F.E.A.R. vs. HL2

Yeah they are, but if someone was questioning them we might aswell discuss them :p
 
the beauty of the fear ai is that they react to far more, and they "do" a lot more. in hl2, the combine will see you, and shoot at you, hinding behind a box or two, throw a grendade to flush you out, and occasionally flank. In fear, the enemy will hear thigns, and see things and attempt to locate sounds and stuff, reminding me ofa lot of things from metal gear solid for the playstation. They also seem to have a lot more realism about them in the sense of what they are able to do, and they work together calling out to their teammates to "check it out". Also, the the fear ai seemed to have more of a personality, you could **** with their heads and make them afraid so they run away and hide, or make them think they aer winning so they run after you right into a trap, and a bunch of other little detals that made them seem more human and unpredicatble. The ai in hl2 seemed very scripted and simple, like there wasn't that much going on in their heads besides stratagy, and the stratagy was pretty cookie cutter, they seemed too robotic in nature. The ai in fear seemed to think and "find you", the ai in hl2 seemed to follow routines and "know where you were".

Maybe its just a case of the degree that they took the ai out to.
 
I really hope though that the FEAR AI becomes a new standard for other games. It will indeed be a pleasure to play HL3 and other games with enemies as intelligent as in FEAR.
 
I don't understand. I see nothing special in FEAR's AI. It is way too predictible later on in the game.
 
iMMuNiTy said:
I don't understand. I see nothing special in FEAR's AI. It is way too predictible later on in the game.
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Have you played it on the hardest setting?
 
slap FEAR on hard and play till that psychotic ending...THEN youll **it yourself as your run dry on ammo...

i think FEAR is...better than HL2 at action, without a question. i mean, what beats running into a room with 4 guys, blowing one against a wall, bicycle kicking the guy running behind him, then taking the legs out from underneath the 3rd running at you..all before the first guy you killed has hit the ground?

but then HL2 has the physics, graphics, AI, unscripted sequences yada yada yada you all know the rest.

but FEAR seems to never up the ante. its kind of the same thing throughout, and you never feel like something new has come along...although the ninjas were great! never jumped out of my seat like that in a long time, thanks FEAR.

dont get me wrong, BUY THIS GAME, play it until repetetive strain kicks in like me, each action sequence can be altered depending on the weapon you use...or not use in some cases...this game ROCKS. havent played a game for AGES that physically made me go 'god that was cool' at the end of each fight, or simply making a guy forward flip by taking a shotty to one of his legs...pure class
 
Beerdude26 said:
Have you played it on the hardest setting?
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Yes, I have. And I didn't notice the AI gain a boost in any way. You just have less ammo, less health, the enemies are quick and have more health. That's about it.
 
There were a few instances for me of completely retarded AI. Eg:
Once I came up to a window of an room. The soldier had cover through the window but for some reason jumped though it, not only sacraficing his cover but also making himself extremly vunerable for the few seconds it took him to jump through, while I had a clear shot.
 
COME ON PEOPLE!! Some game has to beat HL2!! Some game must do it!!....maybe later..but some game will!! (and don't say HL3..that doesn't count) :p
 
ríomhaire said:
There were a few instances for me of completely retarded AI. Eg:
Once I came up to a window of an room. The soldier had cover through the window but for some reason jumped though it, not only sacraficing his cover but also making himself extremly vunerable for the few seconds it took him to jump through, while I had a clear shot.
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The soldiers jump out of the window for cover? Oh. I thought it was for show, because 9 out of 10 soldiers, which jumped through the window, died from the bullet of my gun.

Most of the AI is just for show. For example, most of the radio commands don't even have a purpose, except such as "Regroup!", "Need backup!", etc. I don't want my enemy pointlessly jumping out of the window, throwing down shelves to supposedly obstruct my way (OMGZ TEH WAYZORZ IZ BLOCKZORZ...Oh wait, I can jump it over) or cover each other by rushing at me, dying the first second they leave their stationary cover.

Now if the soldiers would jump out of the window out of the room I just entered, if 3-5 soldiers would occupy me while other two would obstruct the way for me and camp the only possible entrance, if they would flank more often (it is so easy to camp in a corner until your health/slowmo regenerates), and if "Need backup!" command would trigger an NPC spawning entity, then yeah, I'd call that a superb AI.
 
