episodic or full games

[Jerry_111]

Seems like episodic is failing, as episode 2 seems to be taking just as long as a full game would be taking to complete.

I say full game. Bring on HL 3!

 

[giant384]

dude this is valve we are talking about...
episodic content isnt failing at all. its a great idea and instead of waiting for a huge game to come out; we just get it in small portions. valve works hard on thier games and work until they think its ready to be realeased. other game companies will rush the game and it will either be crap or full of bugs.

 

[morgs]

Vavle said they regretted not doing it in one big game but they've come too far to stop now.

 

[MJ12]

I am glad they did it episodic, it develops the story better, like Star Wars or LOTR. Plus it gives us something to look forward to.

They do have to work a bit faster though, but still, I respect them for taking their time to develop a good game.

It also would have been too much like HL2 to make the episodes HL3.

The only downside (for us) is that Valve makes more money this way.

 

[Operational]

Seems like episodic is failing, as episode 2 seems to be taking just as long as a full game would be taking to complete.

Half-Life - Nov 1998
Half-Life 2 - Nov 2004
Episode One - Jun 2006
Episode Two - Oct 2007
Episode Three - late 2008/early 2009

Don't know about you but I prefer the gaps HL2 -> Episode One and Episode One -> Episode Two to the 6 year gap between HL and HL2.

Vavle said they regretted not doing it in one big game but they've come too far to stop now.

I have never heard them say that. What they have said is that they will do a full review on how well the episodic system works after episode three is released.
Without episodic gaming we would never have gotten Portal and would probably have to wait even longer for Team Fortress 2.

The only downside (for us) is that Valve makes more money this way.

How do you figure that? Did you feel Episode One or the upcoming Black/Orange box was/is not value for money?

 

[giant384]

they have seperate teams working on each episode.

 

[leib10]

I am glad they did it episodic, it develops the story better, like Star Wars or LOTR. Plus it gives us something to look forward to.

They do have to work a bit faster though, but still, I respect them for taking their time to develop a good game.

It also would have been too much like HL2 to make the episodes HL3.

The only downside (for us) is that Valve makes more money this way.

Agreed on all points. I'm not going to be waiting another 6 years for HL3 to come out.

 

[AJ Rimmer]

Brilliant idea but they're not really executing it as well as one could hope. Better than waiting six years, yes, but not the "every six months" episodic delivery we were told about.

 

[GMK]

episodic by far i mean it took 6 years 4 half life 2 i aint waiting dat long 2 play the next part and dey are releaseing every year it is gd idea the epiodic dey jus needda sort the release dates out but dey always turn out great anyway so fare traid.

 

[AJ Rimmer]

episodic by far i mean it took 6 years 4 half life 2 i aint waiting dat long 2 play the next part and dey are releaseing every year it is gd idea the epiodic dey jus needda sort the release dates out but dey always turn out great anyway so fare traid.

My... my eyes!

 

[Narvi]

My mind automatically censors everything GMK writes. Thank you, mind!

It'd be nice if episodic affairs were simply something added to one big package. Like, say, if Portal was added to Half Life 2: Episode 1 and 2 (assuming they were in one package...) That should make everybody happy. What Valve's doing with the Orange Box seems good enough, though.

 

[delusional]

If you want a full game just wait until episode 3 comes out. Then play all three episodes at the same time for the first time.

 

[Operational]

My mind automatically censors everything GMK writes. Thank you, mind!

You're a smarter man than I.

 

[Asknoone]

Episodic is not failing as this is not episodic. Valve are releasing smaller games within a shorter period, that's all. If they went full game they'd taken even longer as Valve invests alot of effort into tuning/polishing to ensure that your money is well spent.

 

[soulslicer]

dotz, i just stating that gmk was slanging so much as compared to others and i got a warning from samon..

 

[Asknoone]

Everyone in that thread got a warning.

 

[Shift]

Episodic by far, you think waiting from June last year to October this year was bad enough? Try waiting from November 2004 to November 2010. The difference is extraordinary.

