Ethical Treatment of Animals in Meat Industry

[ríomhaire]

I know it's not realistic at all for this to happen in the next few decades. But I don't think so much cell cultures (though that is really interesting) but if genetic engineering makes good progress we could be designing animals for better meat production.

 

[lefty]

I wonder if deers is tasty.

 

[Krynn72]

Not from what I've heard. Heard its its really tough to chew also. A friend of mine says his neighbor hit one with his car and then cooked it and offered him some.

 

[jet_porkins]

Should we change the law to ban 'factory farming' of chickens and the such? Ensuring that no animals spend their short lives in misery and squalor?

I believe so.

Pussy.

 

[VirusType2]

Don't be a troll, man. Solaris is the Beastmaster.

Would be cool if your mom was locked in a cage about the size of her body for her entire life, forced to donate her eggs to science, then cut open and used for medical experiments were she was no longer fertile?

I didn't think so. Pussy.

 

[Raziaar]

We did it with slavery.
Just make it illegal, becuase it is morally wrong.

The fact that you're mentioning it in the same breath as slavery is astounding.

 

[Solaris]

Not from what I've heard. Heard its its really tough to chew also. A friend of mine says his neighbor hit one with his car and then cooked it and offered him some.

Venison? It's ****ing amazing.

 

[CptStern]

haha oh solaris. you have a knack for deflating your own credibility whenever you jump on the activist bandwagon du jour

"ZOMG DOWN WITH CRUELTY TO POOR DEFENSELESS CHICKENS!!!

hey lets go hunting!"




even if you ate venison that was store bought from a farmer that gently killed the deer with pillows you have to appreciate the irony of the state you just made. ok so what's the girl's name you're trying to impress with this latest incarnation of rebel hipster solaris?

 

[15357]

You cruel man, give him his meds back, the meds that cured him from the virus of communism.

 

[Solaris]

Lol Stern, my uncle ran over a deer and took it home to eat. Was truly amazing in some red wine sauce. I think we had it on boxing day last year actually.

 

[CptStern]

Lol Stern, my uncle ran over a deer

soft downy pillows placed ever so gently over the deer's muzzle ...





so what's her name?

 

[VirusType2]

We need to breed animals that want to be eaten.

I just don't think this received the proper attention. Not only hilarious, this is a ground breaking postulation. Well within the realm of possibility with gene tampering.

Going from that, we can also speculate the possible removal of pain perception, though genetic research.

 

[Farrowlesparrow]

I stole it from Douglas Adams.

 

[The Monkey]

We did it with slavery.
Just make it illegal, becuase it is morally wrong.

Most of the cruelest practices are already banned within the EU, the problem is how to enforce these laws.

 

[jverne]

my ideal on how "my" world should be is...alot less inhabited by humans and more animals, so i can hunt in the wild without destroying the biosphere. i'd eat alot less meat than now, but at least it would be well earned and dignified for both "participants".

and i'd hunt not with a gun but a bow. makes the playing field much more level.

 

[Vegeta897]

my ideal on how "my" world should be is...alot less inhabited by humans and more animals, so i can hunt in the wild without destroying the biosphere. i'd eat alot less meat than now, but at least it would be well earned and dignified for both "participants".

and i'd hunt not with a gun but a bow. makes the playing field much more level.

Well why don't you go time travel to somewhere around the time the bow was invented and have fun.

The rest of us will be over here progressing like humans have been doing since we've inhabited this planet.

 

[VirusType2]

And don't forget your cheat sheet - http://www.irintech.com/x1/images/jean/TimeMachineCheatSheet.jpg

 

[Saturos]

Whether or not I agree depends on how you define "ethical treatment".

If it involves degrading meat quality in any way then no. Besides, it's even more cruel to give these animals a false sense of TLC anyways before the day when the butchers come to harvest their souls. Mua ha ha!!

I luv raw bloody meat btw. It appeases the animal inside. Rawrrr!!

and i'd hunt not with a gun but a bow. makes the playing field much more level.

Bring a knife to a gunfight much? What if a grizzly were to come after you? Would you just drop your bow and shit your pants hoping that the grizzly would mistake the smell for a dead carcass? All because, "YOU WANTED TO LEVEL THE F***ING PLAYING FIELD?!?!"

It's mankind's ingenuity that put humans on the top of the food chain.