From a multiplayer deathmatch perspective - FEAR is fast-paced and more of a caotic bloodbath type of game. Where as HL2 incorporates more strategy and in my opinion, more enjoyable and smoother gameplay. I like both games, but find myself getting frustrated with FEAR when the environment turns into a bloodbath from having too many people on a server. Considering the average size of the FEAR maps, a server supporting no more than 10-12 people would be ideal. Anything higher and things get too caotic. You're dying about every 15-20 seconds, if not quicker, unless you have eyes in back of your head. Plus there seems to be an abundance of little punks who like to camp out by the spawn spots and rack up cheap kills. Plus, there aren't as many people playing FEAR on line, so there is probably a 1/3 number of servers to choose from, compared to HL2 and CS, that are either running DM, CTF, or Team DM. Personally I like FEAR DM the best, though find it challenging to find a server running just DM that doesn't have a high ping, AND has some players on it. Considering that FEAR requires a fairly beefy system to support it, this probably explains why there aren't more people playing it. Perhaps after Christmas when people get some new goody's for their computer, will the number of participants on-line pick up. Until it does, my interest in starting to fade. And that is after 2-3 weeks of playing it.
In regards to the single player action, my experience is limited, but it seemed pretty cool. Rather creepy in a way. It's a good game that has been well thought out and developed.
 
Immunity, you want too much :). There's not a perfect AI in FEAR, but it is leagues better than the rest. For example, those actual retreats - in FEAR, a couple of soldiers may retreat and wait in the next hallway. In other games, they'll either rush you soon, or stay where they are. Throwing down shelves and dragging stuff isn't bad - they really do take cover behind things they've thrown out.

Radio commands do have a purpose. "Flush him out" means a grenade will be used, "Covering fire" is followed with covering fire, "Sh*t" is often followed by a retreat, etc.

Sometimes, the soldiers will stay behind cover for a very, very long time. At one point, I had a couple of them behind cover, I also hid and waited for them to come at me. They didn't, I got curious, I spent 10 minutes just standing there, and the soldiers were also waiting patiently. This is good stuff.

Where the FEAR AI is best are the Armacham office levels. There are rooms with multiple entrances and other good layouts for flanking and covering manouvers.

I'm not saying the FEAR AI is perfect, but it is indeed far better than most games. HL2 AI has semi-decent covering of each other, good flanking moves, and it's a great AI because of that. In most other games, you get enemies that charge at you, or take cover for a bit and then charge at you, and sidestep occasionally. Or AIs that are completely scripted. The FEAR AI and the HL2 AI make some decisions on the fly - in FEAR, a lot of them.
 
Solver said:
Immunity, you want too much :)
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Exactly. :stare:

Sometimes, the soldiers will stay behind cover for a very, very long time. At one point, I had a couple of them behind cover, I also hid and waited for them to come at me. They didn't, I got curious, I spent 10 minutes just standing there, and the soldiers were also waiting patiently. This is good stuff.
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Not very. I had the same happen to me also; the funniest part was that there were ammo and guns nearby, which I couldn't get to but I could later on as the soldiers retreated, AND because they were camping, I peacefully re-stocked on ammo, changed a gun, flanked the campers and finished off the remaining soldiers.

Where the FEAR AI is best are the Armacham office levels. There are rooms with multiple entrances and other good layouts for flanking and covering manouvers.
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Agreed. Invisible soldiers + Armacham levels = teh win. It would always take me a while before bringing one sucker down. Granted, there was always another one stalking me, so whenever the ceiling's cover would fall, I'd slow things down... To the degree of paranoia :D

Technically, the FEAR AI is better by little. But in-game FEAR AI is rather significantly better, just because VALVe focused on other aspects of the game (it is my guess, however; watch Samon intrude and own me once again).
 
HL2 vs FEAR is like comparing The Matrix with The Matrix Revolutions. One broke out and amazed us all and had everything, the other was good and fun to look at and had good action, but didnt WOW us like the first, and didnt have the great story we expected (thought FEAR did it job and freaked me out).
 
iMMuNiTy said:
Technically, the FEAR AI is better by little. But in-game FEAR AI is rather significantly better, just because VALVe focused on other aspects of the game (it is my guess, however; watch Samon intrude and own me once again).
Click to expand...

