EU Constitution

[Evo]

I want to know what people think about the EU constitution. Blair will most likely hold a referendum on this issue and would people be in favour of sigining or not?

 

[15357]

i actually don't know what it is....

 

[short recoil]

It shouldn't personally effect me very much, the only thing would be laws that are formed.
I'd rather we stayed independant though, that way i have more control over what happens.

 

[Evo]

It says

The constitution brings together for the first time the many treaties and agreements on which the EU is based. It defines the powers of the EU, stating where it can and act and where the member states retain their right of veto.

It also defines the role of the EU institutions.

from BBC

 

[Feath]

It's a bit more than that.

It's funny because us Brits are against the Constitution because it would make us more like the French, and the French are against it because it's "An Anglo-Saxon model of Europe".

 

[The Monkey]

You should've made it more international, for example "Are you for or against the EU constitution?" But since the proposal falls if one country opposes it, I guess I'm for Britain approving it..

 

[Razor]

The constitution requires a "yes" vote from every member nation, which is very unlikely, so any British referendum on the point would be null and void when other European countries vote "no".

 

[The Monkey]

The constitution requires a "yes" vote from every member nation, which is very unlikely, so any British referendum on the point would be null and void when other European countries vote "no".

There're only 5 countries which will have a public vote on it, the rest will let the partimant vote. And since all parliament within the EU are for it, I think that it will pass. If not the french mess it up, that is.

 

[Razor]

There're only 5 countries which will have a public vote on it, the rest will let the partimant vote. And since all parliament within the EU are for it, I think that it will pass. If not the french mess it up, that is.

The British people are very mixed about it, as are a lot of people from a lot of EU countries. The chances of them getting a "yes" vote from all the EU nations is highly doubtful, so no matter what the UK votes, it still won't go through. Brussels needs to be brought far more into the spot light and to be made far more transparent.

 

[Evo]

Im currently doing some Politics work on the EU this is why im doing this poll+thread combo thing.

Blair wants France to make a decision first as it would let him off the hook. Last i heard in France the 'Yes' vote was winning

 

[The Monkey]

The British people are very mixed about it, as are a lot of people from a lot of EU countries. The chances of them getting a "yes" vote from all the EU nations is highly doubtful, so no matter what the UK votes, it still won't go through. Brussels needs to be brought far more into the spot light and to be made far more transparent.

There's a deep raft here too, whether to have a public vote or not. The the liberals want the parliament to decide, while the specialists want the people to decide. The liberals are really scared about a public vote, because last time we voted, about the Euro, 56% of the people turned it down, while 70% of the parliament would've voted for...

 

[KoreBolteR]

hello Evo .

i think its too early

 

[Evo]

Hey KoreBolter, you think we should wait for other countries to make a choice then?

 

[KoreBolteR]

well, let us all have referendums first..

arent france having one? i heard most of them wanted to say no..

but i suppose being a state of EU wouldnt be that bad, i hope we wont be stripped of all out powers tho.

 

[Evo]

i hope we wont be stripped of all out powers tho

yeah, thats why i don't wana join it

 

[Razor]

There's a deep raft here too, whether to have a public vote or not. The the liberals want the parliament to decide, while the specialists want the people to decide. The liberals are really scared about a public vote, because last time we voted, about the Euro, 56% of the people turned it down, while 70% of the parliament would've voted for...

That is a big problem, too be honest, i do not want the British people to vote on it or any common people for that matter, due mainly to stupidity and ignorance. The most damaging and destructive force in the universe is a large group of ignorant and stupid people.

 

[Feath]

That is a big problem, too be honest, i do not want the British people to vote on it or any common people for that matter, due mainly to stupidity and ignorance. The most damaging and destructive force in the universe is a large group of ignorant and stupid people.

You can't just say that people who don't agree with you are stupid or ignorant.

 

[Razor]

You can't just say that people who don't agree with you are stupid or ignorant.

It is not a matter of agreeing or disagreeing with me or anyone else, it is a matter if they understand why they're agreeing or disagreeing.

