Episode 1 - The Wrong Game for Alyx?

[Max35]

*sigh* stubborness. An attachment to the character is the most potent form of urgency, in combination with other elements, almost like a synergistic reaction. Sure they could have removed Alyx, but that would have made the sense of urgency next to meaningless.


EP1 could have been improved in other areas, sure. If anyone thinks they can come up with a better reason why Alyx shouldn't have been present throughout EP1, or a suitable replacement, I'll listen. But until then, I'll stand by Valve's superb decision in including Alyx.

Perhaps I'm being too critical of this concept. But I don't know how else Valve could have constructed a deep sense of urgency without Alyx, or another important character, at your side.

 

[heer0]

Playing cooperatively with a friendly NPC by your side was exactly the point of Ep1. The whole game was designed for that purpose so she can follow you and do specific tasks. As Valve confirmed they had to sacrifice some realism and the feeling for urgency for the sake of a better gameplay.
I think with this thread we're going nowhere. What's the purpose of analyzing and re-anayzing something already done and greatly approved? And besides, Valve had their playtesters who provided them with feedback.
I suppose it's the boredom that makes us so touchy. Valve, hurry up with EP2 before we torn the hell out of your games, lol!

And i really, really , really hope that someday people will turn more attention on the commentary tracks in Ep1. So instead of asking "Why is this like that?" or "This doesn't look very real!", just listen and you will be explained.

 

[Asknoone]

Let's see, if City17 was destroyed completely, there'd be no gameplay. You don't have gameplay when there's not a single building remaining standing. It wasn't overrun with wildlife because of performance issues. HL2 scales well to different PC systems. Systems on the weaker end slow down when there are many enemies. If you had antlions crawling around by the dozens everywhere you go and the occasional pack of zombies, it would kill this scaling. Those of us with the new dual-core processors and latest series graphics cards would enjoy it, the rest not so much.

Ok, now you are resorting to being silly, and not putting anything interesting forward. Obviously if the City 17 you visited in Episode 1 was little more than a huge pile of rubble there would quite obviously be no gameplay. I'm saying this in a very sarcastic tone, by the way p). The idea of a more war torn City does not require every building you come across to be caked in rubble. For instance.

Buildings could have been more damaged; there could have been more evidence of the street war in the shape of barricades, destroyed roads, perhaps even a Strider carcass that's toppled into a building. There's whole load of ideas regarding the subject, but there aren't many in game, and most of the time it's simply the City 17 you saw before.

Ok. No, it was not about performance issues. Sure, there is most certainly a limit when it comes to how much you can put on screen at any given time, but the Antlions were given a limit because of the gameplay scenarios they took place in. Alyx-player gameplay. Now, I'm not saying it was bad - I loved it. But they were pretty lax, and there could have been more evidence of them effectively 'invading' the City because in Episode 1 it hardly felt like a problem at all.

To truly keep the evacuation feeling, it would have to be really, really fast - the game itself would have to be very short. That's the bad point. I've been evacuated by security personnel before, and it is fast. If evacuation is the game, it has to be very, very short, and no one would enjoy Ep1 if it were an hour and a half long.

Of course it wouldn't. There's a way to suspend the players belief in that he has to get out as soon as possible, and to allow him the freedom to look around at his own leisure. Believe it or not, this is most certainly possible without destroying the illusion. It doesn't have to be really, really fast, it simply needs to be 'fast' and not 'slow'. Were talking about a scientist fleeing a City in ruins, not security personnel getting you out of a building. I'm simply saying there could have been more tension there, and if Alyx was not by your side throughout the City section the level design would have changed to allow the player to move more seamlessly, and this in itself would evoke the feeling of urgency.

Abandoned? Well, contrast the city you see in Urban Flight with the city you see in Point Insertion. In Point Insertion, there are people in the streets and everything. In Urban Flight, the city IS much emptier. Yes, it's not as empty as it should realistically have been, but here, again, realism is sacrificed for gameplay. Having a few groups of rebels adds to gameplay, and gameplay trumps realism. Always.