 

[Narvi]

You're a smarter man than I.

It's a skill.

I wonder whether MMORPG peeps will start using the episodic shtick for their expansions. I recall Everquest making a bundle with its constant, cheap addons. Say... like 10 dollars a pop, released six-monthly. Each one releases independent realms.

 

[nokori3byo]

An interesting aspect of the Episodic content can be seen in how Valve always includes technological tweaks with each new episode to keep up with newer, next gen games. I wonder how many of the delays can be chalked up to implementing these new effects.

 

[xX NoTe 2 SeLf]

im thinking the 3 episodes will wrap up the story surrounding half-life2 and the combine and then there will be a half-life3 about something new

 

[GreatEmperor]

Could go on for more than that

 

[MJ12]

How do you figure that? Did you feel Episode One or the upcoming Black/Orange box was/is not value for money?

Well, lets figure, I spent 40 bucks on HL2.

Spent twenty on ep 1.

So twenty, plus the 50-60 bucks that orange box is going to cost ( i hear there is no black box? I dont need HL2 or ep1 again!) and then another 20bucks (or more?) when episode 3 comes out.

Thats about 90-100 bucks as compaired to buying one game for 40 bucks. So yes, they do make more money.

 

[giant384]

Well, lets figure, I spent 40 bucks on HL2.

Spent twenty on ep 1.

So twenty, plus the 50-60 bucks that orange box is going to cost ( i hear there is no black box? I dont need HL2 or ep1 again!) and then another 20bucks (or more?) when episode 3 comes out.

Thats about 90-100 bucks as compaired to buying one game for 40 bucks. So yes, they do make more money.

blackbox will be sold on steam only. also your paying for portal and tf2 so dont htink its one game. also i believe the next episode will be 6-8 hrs instead of the 3-4 in ep1.

 

[bigburpco]

Well, lets figure, I spent 40 bucks on HL2.

Spent twenty on ep 1.

So twenty, plus the 50-60 bucks that orange box is going to cost ( i hear there is no black box? I dont need HL2 or ep1 again!) and then another 20bucks (or more?) when episode 3 comes out.

Thats about 90-100 bucks as compaired to buying one game for 40 bucks. So yes, they do make more money.

If you were to consider the 3 Episodes as a game then you would 4 games, all of a good quality, at a measly 22.50 each. Plus there's still freebie-ish games included such as HLDM:S.

 

[Stene]

HL2 took long because they had to make the engine. But now they have it done and so, I don't understand wtf takes so long. You can't even say Ep1 is episode, it was so little. And how they lie with the speeds, saying that the average playtime for Ep1 was something like 5-6 hours. That was big lie.

Ep2 will be probably 5 hours, they just like to say that it is near 10 hours.

They should make games you can't beat in one day, like FEAR that took me over week and Stalker that I've played almost 100 hours for now.

 

[Rapstah]

saying that the average playtime for Ep1 was something like 5-6 hours. That was big lie.

The average playtime for EP1 was five and a half hours. Just because you speedran the game doesn't mean everyone did.

 

[Stene]

The average playtime for EP1 was five and a half hours. Just because you speedran the game doesn't mean everyone did.

No I didn't, I searched some places and so, and looked at stuff on streets and so.

 

[Rapstah]

Well, the average user finished it in exactly 5 hours and 38 minutes.

 

[Asknoone]

I don't understand wtf takes so long.

Polishing, tuning, polishing. More game companies should learn to do it. I find it slightly retarded when people mumble about how long it takes when really, it's so that your money is well spent.

You can't even say Ep1 is episode, it was so little.

You're right, you can't, because an actual episode would be shorter.

And how they lie with the speeds, saying that the average playtime for Ep1 was something like 5-6 hours. That was big lie.

Average play time for Episode 1 was 4-5 hours. Where's the lie? That was exactly it.

They should make games you can't beat in one day, like FEAR that took me over week and Stalker that I've played almost 100 hours for now.