Some people believe that Gerhard Shroeder and Jacque Chirac are evil people who are the new Hitler and Stalin and want to take over England and force English people to speak French so will vote no.

How many English voters do you think have looked indepth enough into the single currency and the constitution to come up with an intelligent opinion on either?

 

[Some_God]

They dont want to sign it because they want to keep their money with the kings and queens on it (aka the pound) and not transfer to the Euro. I swear the Brits are greedy bastards... the only purpose of the royal family these days is for scandals and whatnot. THE OLD DAYS ARE OVER! Get over it!

/end rant

 

[kirovman]

It is not a matter of agreeing or disagreeing with me or anyone else, it is a matter if they understand why they're agreeing or disagreeing.

Some people believe that Gerhard Shroeder and Jacque Chirac are evil people who are the new Hitler and Stalin and want to take over England and force English people to speak French so will vote no.

How many English voters do you think have looked indepth enough into the single currency and the constitution to come up with an intelligent opinion on either?

I'm in agreement.

The best arguement I've heard from anti-constitution side is that "The Frenchies" will take over our sovereignty etc and we won't be able to decide our own laws. It's not like that at all.

If we are part of Europe, we have the power to influence it to our needs.
If not, we'll just end up a lonely island in the ocean who failed to embrace the 21st century and future because of quaint blindly patriotic traditional values.

And if we end up out of Europe, these people who voted no are going to find themselves unable to obtain their visas to visit Spain or France when they want to go for their holidays. I would laugh at that point.

 

[Angry Lawyer]

I'm pro-Europe. Yeah, we English are greedy gits, but being multi-cultural, I can see both sides of the argument.

-Angry Lawyer

 

[KoreBolteR]

They dont want to sign it because they want to keep their money with the kings and queens on it (aka the pound) and not transfer to the Euro. I swear the Brits are greedy bastards... the only purpose of the royal family these days is for scandals and whatnot. THE OLD DAYS ARE OVER! Get over it!

/end rant

what the hell are you on about?

your lookin at us stereotypically :/

will you be saying we all drink tea? talk posh? wear bowler hats next?

I'm pro-Europe. Yeah, we English are greedy gits, but being multi-cultural, I can see both sides of the argument.

-Angry Lawyer

your country might be, but the rest arent lol

 

[el Chi]

I'm in agreement.

The best arguement I've heard from anti-constitution side is that "The Frenchies" will take over our sovereignty etc and we won't be able to decide our own laws. It's not like that at all.

If we are part of Europe, we have the power to influence it to our needs.
If not, we'll just end up a lonely island in the ocean who failed to embrace the 21st century and future because of quaint blindly patriotic traditional values.

And if we end up out of Europe, these people who voted no are going to find themselves unable to obtain their visas to visit Spain or France when they want to go for their holidays. I would laugh at that point.

Bravo sir.
I don't pretend to know the exact ins and outs but, as far as I can see, the EU is too diverse in laws for this constitution to seriously "dictate" how we'll be able to govern ourselves. Pot is legal in the Netherlands (well, for all intents and purposes), alcohol prices are extremely high in Norway, there is no speed limit on the German Autobahn, and a thousand other differences in the laws between the countries. It's not as if the constitution is going to usurp sovereignty in that sense. There seems to be a lot of reactionism and blind nationalism. The EU is more about cooperation than assymilation.

 

[Edcrab]

There seems to be a lot of reactionism and blind nationalism. The EU is more about cooperation than assymilation.

Precisely. The uninformed masses are likely to jump on whatever bandwagon has the prettiest heraldry- and thus far the pro-departments aren't making a case that'll appeal to the naysayers.

Personally, the EU Constitution isn't half as revolutionary (or "destructive") as some have claimed- and so on that note I don't really care whether it's passed or not because very little will be altered. The main (and, in my view, only) bonus of its acceptance will be the unifying feel the EU can smugly project to the outside world.

It's unlikely to be passed anyway, and I really don't care too much what happens.

Although I must admit I can see why so many people despise what the EU stands for (or rather, what they tell themselves it stands for).

