed to assume everyone within earshot knew exactly who he was, and why he must obviously be right. I got the impression he was there to laugh at the little guys, or to just inform us how we are all wrong. Interestingly, it seemed there was someone from sports interactive (one time indies, as I recall) there, who seemed more on the indie wavelength than Mark. It would have been cool to chat with him.
So… I've given this a lot of thought, and weighed up the pros and cons of just putting this down to misinterpreting someone, and so on, and I have reached this conclusion.
Mark Rein is a jerk."

http://kotaku.com/5588678/indie-dev-says-epic-can-fk-off

Good thing Epic hasn't made a game in the last 10 years worth buying.

 

[Shakermaker]

Since July seems to be about devs and publishers calling each other names, I kinda expect August to bring us wrestling matches.

 

[Barnz]

only Epic game I like is the original Unreal.

 

[Ennui]

I still love Epic because they made the first Unreal Tournament but everything since then has been a waste of time.

 

[kupocake]

Worth pointing out that Rein was involved with taking Epic from being a small shareware team to being what they are today, so it's not like he's entirely unjustified in sitting in on a meeting of minds for the Indie lot... it's just that, his idea for so called 'micro-development' is always going to involve making it bigger.

No surprise that Rein find emails amusing though. IIRC, He ****ed up several times through them back in the Unreal Tournament 2 days.

 

[BabyHeadCrab]

Gears of War amused me for a couple hours. But yeah, **** Epic, they easily could make money capitalizing off of Steam and releasing games appropriately multi-platform and optimized. The epitome of a formative PC Dev taking the ol' BK style bait n' switch.

I just rock in a fetal position crying each night that nothing remotely akin to the brutality and grittiness that is Unreal Tournament (99), will happen again. I league played it quite frequently, won a bit of money, had the lucky chance to take on Fatal1ty (he shat down my throat), and ruined a lot of LAN party morale with that sick and twisted cem of a MP shooter.

Let's have a moment of peace. Quaker style.

The saddest shit on earth is that everyone has more or less given up on modding new PC releases. Many even laugh at the idea of "software development kits", they've become a trite and seemingly overly expensive feature which damages IPs and revenue flow.

We can look forward to becoming game console in the near future, even if it's purely the decision of game developers/publishers.

The hardware industry for custom PCs is becoming less and less comparatively profitable when considering inflation, last I heard.

Yet folks like Bioware, Valve, and donation based games are making a bit of a comeback. We need more free to use open source development platforms, more games releasing with mod support, server community, and integration into major networks instead of separate ones--preferably Steam, in this bro's opinion.

 

[T-6000]

http://kotaku.com/5588678/indie-dev-says-epic-can-fk-off

Good thing Epic hasn't made a game in the last 10 years worth buying.

Epic's titles have always been a hit or miss with me, either I'll like them or not. The original Unreal was so so for me, while I liked the idea and setting I also didn't like the tech problems with the launch version (though patches fixed most of the tech problems later), the confusing level design, and the lackluster feel of the weapons. Return to Na Pali at least fixed the problem with the confusing level design, and I liked this expansion better than the original Unreal game. Unreal Tournament, I *LOVED* this game and played the hell out of it for almost the first half of the 2000s. Unreal 2 I surprisingly liked it despite the Skaarj being put in the back in terms of story. Unreal Tournament 2003 I didn't like, and 2004 wasn't much better for me. Unreal Tournament 3 I thought was better and UT2003/2004 and I liked it, but at this point I was already burnt out of UT games. UT3 was just the same old UT game that I had been playing for nearly a decade, despite Epic promising that it would feel different from past UT titles. Yeah right. I could tell that this one was given the back seat treatment in favor of the Gears of War series. And speaking of their GOW series, I played it when it finally came out on the PC and I loved it! And I think I'm one of few PC Gamers that actually liked it. I'll even go as far as to say that it was their best game since Unreal & Unreal Tournament. Too bad the buck stops with Gears of War in terms of PC support.