12 hours on from the Citadel explosion, and then throw in an entire week of fighting. Most rebels would have already escaped during that week, or in the night. Were not talking about realism here, were talking about atmosphere and completely missed opportunity. After all this time I'd expect the city to be empty, and it would most certainly put across the feeling of "Shit, I'm alone here." I don't see how the rebels add to the gameplay at all, given how poor Exit 17 was.

Besides, I do not see why the city should be completely in rubble by then. The Citadel is still standing. From the story perspective, only a few hours pass between you entering the Citadel for the first time (Our Benefactors) and emerging into the city again (Urban Flight). You saw what the city looked like in Anticitizen One. Some streets destroyed, shells falling on the city, etc. why exactly should it be completely destroyed a few hours later? It hasn't been nuked or anything. Still, you see barricades (could've been a couple more), you see streets destroyed, the suppression field is clearly down, some buildings are destroyed completely... isn't that enough destruction for the several hours you've been out of the city?

A few hours? No, were talking about 8-12 hours here. Gordon enters the Citadel in the afternoon, reaches the tip as the sun is setting and wakes up some time in the morning. Not a few hours. 8-12. And no, I don't think it is. I was most certainly expecting the City to be in state it looked at the end of Follow Freeman.

Why not? Give me one reason why these sections aren't quite the same with Alyx if you absolutely ignore her and run and gun.

I'm going to pick the obvious one. Because the gameplay you are playing is cooperative gameplay, and whether you run and gun or not you are still restricted in a way you wouldn't have been if she weren?t there.

 

[Jintor]

I personally think the reason for the sense of urgency was being chased by the fsking Hunter-Chopper throughout most of the mission. When I temporarily downed it for the first time I was like, SCORE! Now I can handle everything else!

Then it came back...

 

[Solver]

Sh*t! Lost the post that I was typing! Will come back when I get over being pissed at it .

 

[Asknoone]

Ahh, what a bummer. Hate it when that happens.

 

[xirow]

I agree, Episode One could have been so much better. But I don?t think Alyx was the problem.

 

[TheHamster22]

Fuction9, that would have been seriously cool, but possibly difficult to implement.

Can you guys imagine a whole game that was onna timer? Scarey thought. >>

Well, maybe Valve will hear our whining complaints and use ub3r st34m t3ch to make sure non-urgent Episode 1 never even existed.

I believe its called Prince of Persia

 

[Solver]

Okay, take two .

Ok, now you are resorting to being silly, and not putting anything interesting forward. Obviously if the City 17 you visited in Episode 1 was little more than a huge pile of rubble there would quite obviously be no gameplay. I'm saying this in a very sarcastic tone, by the way p). The idea of a more war torn City does not require every building you come across to be caked in rubble. For instance.

Buildings could have been more damaged; there could have been more evidence of the street war in the shape of barricades, destroyed roads, perhaps even a Strider carcass that's toppled into a building. There's whole load of ideas regarding the subject, but there aren't many in game, and most of the time it's simply the City 17 you saw before.

Ok. No, it was not about performance issues. Sure, there is most certainly a limit when it comes to how much you can put on screen at any given time, but the Antlions were given a limit because of the gameplay scenarios they took place in. Alyx-player gameplay. Now, I'm not saying it was bad - I loved it. But they were pretty lax, and there could have been more evidence of them effectively 'invading' the City because in Episode 1 it hardly felt like a problem at all.

Sorry Samon, being silly is simply not something I ever resort to on purpose online to make a point .

I agree on barricades, strongly. We saw them, but there really could have been more. Not so sure I agree on destroyed roads. Most streets seen had some sign of damage. Sometimes it was simply a big-ass hole in the middle of it, sometimes it was more subtle, but there had hardly been an undamaged street in Ep1. I will again agree that some more "special" damage could've been there, like the dead Strider you mention or something. Maybe a street blocked off by 2-3 smoking destroyed APCs.