 

[VictimOfScience]

I have been vegatarian for a few years now and am in the process of going vegan. I've done this for ethical reasons. That is to say, I cannot further justify the torture/slaughter of another living being for food or to satisfy any other human desire. I do not personally believe there is any such thing as "ethical meat." I don't believe it would make a difference to a victim's family if you told them that once you stole their son away from them he lived a seriously protracted but otherwise healthy and natural existence up to the time when you slit his throat and let him bleed out.

I think that the reasons for NOT eating meat FAR outweigh the reasons FOR eating it:

First and foremost in my mind are the animals themselves. The conditions in industrial feedlots and intensive farming plants are horrendous in the extreme. In feedlots, cattle stand knee deep in their own excrement. In dairy farms, cows are anally and vaginally violated so that they can keep producing milk. Once they birth a calf, if it is a boy it is sold as veal and killed perhaps within 10 days. An HSUS undercover video from a veal slaughterhouse in Vermont just made headlines for being one of the most cruel and illegal operations in the country (that we know about). A USDA inspector was found on the tape poitning out that skinning one of the calves alive would not be tolerated by other inspectors and the plant would be shut down. He then allowed the torture to continue. Newly born pigs are immediately separated from their mother and castrated by hand without anesthetic. The are forced into tiny pens where they cannot exhibit any of their species-specific behavior and often go mad and become severely depressed. 99% of the meat produced in this country is produced under these conditions.

Not only are animals abused in the processing of their bodies for consumption, the environments around the feedlots/slaughter facilities are abused thanks to the vast cesspools of urine and feces the animals produce. There are a number of large lawsuits against poultry and pork companies in the US right now due to pollution of watersheds that are becoming extremely harmful for humans that get their water from these areas.

Huge regions of forest are cut down in order to make room for more methane-producing beef cattle. The cattle industry in the US is the main reason the American West has become such a barren and denuded ecosystem devoid of much of its natural wildlife. The cattle (over)graze on the wildlife that other species need for survival. The ranchers seek to protect the cattle by destroying any other species that would threaten their "product." The beef industry is directly responsible for the collapse of the wolf, buffalo, and other wildlife populations in the West.

The fishing industry too causes huge damage to ecosystems and wildlife. Overfishing of cod over the last 50 years in Canada has caused its population to almost disappear. The fisherman are still as greedy as ever and have lobbied the Canadian government to allow annual seal hunts that kill over 300,000 baby harp seals under the guise of protecting the cod fisheries even though cod make up about 1/10 the diet of a harp seal. In the Pacific Northwest of the US overfishing has devastated not only populations of anchovies and sardines, but also those of sea lions and many sea birds that are now starving to death and washing ashore dead because they cannot find enough fish to sustain them.

The slaughterhouse workers are also effectively abused and mistreated while engaging in the daily grind. Meat-cutting is one of the most dangerous jobs in America with a 20% injury rate in 2001. Oftentimes workers only get health benefits after 6 months on the job so if they are injured before 6 months, they are out of a job. Worker populations are also made up largely of (illegal) immigrants because the company can hold that over their heads should they try to unionize and do something about their low wages and general poor treatment. No industry has been better at union busting than the meat industry.

The social cost of slaughterhouses is enormous as well. A new plant goes up in a small town and a large population influx occurs and the effects are felt in every aspect of community life: housing, health care, education, social services, traffic, crime, and more. The companies claim they want to hire local workers, but the gruesome and dangerous work proves unappealing to the townsfolk so migrants primarily from Latin America are brought in. A flood of low-income workers like this can prove too much for a small town to handle.

David Nibert writes, "The oppression of various devalued groups in human societies is not independent and unrelated; rather, the arrangements that lead to various forms of oppression are integrated in such a way that the exploitation of one group frequently augments and compounds the mistreatment of another." We have produced a sytem wherein we have devalued individual people and individual animals and when we exercise oppression over one we are effectively exercising it over the other. Such a system is something in which I want no part. In avoiding animal products I am voicing my feeling that all living beings have the right to their own existence.

 

[VirusType2]

The 'Tasmanian Tiger' was driven all the way to extinction because they feared it would eat their chickens. This wasn't really true.