It's unfortunate that Epic have turned their back on the PC since late 2007 and that the only title with their logo on it that is coming to the PC is Bulletstorm. And this title is being made by People Can Fly. And it's also unfortunate to see how their egos and arrogance has skyrocket to Pluto ever since Gears of War. I use to respect Epic alot, but lately the higher ups have made my teeth cringe, shake my head, and ask myself "Why did I bother to support these guys from the beginning?" Can you imagine how it would be if the higer ups of Valve started to act this way?

 

[the cow says moo]

I have some respect for Epic for supporting smaller companies like Chair Entertainment and People Can Fly.

 

[Matorbogl]

 

[Kaptain H]

Dude, normally I try to be as professional as possible, especially when talking about game dev related stuff, since it's such a small industry, but seriously.

I actually met Mark Rein once, and he was just as big of a stuck up douche as you might imagine to a few of my acquaintences, right in front of me. Also, a former classmate of mine was working on an UT3 mod last year which was asked by one of the companies showing at Austin GDC to have their work displayed on the expo floor. They were all ready to fly down from Canada, until Rein called the lead personally and forbid him to show it because of some loophole with not having a professional license (several million dollars.) Then he berated him, and asked why anyone would possibly care to see his little mod. All while supposedly being a huge champion for unreal mod community. The whole company has an air of pompousness about them that I find professionally appalling.

So, I'm not surprised. I've also heard from the grapevine that he's a huge coke head.

 

[T-6000]

Dude, normally I try to be as professional as possible, especially when talking about game dev related stuff, since it's such a small industry, but seriously.

I actually met Mark Rein once, and he was just as big of a stuck up douche as you might imagine to a few of my acquaintences, right in front of me. Also, a former classmate of mine was working on an UT3 mod last year which was asked by one of the companies showing at Austin GDC to have their work displayed on the expo floor. They were all ready to fly down from Canada, until Rein called the lead personally and forbid him to show it because of some loophole with not having a professional license (several million dollars.) Then he berated him, and asked why anyone would possibly care to see his little mod. All while supposedly being a huge champion for unreal mod community. The whole company has an air of pompousness about them that I find professionally appalling.

So, I'm not surprised. I've also heard from the grapevine that he's a huge coke head.

Not surprised to hear about your meeting with him giving you a bad impression on him, as well as your friend. Many people online who have met him have said that Mark Rein is a total arrogant ass(hole).

And I'm real sorry to hear about what your friend had to put up with. It must have been pretty demoralizing for Mark to talk down on him.

A couple of new updates on the incident.

http://www.bluesnews.com/s/112268/cliffski-epic-follow-up

Cliffy B of Epic has his own take on the situation (via twitter), saying "I haven't spoken with Mark today, but I'd wager he thought the comment was silly that only indy devs reply or interact to customers.". It's true that some larger name developers also listen to their customers and reply, but sadly Epic isn't one of those developers. And Mark Rein didn't have to be rude and heckle the man while he gave out his speech if he didn't agree with him. Also, Cliff Harris recently tweeted "I got a reply from Tim Sweeny, which is kind of cool, and I hope just draws a line under it so everyone can just make games now ". I wonder what Sweeny said to him?

In other posts people have said that Harris overreacted to Get some attention, to "Stick it to the man", or to get people interested in his independent company. I *REALLY* fail to see how he wanted to get some attention or to take this chance to stick it to the man? Harris got real angry that Mark Rein acted arrogant and rude, and he has every right to be. Would they like it if someone kept heckling them at a speech, especially from someone who thinks they are such big shots? And people aren't criticizing Epic because it's the cool thing to do, it's because they're extremely arrogant. I swear, lately Epic's fanatics have become as sad and pathetic as Dume Nukem Forever fanatics.

***Update***

Ok, this is what Sweeney said to him:

http://www.computerandvideogames.com/article.php?id=256162

He apologized on behalf of Mark Rein, but Rein is still an ass.