The antlions were limited for gameplay reasons when you interact with them. Although the limit was actually higher - you and Alyx can handle more antlions than you could alone. But the performance reasons kick in with antlions that could simply be there for damage. Roaming the rubble within your sight but mostly outside your reach, without you interacting with them. That's performance reasons right there.

Then again, it was pretty clear that the city was being invaded. In HL2, there hadn't been a single antlion in the city. The Combine walls and other security measures kept the wildlife out. In Ep1, the antlions popped up in the streets, below the city, etc.

This makes me think of Point Insertion. While Point Insertion made it clear that the Combine are oppressive, I really wish there had been another scene showing their regime in the chapter. Same here - Ep1 made it clear that the city was being invaded, but there could be a big scene to underline it further.

Of course it wouldn't. There's a way to suspend the players belief in that he has to get out as soon as possible, and to allow him the freedom to look around at his own leisure. Believe it or not, this is most certainly possible without destroying the illusion. It doesn't have to be really, really fast, it simply needs to be 'fast' and not 'slow'. Were talking about a scientist fleeing a City in ruins, not security personnel getting you out of a building. I'm simply saying there could have been more tension there, and if Alyx was not by your side throughout the City section the level design would have changed to allow the player to move more seamlessly, and this in itself would evoke the feeling of urgency.

To be honest, I'm simply very surprised you feel that way. Maybe this can be attributed to personal differences. In Water Hazard, the chopper chasing you was plenty urgent - immediate threat. Here, though, we're talking about a feeling of urgency that should last 4-5 hours, however long it takes you to get through the game. You can't, for gameplay reasons, constantly threaten the player with choppers and gunships. Other than that, for me the only way to create a real feeling of urgency is to have a character that I care about with me.

It's the same in real life, in fact. I have a much greater feeling of urgency if I am with a loved one and not alone. If I get, say, caught in a storm, the storm will give me a much greater feeling of urgency if I'm not alone. I feel responsible for the safety and well-being of the person I'm with because I care about him/her.

Really, this may be a difference on the personal level. But to me, tension and urgency when you have a looming threat is greater when you're with someone you care about. Of course, as it has been said, urgency is a different thing than isolation.

12 hours on from the Citadel explosion, and then throw in an entire week of fighting. Most rebels would have already escaped during that week, or in the night. Were not talking about realism here, were talking about atmosphere and completely missed opportunity. After all this time I'd expect the city to be empty, and it would most certainly put across the feeling of "Shit, I'm alone here." I don't see how the rebels add to the gameplay at all, given how poor Exit 17 was.

Rebels are a gameplay element. There are fights when you're alone and fights when you're with Alyx. Then there are fights when you're also with rebels. It's a different type of fighting, so it makes sense to keep the opportunity to do so. Oh, and I also like it when I see the rebels fight Combine. Seeing AI characters fight is fun.

I don't think Eixt 17 was really poor, although I'm sure that Valve made a really big, big mistake with their AI for the chapter. I may be a fairly experienced and good playtester, but I am baffled as to how any playtester Valve had could have missed it. The mistakes made there with the AI are simply incompatible with the quality we've come to expect from Valve.

Still, if Exit 17 worked the way it should have, it could've been a very tension and urgency-filled part of the game. For the same reasons I mentioned above. Here you have a bunch of citizens that you need to get to safety. You're the sole person responsible for their safety and it's up to you to get them safely to the evacuation trains. That should give you a feeling of responsibility and tension. Ep1 is about characters - it plays on emotions towards these characters to create feelings.

A few hours? No, were talking about 8-12 hours here. Gordon enters the Citadel in the afternoon, reaches the tip as the sun is setting and wakes up some time in the morning. Not a few hours. 8-12. And no, I don't think it is. I was most certainly expecting the City to be in state it looked at the end of Follow Freeman.