The only film:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6vqCCI1ZF7o

This 1921 photo by Henry Burrell of a Thylacine with a chicken was widely distributed and may have helped secure the animal's reputation as a poultry thief.
In fact the image is cropped to hide the fenced run and housing, and analysis by one researcher has concluded that this Thylacine is a mounted specimen, posed for the camera

 

[Solaris]

In avoiding animal products I am voicing my feeling that all living beings have the right to their own existence.

Well put.

 

[jverne]

Well why don't you go time travel to somewhere around the time the bow was invented and have fun.

The rest of us will be over here progressing like humans have been doing since we've inhabited this planet.

no actually, what i'd like is to have a modern society that has some elements of natural/primal lifestyle.
can't describe it right now since i don't even have the the idea down.

And don't forget your cheat sheet - http://www.irintech.com/x1/images/jean/TimeMachineCheatSheet.jpg

holy shit that's awesome, i've read the whole thing. very informative

Bring a knife to a gunfight much? What if a grizzly were to come after you? Would you just drop your bow and shit your pants hoping that the grizzly would mistake the smell for a dead carcass? All because, "YOU WANTED TO LEVEL THE F***ING PLAYING FIELD?!?!"

It's mankind's ingenuity that put humans on the top of the food chain.

if a grizzly attacks me...such attacks are not that common as you'd think and besides there are things like bear mace, stun guns basically less than lethal weapons.
considering how many hunters are out there, bear attacks are not that widespread.

sure it's ingenuity, i never said i'd go bare handed. i'd use a compound bow which is a decent compromise between modern and old technology.

it's obvious you don't like such challenges...i like them, who are we to judge each other?
IN MY OPINION procuring your own meat is more dignifying than buying it from animal factories (ok the animal dies either way, but sometimes you feel better about it)...same goes for everything else, achieving something on your own is incredibly more rewarding. sure you can't make a Quad core CPU on your own, at least not yet. but hunting/breeding your own meat is achievable.

i'm not demanding that you understand this logic or adhere to it, but this is how it is.

on a side note...sometimes doing something that is not too comfortable might seem a drag at the moment but when looking back you can see it as an experience and it can be rewarding.
example: camping in the cold, wet,... might not be that idealistic actually it's pretty annoying. but when i look back at the cold nights, food poisoning, mud baths...i feel kinda proud of making trough it.
sitting behind a computer in a warm room, eating store bought food might be really comfortable, but frankly i feel quite miserable and depressed and at the end of the day i am like...WTF did i do today??
you might like it, but it's not my ideal.
this summer i went rock climbing, almost got stuck in a crevice 50m above ground...got really scared and i mean really...as in almost starting to panic in fear for my life.
did it deter me from further climbing....hell no...next year i'm probably gonna do the course to get a official license (which is mandatory if you're climbing without someone who hasn't got an instructor license).

same goes with the bear encounter, there is a huge chance you'll walk out alive and well (unless you're really out of luck by startling a momy bear with cubs) and if you do you'll have a story to tell and an experience to remember.
it's just how i envision my life, sure i might die and that would suck big time, but hey growing a belly, being stressed out at work, becoming bald way before my time and eventually dying from cancer or something is not exactly fun either.

the only thing i'm really pissed at myself is that i talk too much and do too little but that probably makes each experience much more sweet.


(wow, talk about personal confession lol)

 

[repiV]

In avoiding animal products I am voicing my feeling that all living beings have the right to their own existence.

A proposterous fantasy, since all living things continue their existence by eating other living things.

If you don't approve of meat that's produced in a certain way, don't eat it. Clearly most people don't share your opinion, otherwise it wouldn't exist.

That's democracy for you.

 

[VictimOfScience]

A proposterous fantasy, since all living things continue their existence by eating other living things.

I don't know how preposterous it is. A couple hundred years ago it would have been incomprehensible to think of whites and blacks eating at the same table, women bossing men around in business, and children not being forced into manual labor. Yes, we all eat living things to survive, but when that thing is another sentient creature I draw the line.

If you don't approve of meat that's produced in a certain way, don't eat it. Clearly most people don't share your opinion, otherwise it wouldn't exist.

I personally don't approve of meat produced in any way. All slaughter is cruel and violent and I refuse to be a part of it. True, most people don't agree at this point, but as we continue to share this relatively fragile planet with more and more people, I cannot help but be hopeful that people will start to see that the current system is not sustainable to feed 9 billion people properly. It cannot currently handle 6 billion. The lack of compassion for animals is symptomatic of the greater lack of compassion that we have for our fellowman. I see nothing wrong with trying to engender more compassion in this world.

