Episode 2 reveals new enemy?

[Vass]

No one's saying it's not true, we're jsut saying how improbable it is. Do you really think that the Hunter is a Houndeye synth? And I mean seriously? To me it sounds like an idea unthought about and just thrown out here. It's probably just a Combine wildlife synth we've never seen before.

 

[pomegranate]

No one's saying it's not true

Are you sure?

It so, so isn't.

 

[Glenn the Great]

No one's saying it's not true, we're jsut saying how improbable it is. Do you really think that the Hunter is a Houndeye synth? And I mean seriously? To me it sounds like an idea unthought about and just thrown out here. It's probably just a Combine wildlife synth we've never seen before.

I seriously think so. That was the first idea that popped in my head when I saw the Hunters in the Ep2 trailer, and it still makes a lot of sense to me.

I really don't believe that Hunters are just miniature Striders. Look at how they move around. Hunters are fast and agile, capable of making a brisk hopping run. Striders' movement on the other hand is slow and careful, moving one leg at a time to get around, as if they were wearing stilts.

I'm willing to say that maybe the Hunter isn't a Houndeye, but I would never say that it is a small version of a Strider. And what about the green eyes? The Striders don't have those.

 

[Darkside55]

First off, the claim "the strider isn't a creature, it's a synth" and "strider + something = synth" doesn't mean we haven't seen the real strider. Obviously the strider looked something like its current synth form, or why else would the Combine use it? Saying that is like saying they could eventually turn humans into giants with laser cannon heads and back thrusters. It doesn't work that way. A synth is a modified evolution of the creature, and thus you can get an approximation of how it looked before it was synthesized.

And listen, I know it sounds like I'm being close-minded and trying to shut people down here, but I'm just thinking logically. Don't get me wrong, I always try to encourage the flow of ideas, because sometimes something that might sound silly at first could turn out to be a really great idea or even just the process of brainstorming might produce something good, but this isn't one of those cases, people. I'm sorry.

No, I'm not brain-linked to Valve. I don't always know what they're thinking. I won't argue with you that I'm arrogant p), but really this is one of those times where they're spelling things out in the clearest terms possible. In my opinion it is the people who think the hunters are houndeyes that are being incredibly close-minded. Consider the fact that you have mounds of evidence for hunters being strider young:

1. Their model name, ministriders.
2. Their look, color scheme, and weaponry.
3. The fact that they operate in a pack with a strider and communicate with the strider, and I'm going to assume it's their job to flush you out so the big guy can take you down.
4. The fact that the PC Gamer article already refers to them as "brethren of the strider." Don't you think they would've asked Valve about that?
5. The fact that we know synths can self-replicate.
6. A picture of a synth, not a strider, but another synth pictured in RtB showing its smaller offspring, further backing up fact 5.

And let's look at what we have for the houndeye:

1. Three legs.
2. Pack animal.

That's the most circumstantial evidence ever. It shouldn't even be called evidence. It's like...hey, see this dog? It has four legs, I bet it's related to that cat. I bet the cat is related to that bird because it has four appendages, and even though two are wings it could just be modified limbs. This is a case of trying to make the piece fit the puzzle, when it doesn't. I'm not being close-minded just for the sake of wanting to say, "I'm right look at me you're all stupid and you should consult me before you post." I'm saying you guys are wrong because for God's sakes, you're WRONG. It's ok to be wrong, people. Everyone's wrong sometimes. I've been wrong before. But this houndeye = hunter theory, this is wrong.

I just can't understand why people are holding on to this as a possibility. It makes no sense. Furthermore is it really a big deal that the synths aren't tied in to Xenian lifeforms? Lord knows all the Combine we've seen so far, save for the Overwatch and shelled headcrabs, has come from a different planet and are entirely new creatures.