Okay, think back to before Gordon enters the Citadel, to when he is in the security nexus. At that point, the Combine defenses are working fine. There's no wildlife entering the city and the whole integrity is preserved. Striders are roaming the streets and the city has taken light damage from shelling. 12 hours later, give or take a couple, numerous buildings in City 17 have been destroyed completely, ash from the Citadel is falling and the whole sky is dark, antlion burrows have opened up in streets and below them, even an Antlion Guard is in the city, Dr. Kleiner has replaced Dr. Breen, whose whereabouts are unknown, on the screens. The streets are damaged in some way, Combine soldiers themselves have been turned into zombies because of the headcrabs pouring in and whatnot. Hmm. I honestly think that, some details notwithstanding, that's enough events for less than a day. Again, there could've been some better signs of it all, dead Striders or greater structural damage in the hospital, but by and large, it seems enough.

I'm going to pick the obvious one. Because the gameplay you are playing is cooperative gameplay, and whether you run and gun or not you are still restricted in a way you wouldn't have been if she weren?t there.

I don't get this. If you run and gun ignoring Alyx, how are you still restricted? The traces of the coop gameplay are gun. She's simply still shooting, that's it. Coop gameplay is when you cover each other, etc. - this being how Ep1 was meant to be played. But it's quite gone if you ignore her.

An important footnote, of course, is that Ep1 would have been completely different without Alyx. Obviously, one of the first decisions made about the game was that you'll be with Alyx. And the levels were built with that in mind. So without Alyx, all the areas would have been different and it would be a completely different game, with different areas. I can't say if that'd be for better or worse, though everyone here seems to agree that Ep1 is a piece of rare quality.

Phew!

 

[Max35]

I agree, Episode One could have been so much better. But I don?t think Alyx was the problem.

Bingo...on the last count, anyway. Alyx wasn't the problem. She was restrictive yes, but she didn't stop the sense of urgency. The sense of urgency comes from within. It might be slower-paced in the fact that you have to make sure Alyx is keeping up with you but the SOU is made by the constant pourings-on of tension, which can be made with or without Alyx.

 

[Asknoone]

Some good points Solver, I'll reply later.

 

[Solver]

Let it be said here that I like you and always enjoy a good, civilized and mature discussion with people who know what they're talking about !

 

[Bill Lumbergh]

*sigh* stubborness. An attachment to the character is the most potent form of urgency, in combination with other elements, almost like a synergistic reaction. Sure they could have removed Alyx, but that would have made the sense of urgency next to meaningless.


EP1 could have been improved in other areas, sure. If anyone thinks they can come up with a better reason why Alyx shouldn't have been present throughout EP1, or a suitable replacement, I'll listen. But until then, I'll stand by Valve's superb decision in including Alyx.

Perhaps I'm being too critical of this concept. But I don't know how else Valve could have constructed a deep sense of urgency without Alyx, or another important character, at your side.

Agree completely. Seems to me Episode 1 was Alyx's game; her presence should have (and did, apparently) trump any other considerations. They could have done it better, but leaving her out would have made the whole thing kind of hollow, imho. And Ep2 would be too late to start working on that connection, wouldn't it?

 

[Chabo]

And lose the chance of gazing at the beautiful graphics, exploring everything, even the slightest detail?! No no no...The player should have all the time they want, to play the game and see everything they want in this masterpiece called Half-Life 2, not just rushing from a scene to a scene.

Valve did a good work on it. The player is supposed to fight the bad guys along with Alyx, not just saving his *ss out of the city.

It's the storyline adapted to the gameplay, not the gameplay adapted to the storyline.

I agree with you, not those assholes who beat the game in 2.5 hours and complained that they got "ripped off". My first run through the game took eight hours. My second run (with commentary on) was still six hours. I play Valve's games to explore. If I wanted a timed game, I'd play Solitaire.