I am making the choices that I am making because I am (as Gandhi said) being the change I want to see in this world. People ask me if I think I am really making a difference at all; how much difference can one person make? I tell them that it only took one person to sit at a diner counter, or one person to not give up their bus seat to bring about a monumental cultural shift in thinking about the hierarchies of oppression that so many of us take for granted every day. These hierarchies apply to both human and non-human animals and the more people who fight to destroy these systems, the closer we come to realizing a world where everyone can exist in peace.

 

[CptStern]

A proposterous fantasy, since all living things continue their existence by eating other living things.

plants =/= animals. there's whole species that survive exclusively on plant life

If you don't approve of meat that's produced in a certain way, don't eat it. Clearly most people don't share your opinion, otherwise it wouldn't exist.

That's democracy for you.

ya sure in a over generalized, stringing two disparate ideas together kind of way. how is the consumer to know whether the food in front of them came from a factory farm or not. even if it originated from a factory farm there's no way the consumer could tell at a glance whether it's from a factory farm that goes beyond the mandated guidelines or if it's the type of farm that's featured on a 60 Minutes expose segment on the farming industry.




the only sure way is to shop for food raised/processed locally but that's not always feasible and it's much more expensive. even then there's no labeling detailing how the animal was treated nor what conditions were unless specifically stipulated by individual farms

the very core of the problem (at least in canada but it's a pretty universal concept) is that animals are still considered property. the law assumes that individuals are responsible for their property's well being. so the law only really steps in when the law is broken. the industry is mostly self regulated but must abide by guidelines mandated by the government

 

[Raziaar]

In avoiding animal products I am voicing my feeling that all living beings have the right to their own existence.

Well put.

Their own existence on my dinner plate.

 

[jverne]

the whole institutionalized animal cruelty is really a consequence of the abrahamic religions. they said animals are here to serve us. in other religions/cultures some animals were considered holy and were treated like such.

meat is here to stay for a long time and the largest consumptionists of meat are rednecks/trailer trash/... who don't give a **** how their meat is produced in the first place.
no offense to you Raz dear.

coming to a compromise with people who can reason is easy, it's those that can't which are a huge obstacle on the road.

 

[Raziaar]

the whole institutionalized animal cruelty is really a consequence of the abrahamic religions. they said animals are here to serve us. in other religions/cultures some animals were considered holy and were treated like such..

Just because they revere one animal as holy, doesn't mean they don't kill and eat other animals just as we do.

Religion isn't a factor at all in consumption of meat in my opinion. The way animals are treated today as a food source that isn't treated very well is simply a result of corporations.

 

[15357]

You know, perhaps before condemning the treatment of animals, maybe we should consider how destroying the meat industry as we know it is good for us.

 

[CptStern]

pretty sure he's referring to Hinduism; they're by definition vegetarians but there's varying levels of adherance to the religious traditions like any other reigion, for example some hindi eat seafood or chicken. and the sacred cow thing is more about the cow being a central figure in their religious history

 

[Raziaar]

You don't have to lecture me on how my worshipers respect and revere me!

 

[CptStern]

You don't have to lecture me on how my worshipers respect and revere me!

thankfully the non-religious amongst us can still worship you by dousing you in bbq sauce and putting you over an open flame for 20 mins.

 

[VirusType2]

You know, perhaps before condemning the treatment of animals, maybe we should consider how destroying the meat industry as we know it is good for us.

Well, we already know all the reasons. It's a huge waste of farmland (the same space to feed 1 with meat can feed dozens with vegetation), it's a methane overdose for the environment, the antibiotic problem that VoS mentioned, the inhumane animal treatment, diseases that are transmittable to humans - there are plenty of reasons.

The only reason meat is a good thing is for the protein content. But cow's milk also has a high protein content, as do nuts and beans.

 

[VictimOfScience]

as do nuts and beans.

...and broccoli and oats and loads of other non-animal sources that a lot of people wouldn't think of. You can live very happily and healthily on an all plant diet. Plus there is something much more cleansing about taking a dump that you know is just plant matter running through you in a very natural way. :E

 

[nurizeko]

Love it, I tucked into a Matterson's smoked pork sausage just as I began reading this.