Stalker is a completely different game in every sense. Quality > Quantity. Now I'm not saying that games should be short, but in actual fact the shorter the game, the better you can hone in on quality. Some of the best games ever made have been too long, too drawn out (Half-life 2 is an example of this), and speaking from experience it's far, far better to go for the shorter approach in order to truly tune and polish that quality.

Stalker lasts 100+ hours because it isn't a deliberately linear, cinematic experience. That isn't my type of game, but I'm sure if you want to go play a game that is that 100+ hours you'd play the likes of Stalker. If you're looking for that in Half-life, you've got the wrong game.

 

[leib10]

Well, the average user finished it in exactly 5 hours and 38 minutes.

That's pretty much how long it took me on Hard.

And yes, making a game too long degrades the overall quality since there isn't enough time for playtesting and genuine consideration given to improving the quality of the game. Episode One was good in this regard because it wasn't too long, so the developers had more time for playtesting and other considerations, making it a very good overall product.

 

[ríomhaire]

I don't have a huge preference either way, but episodic gets stuff to us faster.

 

[xX NoTe 2 SeLf]

Polishing, tuning, polishing. More game companies should learn to do it. I find it slightly retarded when people mumble about how long it takes when really, it's so that your money is well spent.



You're right, you can't, because an actual episode would be shorter.



Average play time for Episode 1 was 4-5 hours. Where's the lie? That was exactly it.



Stalker is a completely different game in every sense. Quality > Quantity. Now I'm not saying that games should be short, but in actual fact the shorter the game, the better you can hone in on quality. Some of the best games ever made have been too long, too drawn out (Half-life 2 is an example of this), and speaking from experience it's far, far better to go for the shorter approach in order to truly tune and polish that quality.

Stalker lasts 100+ hours because it isn't a deliberately linear, cinematic experience. That isn't my type of game, but I'm sure if you want to go play a game that is that 100+ hours you'd play the likes of Stalker. If you're looking for that in Half-life, you've got the wrong game.

How dare you, sir, say that half-life 2 is too long.

 

[Asknoone]

Well, it is. There's parts of Water Hazard that are just the exact same 'drive forward and watch out for mines'. And Sandtraps is a whole bunch of repetition.

 

[xX NoTe 2 SeLf]

i guess ur right there ... but it still leaves u wanting more

 

[Kadayi]

I think the episodic model is a good one. It allows Valve to evolve their technology according to hardware developments, and it means they are able to respond to player feedback much faster. The engine they have it pretty scalable, and as can be seen from any of the steam user surveys the vast majority of gamers aren't running behemoth games machines. With certain other developers it's a case of 30 quid for the game and another 300- 500 quid on hardware upgrades to play it.....

Certainly the episodes are short, but in terms of quality of experience they are on a different realm compared to longer games like Stalker or Oblivion. I like stalker, I think it's very atmospheric, but none of the NPCs are particularly well rounded or interesting. They are just walking talking mouthpieces rather than characters I care about. With EP1 I was constantly checking to make sure Alex was ok in the firefights which was a novel experience to say the least. Also big games require large amounts of spare time to play and not everyone can sink 100 hours into a game. Much as I love them, my enthusiasm for the GTA games normally goes way before I reach the end of them...too long and too demanding.

 

[Operational]

Episode One was good in this regard because it wasn't too long, so the developers had more time for playtesting and other considerations, making it a very good overall product.

I get the urge to play Episode One more often than I get the urge to play HL2 and I think it is because it is shorter.

 

[soulslicer]

episode 2 will have a very high re playability since many different things can happen every time u play again due to the expansive environments and improved ai. thus, episodic is better..

 

[leib10]

I get the urge to play Episode One more often than I get the urge to play HL2 and I think it is because it is shorter.

That's true too. For me, I think HL1 was too long, and could've done without a chapter or two. HL2 was getting long, but not to the point where it got dreary and irritating. It is better for when you're in the mood to finish the game in a few sittings. Episode One is perfect for just playing straight through the average 5 and a half hours.