Evolution Question for Apos

[Raziaar]

Hey I'm curious... what exactly about the development of creatures causes them to go through a seemingly endless cycle of large sizes, followed by small sizes?

For example... Obviously the first critters had to be really small... because you don't start from nothing into something gigantic. But I've read that evolution over time, there have been gigantic insects, gigantic critters similar to ones we have now, which have all ultimately shrunk as we see them now.

And there are scientists and evolutionary theorists that predict that the next creatures to inhabit the earth after mankind is gone(if that happens)... are going to be huge again.

It just seems strange to me that the world seems to go into phases of having huge creatures, and tiny creatures... growing and shrinking, growing and shrinking.

Is it population numbers? Predator numbers? growing resources, shrinking resources? Why don't the critters stay relatively the same size, just more advanced at what they do?

 

[Sam]

They change because other creatures change.

Well that's not much good. Take a giant insect for example, it was favourable to be big until a certain point when because of a change in the numbers of prey / predators (just one thing, there are a lot of others), the size becomes a weakness and being smaller is favoured, so they start to get smaller and smaller. I don't have anything on the phases of stuff, but you could say even though there were those giant insects, mammals would've been small then (if they were about), and now insects are small and mammals are big.

Urgh I'm tired and confused.

Dunno about the patterns

 

[Raziaar]

Heh. Just watching this show on Discovery saying that there were scorpion creatures which looked very much like our modern ones, that walked on the seafloor... and one of them was like 10 feet long, as long as alligators/crocodiles.

It just seems so weird to think about, considering our largest scorpions now are so damn tiny.

 

[PvtRyan]

Well, what does it mean to be big? When you grow bigger, you have less to fear from your current predators. The predators in turn, have to grow bigger as well. Predators growing bigger means they need to feed more too (exponentially) which due to a shortage of available food, leads to them growing smaller again, which makes it possible for the prey to grow smaller as well (more efficient). And so on.

That's the best I could make up to create a cycle, but it's not substantiated by anything.

 

[ailevation]

Heh. Just watching this show on Discovery saying that there were scorpion creatures which looked very much like our modern ones, that walked on the seafloor... and one of them was like 10 feet long, as long as alligators/crocodiles.

It just seems so weird to think about, considering our largest scorpions now are so damn tiny.

omg, i've seen that one a couple of weeks back.. very very awesome indeed. Soon, you'll stumble to these big lizard thingies with "sails" on their backs that absorb heat or something.

I think it has to do more with what the environment has to offer. Now, those big species were HUGE when the atmosphere was much different, like it was much dense, more carbon monoxide and all this other stuff I cannot get into depth about... because I lack the knowledge. Back then, due to the earth being a lot warmer and more amazon-like... there's just something about tropical envorinments... I don't have a solid theory. But, like... if you go to todays tropics, you'll see giant creatures like spiders n stuff.

 

[<RJMC>]

I think is just coincidence

for example before the ice age many mamals where big and after the ice age they where dissapearing

also maybe some atmospheric stuff, for example if you bring a tropical animal to a snowy and cold place sure it will not survive long

 

[Sam]

omg, i've seen that one a couple of weeks back.. very very awesome indeed. Soon, you'll stumble to these big lizard thingies with "sails" on their backs that absorb heat or something.

I remember that from a while ago too. Good stuff.

 

[Raziaar]

Apparently the show says... at least for the giant insects, that it was a result of the atmosphere... bunch of oxygen, etc.

 

[Jintor]

I ****ing LOVE evolution. Such divergence and awesomeness. Although i guess I'll never see the wheeled elephant.

Stupid evolutionary lack of a need for organic wheels.

 

[Geogaddi]

Because Jesus made them that way.

 

[Danimal]

Well, what does it mean to be big? When you grow bigger, you have less to fear from your current predators. The predators in turn, have to grow bigger as well. Predators growing bigger means they need to feed more too (exponentially) which due to a shortage of available food, leads to them growing smaller again, which makes it possible for the prey to grow smaller as well (more efficient). And so on.

That's the best I could make up to create a cycle, but it's not substantiated by anything.

This is probably what I would have said, if I had to make a hypothesis on the situation.

 

[Cole]

PvtRyan has it right.
Things evolve in order to survive better.

 

[<RJMC>]

I think another example is us humans

I heard that since when our ancestors started to walk in 2 leg they could dedicate more to use theyr hands to others stuff and in that way evolved in the hands we know, infact we all owe the succes of our specie to our 2 legs

 

[Geogaddi]

PvtRyan has it right.
Things evolve in order to survive better.