 

[pomegranate]

1. Their model name, ministriders. (well they are small striders, doesn't mean they can't be derived from Houndeyes or that they're the same species as the Striders)
2. Their look, color scheme, and weaponry. (true, but do we really think the natural version of the strider has a plasma cannon?)
3. The fact that they operate in a pack with a strider and communicate with the strider, and I'm going to assume it's their job to flush you out so the big guy can take you down. Um, part of the 'assimilation', perhaps
4. The fact that the PC Gamer article already refers to them as "brethren of the strider." Speaking figuratively - they are like the striders. Not neccessarily meant to mean they're related
5. The fact that we know synths can self-replicate. And so the earlier lifestage of the Strider hunts/attacks in a totally different manner? I don't think so.
6. A picture of a synth, not a strider, but another synth pictured in RtB showing its smaller offspring, further backing up fact 5.

None of that actually goes against the possibility of the Hunters being adapted houndeyes.

1. Three legs.
2. Pack animal.

Yes, just on that basis, many people have suggested the Houndeye theory (/sarcasm):
3. Similar proportioned torso. Looks a lot to me like a Houndeye's body with the legs swapped out and an armoured panel on the top.
4. Same slightly awkward but fast gait. Same waving it's head down and to the sides. Similarly light on it's feet - jumping.
5. Dull yellow torso


Also I think you should bear in mind: Why would Valve didn't intend for there to be a link between the Houndeyes and the Hunters, why would they have carried on with a design that is so evocative of them?

I just can't understand why people are holding on to this as a possibility. It makes no sense.

Because it would be NEAT. Sure it would make sense, why not?
Perhaps the combine have adapted the houndeyes for the sake of their intelligence and hunting ability, rather than physiological qualities? Try having a bit of imagination.
To be honest I'm not particularly convinced either way, I just don't think there's enough proof to rule out either theory and I don't like to see false 'proof' being given as a 'definitive' argument.

 

[ríomhaire]

Humans have more in comon with Vortigaunts than Houndeyes do with Hunters.

 

[Eejit]

My thoughts exactly -
the strider is Something + Synth = Strider
As we don't know what that Something looks like, we can't really say how unlikely it is that a Synthed Houndeye would look like the Hunter. Could well be that the elements common to the Strider and the Hunter are all the artificial, added elements, and that the 'source' creature for the Strider looks very little like the Strider itself.

If the source creature for the strider may resemble it "very little" then why do you think hunters are modified houndeyes? Couldn't they just as easily be modified bullsquids, mantas, Gargs or *gasp* a race we have never met and probably never will?


Just because we disagree with you doesn't mean that we're "closeminded" or unimaginative...

 

[pomegranate]

Humans have more in comon with Vortigaunts than Houndeyes do with Hunters.

Humans aren't synths. Next!

 

[Hectic Glenn]

Look at the legs of the hunter again, Glenn. The hunter's legs are segmented, with overlapping shell carapace and forward-bending knee connected to long foreleg. The hunter has the same simian leg design as the strider, leading with its elbows when it moves. Two long claws, pointing backwards up toward the body, meaning that it's positioning on the "stump" of its feet, as a strider would.

You know when i said small inconsistances, this is what i meant? I cannot believe people will go to the above lengths to disprove something with something i find hard to call evidence! They would look the same as the combine mutate things in similar ways! (which is why its called a mini-strider).

The legs are 2 at the front with 1 at the back, like the houndeye. The Strider is 3 legs directly down like stilts, very different. Also don't say it doesn't fit with the story because you don't know what tangent the story will take after each episode, most theories are just that, theories and speculation, like this one here.

The lack of ability to be open minded to possible theories like this worries me, i don't understand why people are so hell bent on proving it wrong...

 

[Darkside55]

Hectic, I was actually talking to the other Glenn there. I'll refer to you both by your first names so there's no mixup. I don't understand what you're talking about "the legs are 2 at the front with 1 at the back;" strider legs are exactly the same.

The reason I'm adamant about this is because it's silly. Like I keep saying, proponents of this theory are trying to tie two things together that don't belong. It's not innovative and it's not plausible, it's just one of those theories that someone throws out and you have to say, "No, sorry, that's just not right."