If you want to make up reasons as to why you don't eat meat (don't like the taste/over-sensitive nutjob who cant bear the thought of something fluffy and 4 legged dying but you'll tuck into a tomato even t6hough its basically the un-germinated young of a plant i.e. LIFE) thats your choice, as long as your cool about it and don't lecture me on my dietary habits its all good.

I don't have any problems with allot of lifestyle choices (even if I may think they are based on shoddy reasoning/ideology) its when people feel the need to spread their stupid ideas that it becomes an issue.

*Goes back to chowing on his reprocessed pig*

*BURP*

 

[CptStern]

Love it, I tucked into a Matterson's smoked pork sausage just as I began reading this.

If you want to make up reasons as to why you don't eat meat (don't like the taste/over-sensitive nutjob who cant bear the thought of something fluffy and 4 legged dying but you'll tuck into a tomato even t6hough its basically the un-germinated young of a plant i.e. LIFE) thats your choice, as long as your cool about it and don't lecture me on my dietary habits its all good.

I don't have any problems with allot of lifestyle choices (even if I may think they are based on shoddy reasoning/ideology) its when people feel the need to spread their stupid ideas that it becomes an issue.

*Goes back to chowing on his reprocessed pig*

*BURP*

I don't have any problems with allot of lifestyle choices

(even if I may think they are based on shoddy reasoning/ideology)

I don't have any problems with allot of lifestyle choices

its when people feel the need to spread their stupid ideas that it becomes an issue.

I don't have any problems with allot of lifestyle choices

..don't like the taste/over-sensitive nutjob who cant bear the thought of something fluffy and 4 legged dying but you'll tuck into a tomato even t6hough its basically the un-germinated young of a plant i.e. LIFE


I don't have any problems with allot of lifestyle choices

*Goes back to chowing on his reprocessed pig*

*BURP*


as long as your cool about it and don't lecture me on my dietary habits its all good.

 

[VirusType2]

Basically.

Also, plants don't have brains; they don't feel pain, they aren't even aware of their own existence.

EDIT: In fact I was watching this (old) BBC series on plants (waaaayyy more interesting than it sounds. crazy evolution) and a large portion of plant life relies on their fruit being eaten, to spread their seeds over a larger area. Animals who eat these fruits effectively become planters for them. There are even some plants that cannot survive without this help from animals. In one example, the help gets the seeds out of the shade, where they don't have a chance.

IN OTHER WORDS, THEY WANT TO BE EATEN. :huge smile:

 

[Eejit]

Yeah some plant species do need to be eaten. What an amazing revelation! Have a cookie.

Fact is that just like our crops most of our livestock bred for meat or dairy would absolutely fail at living in the wild. They rely on us having a use for them to exist at all.
If everyone was veggies there would suddenly be a few new species to put on the endangered list.

 

[VirusType2]

That's true Eejit. What an amazing revelation yourself! Pat yourself on the back.

Here's something. Imagine instead of all millions of acres of 'cow pies', farts, and exhalation, we'd have crops and plants that exchange C02 for oxygen.


Besides, you might have missed the joke about plants wanting to be eaten:

We need to breed animals that want to be eaten.

 

[VictimOfScience]

Fact is that just like our crops most of our livestock bred for meat or dairy would absolutely fail at living in the wild. They rely on us having a use for them to exist at all.

Wrong. With the exception of the broiler chickens who are grown at an insanely fast pace and the laying hens who cannot use their muscles and limbs properly due to their cramped quarters and wire floors, the meat we raise currently would be fine in the wild--at least as fine as other herbivores. Pigs, in particular, would fare quite well as they can become feral in a matter of weeks and begin to grow tusks and coarse fur. Cows can be extremely protective when in groups as well. Feed a cow with your hand while it is content and then imagine it and its mates being at all annoyed with you--you will be scared; they are huge.

The argument that they wouldn't exist if not to be eaten is bad as well since these species most definitely did exist before we domesticated them and would continue to exist and evolution would lead them to a new way of life once freed from the confines of our torturous industrialized system. In no time at all they would be hard to recognize as the same species.

Also, plants don't have brains; they don't feel pain, they aren't even aware of their own existence.

Exactly. They have not evolved sufficiently enough to try to avoid pain or cry out when their structural integrity is compromised. The whole "killing plants is murder too" argument is turned completely into rubbish when you consider that if such is the case, people should have as little trouble watching, say, veal calves being processed as they do tomatoes being harvested.