But mostly because God wants them to.

 

[Cole]

But mostly because God wants them to.

What God?
I know of about 1000 different Gods off hand. What one are you specifying?

 

[Raziaar]

PvtRyan has it right.
Things evolve in order to survive better.

Well it's just weird how all the creatures stay relatively in proportion to each other. They seem to *ALL* change size to gigantic proportions, or miniature.

It's just intriguing the way top predators back then... those gigantic scorpion things... so huge(and the other insects at the time being gigantic as well)... yet there are not even insects the size of dogs or house cats now. Unless there were but man made them go extinct, which I have no idea.

 

[Jintor]

What God?
I know of about 1000 different Gods off hand. What one are you specifying?

The Gallows God.

 

[Cole]

Well it's just weird how all the creatures stay relatively in proportion to each other. They seem to *ALL* change size to gigantic proportions, or miniature.

It's just intriguing the way top predators back then... those gigantic scorpion things... so huge(and the other insects at the time being gigantic as well)... yet there are not even insects the size of dogs or house cats now. Unless there were but man made them go extinct, which I have no idea.

Well it happens. IDK maybe aliens with a shrinkray device came and shrunk us all!! OMGZZ!! LIKE HONEY I SHRUNK THE KIDS!!!

Anyway.
Insects are small because well lets think about it...what purpose would an ant the size of a dog serve now? By being smaller they can create homes, colonies, and have a much larger food supply.

Back then you had huge dinasours...what good would having a small ant colony be? A T-Rex comes running down and your entire colony has to suffer huge wave vibrations possibly bringing down the home. There may have also been other dominant creatures that held sway over the ground.

Not only that but by being smaller you can reproduce faster. Maybe they were going extinct and wanted to reproduce faster.... so for every generation they got smaller but there was more?

 

[Geogaddi]

What God?
I know of about 1000 different Gods off hand. What one are you specifying?

The real one

 

[Raziaar]

Back then you had huge dinasours...what good would having a small ant colony be? A T-Rex comes running down and your entire colony has to suffer huge wave vibrations possibly bringing down the home. There may have also been other dominant creatures that held sway over the ground.

Well the vibration thing... that's silly. Cause a stampede of cattle would be far worse than dinosaurs. They're not really affected by those vibrations. They build and rebuild easily.

 

[Cole]

Well the vibration thing... that's silly. Cause a stampede of cattle would be far worse than dinosaurs. They're not really affected by those vibrations. They build and rebuild easily.

I guess.

However think of it like this.
One thing finds some need to get smaller. Something else then gets smaller because of that. Other things need to get smaller due to that.

Eventually it is a huge chain reaction. The first thing probably got smaller because..maybe a metor hit earth and it had to do with the oxygen? May a disease? Maybe there was a genetic mutation that caused certain offspring to get smaller and smaller and eventually the bigger one died out for some reason while the smallers stayed alive.

Who knows.

The real one

What real one? Hindu's believe in 100's of gods.
Is it a specific greek god? Roman god? Christian God? Islamic God? Jewish God? Flying Spagheti Monster God? Me? Mr. Hankey Poo? Tom Cruise? Tom Kruise(that dude thats in that electric wheel chair commercial)....

WHAT GOD ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT? PLEASE SPECIFY.

 

[Geogaddi]

What real one? Hindu's believe in 100's of gods.
Is it a specific greek god? Roman god? Christian God? Islamic God? Jewish God? Flying Spagheti Monster God? Me? Mr. Hankey Poo? Tom Cruise? Tom Kruise(that dude thats in that electric wheel chair commercial)....

WHAT GOD ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT? PLEASE SPECIFY.

God God, the one people worship. -.-

 

[Cole]

God God, the one people worship. -.-

There is more than one god worshiped throughout the world. Some don't worship any. Please do not be ignorant.

 

[Jintor]

He's refering the the Christian/Catholic god. The one who doesn't demand much of his worshippers save that they keep the noise down.

I was refering to Odin, however.

 

[evil^milk]

Well it's just weird how all the creatures stay relatively in proportion to each other. They seem to *ALL* change size to gigantic proportions, or miniature.

It's just intriguing the way top predators back then... those gigantic scorpion things... so huge(and the other insects at the time being gigantic as well)... yet there are not even insects the size of dogs or house cats now. Unless there were but man made them go extinct, which I have no idea.

Some of it may be because of convergent evolution, where different species not related to each other adapted similarly because of the resources and conditions in the environment.

 

[Geogaddi]

There is more than one god worshiped throughout the world. Some don't worship any. Please do not be ignorant.