On the subject of British fish, for example- EU surveyors recommended we stop our intensive cod-fishing. We asked to allow our own research teams and governing bodies to make a decision on the subject- and we were denied.

Despite the fact that they had come to the exact same conclusion If it's about unification, at least let us keep up the pretence of total independance- our self-harboured image is almost as important to us as genuine freedom... the masses need their patriotism fix!

 

[pomegranate]

That is a big problem, too be honest, i do not want the British people to vote on it or any common people for that matter, due mainly to stupidity and ignorance. The most damaging and destructive force in the universe is a large group of ignorant and stupid people.

1,000,000 kudos points to you Sir, for having the balls to say that.
All the evidence you need to back up that statement is that the Sun is the best selling paper. Don't quite agree with the 'common' aspect, middle and upper class people can be just as ignorant and blind as the working class.

 

[Evo]

Cool, didn't think responses would be like this tbh, my politics group is fairly balanced on their views on the EU and everything else, seems that with a wider group people aren't as opposed to the EU and the constitution

 

[oldagerocker]

I'd happily vote if I knew exactly what the changes would be, the law changes and how it would affect me before hand. I honestly think nobody (the general public) knows anywhere near enough about it to make a proper decision. But if we're going to lead it and be a powerful, influencial nation within it, then im all for it.

 

[Razor]

1,000,000 kudos points to you Sir, for having the balls to say that.
All the evidence you need to back up that statement is that the Sun is the best selling paper. Don't quite agree with the 'common' aspect, middle and upper class people can be just as ignorant and blind as the working class.

Yes, sorry, what i ment by 'common' was people who aren't interested in politics rather then the lower classes of society.

The Sun is only the most popular newspaper because it is filled with softcore porn, idle celebrity gossip and a bunch of sexed up bullshit.

People should read the Telegraph and the Financial Times more often .

 

[Razor]

They dont want to sign it because they want to keep their money with the kings and queens on it (aka the pound) and not transfer to the Euro. I swear the Brits are greedy bastards... the only purpose of the royal family these days is for scandals and whatnot. THE OLD DAYS ARE OVER! Get over it!

/end rant

The way it works, one side of the Euro note or coin will have whatever that particular country wants on it i.e. a picture of our most gracious Queen , whilst the otherside has a map of Europe on it, so we won't be losing our money with our Queen on, we'll just be losing the side with all the kooky inventors on.

 

[kirovman]

The way it works, one side of the Euro note or coin will have whatever that particular country wants on it i.e. a picture of our most gracious Queen , whilst the otherside has a map of Europe on it, so we won't be losing our money with our Queen on, we'll just be losing the side with all the kooky inventors on.

Yeah, I think the main arguement against joining the Euro is that our pound is so strong anyway, and the Euro caused somewhat of an economic stagnation in Germany, we don't want the same kind of thing happening.

I think we will join the Euro one day, just when the conditions are right.

And the constituion doesn't mean we will be commited to joining the Euro in any case. The constitution is generally about sorting out what's wrong with the EU.

The principal is a step in the right direction I believe if we want to be influential on the global scale in the future, with the emerging Asian giants in the East.

With the development of Chinese and Indian economies, Europe will soon be dwarfed if we aren't cooperating.

 

[$kelet0r]

The future is European

 

[Razor]

Yeah, I think the main arguement against joining the Euro is that our pound is so strong anyway, and the Euro caused somewhat of an economic stagnation in Germany, we don't want the same kind of thing happening.

I think we will join the Euro one day, just when the conditions are right.

And the constituion doesn't mean we will be commited to joining the Euro in any case. The constitution is generally about sorting out what's wrong with the EU.

The principal is a step in the right direction I believe if we want to be influential on the global scale in the future, with the emerging Asian giants in the East.

With the development of Chinese and Indian economies, Europe will soon be dwarfed if we aren't cooperating.

Exactly, with America growing in the West and the likes of China and Asia in the east and also India becoming far more prosperous, Europe has to unite as a single common market to compete, for example, America spends twice as much (£220Billion) on defence whilst the EU spends a combined (£120Billion) on defence - China spends £15 - £20Billion.