Pomegranate you're being ridiculous now. I'm not close-minded and I'm not unimaginative. In fact, it's quite the opposite...I have an over-active imagination and believe me I run through like eight million theories a day, but you don't hear but like one or two of them from me at any given time because some of them just DON'T WORK. I recognize a flawed theory when I see it.

And tbh, you're being obstinate here. Everything I posted was evidence, and you still say it doesn't rule out houndeyes because...what? "Just because they're like striders doesn't mean they are striders," and "hunters move differently and have different behavior?" These are aliens we're talking about...these are creatures that could go through multiple lifecycles, ESPECIALLY given the fact that they've been modified to do so! If you want an unmodified example look at the classic headcrab. Vastly different behavior from start to finish, the only uniting theory being "get food."

Furthermore the hunter body looks nothing like the houndeye's body. They are also not dull yellow, I don't know where you got that from. Lightness on its feet is simply because of kinetics...it is a small creature with long legs (far, far longer than those of the houndeye), and because of its compact body and center of gravity the thing has to adopt a certain style of movement. Any given tripod creature with a similar makeup that has evolved to be three-legged would move in a similar pattern, I guarantee it. This is simply the way their bodies would work.

In addition, there's only certain ways you could animate such a body. Did you ever think the way it's sweeping its head is because maybe it's...hunting? The houndeye's movements is actually a reflexive shivering.

And the ministrider isn't evocative of the houndeye, it's evocative of the strider. Do you know that one of the original designs for the strider had its gun emplacement on top, so that its head resembled a giraffe? And do you also know that that particular sketch had a small lens eye on it?

This isn't a neat theory. It would not fit. I dunno, at this point I'm sure nothing will convince you outside of a letter to Valve. I'd consider mailing it myself but I'm sure they'd look at it with eyebrows raised and question how anyone would think a ministrider came from a houndeye when it's called a ministrider, has similar legs to a strider, similar shell to a strider, runs with striders, communicates with striders, is called the brethren of the strider, synths are known to self-replicate, the strider came from a completely different world...and basically putting that up against, "Hunters and houndeyes have three legs and they hop around and shake. In a pack. And they have eyes!" Really...I think you're just trying to defend this theory either to be different or to pretend like you're super open-minded to all theories or something, but in essence dude if you really were to step back and look at it I think you'd realize how wrong it is. You might not admit it on here but deep down, you KNOW you're wrong. Sorry.

But hey, ask Valve if that'll clear the whole thing up for you.

 

[huntingbear]

Hunters Are Human Babies!!! I Said It!!! There!!!

 

[J-Rotten™]

Is Episode two coming out later this year or next??

 

[Ennui]

Humans aren't synths. Next!

Neither are vortigaunts. What's your point?

Also, are the Hunters not called "ministriders" in the SDK/modelviewer?

I haven't kept up with this discussion, so I might be talking out of my ass, but I think it's kind of apparent that the Hunters are just another synth.

Is Episode two coming out later this year or next??

Set to be in 2006, so probably around Christmas.

 

[jimmyjam]

Humans have more in comon with Vortigaunts than Houndeyes do with Hunters.

ah, I see where you're coming from
vortigaunts are the synth versions of humans!
from the future!

also they're gordon!




GORDON'S VOICE IS THAT OF LOU GOSSETT JR.

what a day, gentlemen

 

[A Big Fat CoW]

Just adding some fuel to the proverbial fire, but the ministrider's sound files do sound somewhat reminiscent of a houndeye's. It's definitely "synthefied", but the vocal patterns are very similar.

The ministrider's alert2.wav sounds similar to the houndeye's he_alert3.wav, and the houndeye's he_die3 has a similar pattern as the ministrider's alert4 (the kind of... purring sound, don't know how else to describe it)

Also note that striders don't have eyes, yet hunters have three.