NAHNAHNAH YOU'RE GOING STRAIGHT TO HELL UNLESS YOU GET SOME FAITH

 

[Inyssius Grey]

Ha. Ha. Ha.

Anyways: as far as science can tell, we didn't wipe out that many species on our way up.

This says that the colossal insects were due to a higher level of oxygen; the lack of other flying creatures may have also played a role.


EDIT:

Apparently the show says... at least for the giant insects, that it was a result of the atmosphere... bunch of oxygen, etc.

Missed this post.

 

[Cole]

NAHNAHNAH YOU'RE GOING STRAIGHT TO HELL UNLESS YOU GET SOME FAITH

HAHAH SO ARE YOU BECAUSE OF THE OLD TESTAMENT THAT YOU ARN'T FOLLOWING THAT JESUS SAID IS STILL IN EFFECT IN THE NEW TESTAMENT. HAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH. SEE YOU IN HELL!!!

Anyway when did I say I have no faith? When did I say I had any? I don't think Jesus would like you lieing like this. He's watching you and will judge you for it.

 

[Geogaddi]

HAHAH SO ARE YOU BECAUSE OF THE OLD TESTAMENT THAT YOU ARN'T FOLLOWING THAT JESUS SAID IS STILL IN EFFECT IN THE NEW TESTAMENT. HAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH. SEE YOU IN HELL!!!

Anyway when did I say I have no faith? When did I say I had any? I don't think Jesus would like you lieing like this. He's watching you and will judge you for it.

IT'S JUST A METAPHOR. YOU DON't BELIEF IN GOD SO YOU HAVE NO FAITH IN HIM.

 

[Mechagodzilla]

'Gaddi is yanking your chain, chum.

As for the question, not all species become huge simultaneously.
Some happen to, others do not.

Most dinosaurs were not huge at all. It's a misconception created by popular culture that they were all or mostly ginormous.

 

[Jerry_111]

No, you're all wrong. God made the world the way it is and was!

Sinners go to hell!

p.s. j/k god's actually dead

 

[Mechagodzilla]

j/k the big dinosaurs actually happened because jesus wanted to pimp his rides.

Big animals will appear again after we die because the second coming of christ, and armageddon, are soon upon us.

Many of these are described in Revelations, such as The Lamb With Seven Eyes and Ten Horns Who Has Died But Lives and Bleeds Eternally.

 

[Raziaar]

Most dinosaurs were not huge at all. It's a misconception created by popular culture that they were all or mostly ginormous.

I know not all dinosaurs were enormous. The large ones weren't even that large anyways. If you want to talk large... talk blue whales. Largest damn things to ever live on earth.

 

[Mechagodzilla]

If you think that's large, wait until you see Jesus riding down from space with an army of Two Million Riders Upon Firebreathing Fang-Tailed Horsebodied Lions.

These will, with the support of angels, slaughter all the armies of the world except 144 thousand jews who will be spared to worship The Lamb With Seven Eyes and Ten Horns Who Has Died But Lives and Bleeds Eternally.

 

[99.vikram]

Jesus riding down from space with an army of Two Million Riders Upon Firebreathing Fang-Tailed Horse-Lions.

HERETIC! :O

Jesus and the J-Krew ride MINIBIKES.:sniper:

 

[Raziaar]

If you think that's large, wait until you see Jesus riding down from space with an army of Two Million Riders Upon Firebreathing Fang-Tailed Horsebodied Lions.

These will, with the support of angels, slaughter all the armies of the world except 144 thousand jews who will be spared to worship The Lamb With Seven Eyes and Ten Horns Who Has Died But Lives and Bleeds Eternally.

This is a thread about the processes of evolution? Why are you talking about Jesus and God?

 

[Geogaddi]

Yeah, yeah, I was just messing with you Cole. No hard feelings?

 

[Mechagodzilla]

This is a thread about the processes of evolution? Why are you talking about Jesus and God?

I told you: Evolution is god's knockoff of Pimp My Ride.

In the future, he's going to install extra heads, eyes and a PS2 in the back of every seat.

 

[Raziaar]

I told you: Evolution is god's knockoff of Pimp My Ride.

In the future, he's going to install extra heads, eyes and a PS2 in the back of every seat.

Anyways...

Going to bed. Looking forward to Apos's response tomorrow.

 

[Jintor]

I told you: Evolution is god's knockoff of Pimp My Ride.

In the future, he's going to install extra heads, eyes and a PS2 in the back of every seat.

Well, at least it's not that other weird Car modding show. Where they compete. o_0

How fcked up would THAT be?