Another thing is that the PC Gamer article claims that the hunters are very expressive, showing a range of different emotions. Striders don't show any form of emotion; in fact, no creature does throughout both HL1 and 2... except for the houndeyes.

None of this is evidence, of course, but you have to admit that there are some similarities. Otherwise we wouldn't be arguing about it

 

[jimmyjam]

a strider has no eyes, a hunter has two, and a houndeye has one compound eye
slamdunk!

 

[Darkside55]

ah, I see where you're coming from
vortigaunts are the synth versions of humans!
from the future!

also they're gordon!




GORDON'S VOICE IS THAT OF LOU GOSSETT JR.

what a day, gentlemen

I like you. I like you a lot.

I thought I should just point out that I sat and rewatched the Episode Two trailer again, not for purposes of this thread but rather just because I was browsing Youtube to show off a couple HL2 scenes and machinimas to a friend of mine, and I noticed that hunters do not leap at save for attacking. In the scene where one lone hunter joins up with its pack (and a strider with them), it is clear that the hunters move with the gait of a gorilla. Here is the video:

Episode 2 trailer

Please note the way the hunter uses its forearms to dictate its movement, leading with its elbows. The back leg is used to adjust movement and stabilize. Also note that the hunter can move horizontally without having to adjust its body.
In contrast, the houndeye moves by pushing off the ground with its legs and takes successive hops toward its destination. If they are capable of walking I don't recall ever seeing it, and furthermore the houndeye has to adjust its whole body to move sideways...it actually has to turn sideways to move sideways, facing that direction. Houndeyes are also more frisky creatures and have a movement style to match; they are not particularly intimidating in their motions nor are they graceful. The hunter not only moves with a walk that conveys purpose but also a sort of strength that the houndeye lacks. And since we know the striders were supposed to, again quoting Raising the Bar, "convey a simian power," and the hunters move like gorillas, well...I think that about closes the lid on any pro-houndeye arguments relating to their movement.

I will take a listen to the ministrider's sounds, Cow. They are in the Episode One gcf? Thanks for bringing that to light. I'll take a listen and compare them with the houndeye's sounds.

Ok, don't usually like to make consecutive posts...it bothers me. But I have to make an exception in this case because I've gone over the soundfiles and I have to say that they are, unfortunately, nothing alike. You see the houndeye makes a variety of high-pitched noises...chirps and whistles, for example. During its harmonic attack it also adjusts its frequency, makes a very resonating sound. Death noises are whimpers. The only deviation in these high-pitched sounds are some "rooting" noises, like sniffing around, taking deep breaths.

Now the ministrider has these sounds that are like a sudden blare of a klaxon, and a rumbling noise that lowers into a...well, a sort of curdling noise, more broken. These two sounds correlate DIRECTLY with two noises made by the strider! Ministrider alert2.wav sounds exactly like the strider's alert2.wav, simply at a higher pitch as would be generated by a smaller creature. It is the same horn-like warning. Play ministrider alert4.wav and strider alert4.wav and you will see that they are the same noise, the strider's deeper due to its size and therefore larger and more powerful voicebox. Exactly the same sounds, EXACTLY the same sounds.

Also of some importance is the fact that the hunters have very strong, plodding footsteps despite their size and apparent grace of movement. Anyone know of another creature like this? Tall, lanky, but has a real powerful step despite its slow and deliberate movements?

Thank you again for bringing that to my attention, A Big Fat Cow (boy I feel like I'm insulting a guy who just gave me a tip off). I do believe that this puts the nail in the coffin, friends. Let us never speak of houndeye = hunter again, because it has been proven:

FALSE!

 

[Asknoone]

Darkside wins the competition.

 

[Eejit]

Hooray!

Wow, strange how Darkside thought to compare ministrider sounds to those of the Strider as well as Houndeyes. I didn't expect that given how closeminded and unimaginative he is. [/sarcasm]

 

[jimmyjam]

let's hold hands

 

[Asknoone]

Naw.

 

[jimmyjam]

hey you're not darkside

 

[[GD]raziel44]

yes