The FEAR AI is, though, quite different technically in the approach taken. I'm also sure that better AIs than FEAR could have been developed before then, but the sad thing is, few developers of FPS games focus on AIs. Valve did. They made sure that the HL1 Marine AI was awesome for its time and that the HL2 Combine AI was also far better than what you mostly see.

Another thing is, AIs are very CPU-intensive. Look at Civilization games - Civ3 or Civ4. Both games have low requirements and not very good graphics for their respective release times, but are rather CPU intensive due to the AI, if it has a lot of processing. An even better example would be the uber-advanced chess programs.

Now, the FPS genre is the most computer-intensive one. Adding a great AI would make the system requirements unbearable. Things like detailed physics as HL2 or fully dynamic lighting and shadowing as Doom3 or even particle effects and special effects like FEAR take a lot of processing power.
 
FEAR is the most repitive game ever.

Its a nice engine and concept and all but the map designers should be ****ing shot. You'd swear they copied and pasted everything.
 
Funky Munky said:
FEAR is the most repitive game ever.

Its a nice engine and concept and all but the map designers should be ****ing shot. You'd swear they copied and pasted everything.
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Sometimes it does seem that way, yes.

And I don't know what I've been doing wrong, but most of the time the A.I. got me cowering in a corner, attempting to peek out, only to get pushed back again by a rain of bullets :|
 
I think a lot of people get the use of ai confused... A good ai doesn't mean the comptuer is going to make the best descisions all the time, a good ai is something that mimics "real people" in a game, and can adapt to how you play on the fly and change things up now and then. if all you want is an ai that pwns you left and right, just load up your console and type in "kill" ;p.
 
Ultimape said:
I think a lot of people get the use of ai confused... A good ai doesn't mean the comptuer is going to make the best descisions all the time, a good ai is something that mimics "real people" in a game, and can adapt to how you play on the fly and change things up now and then. if all you want is an ai that pwns you left and right, just load up your console and type in "kill" ;p.
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F.E.A.R., on the other hand, DOES NOT mimic a human individual; the animations do, which are caused by randomly executed scripts. F.e., a soldier checks if there is a window nearby, and then he randomly either jumps through it or not, and the chance he will jump depends on nothing.

Let's take an example. Your enemy is making a way around the room, towards the window, as you camp the door. You hear him approach. What do you do?

Reality: At the last moment, you swarm through the door and try to catch him off guard, OR you find a camp spot (if available) and wait for the bastard.
FEAR: Jump out of the window right in front of your enemy, giving out presents way before Christmas.

Your enemy hid just 'round the corner after quite a fight. Obviously he's preparing for next phase of attack. What do you do?

Reality: Recruit with your men as quick as you can and assault your enemy, before he is ready to take you out.
FEAR: Send one guy to check (result: a widow and an orphan), OR camp the spot he was last seen, giving him the opportunity to make a way around and blast everyone.

The AI in games must be the same level or maybe even smarter than the player himself/herself, because if it pwns you once, you would choose another tactic next time, and if that fails, you'd try another until you suceed. In each failure, which is caused by wrong thinking, I see amusement. I am intrigued to retry, to see in which part of my plan there was a flaw. In each failure, which is caused by a lucky shot of my enemy, or no ammo to reload, or low health or another reason which depends on luck alike, I see nonsense, which is followed by anger.
 
However, an AI that is smarter than a human is still a long way ahead. Not in games, but generally. Once neural research, theoretical computer science and composite material construction move a couple of levels forward, we'll maybe have smart AIs. Not till then. Till then, we only have what a bunch of programmers can do, which can be quite solid, like in FEAR, but certainly not intelligent or able to learn and adapt.
 
Fear remains the only game where I have screamed out of horror.
 
My vote: Half life 2.

Even though Half life 2 sometimes keeps crashing, but still, it has a great graphics and now u can play Half life 2 on XBOX and enjoy the fun!

Fear? Hmmm, its kind of scary but I like it!

End note: Please disregard any unreasonable negative comments about Half life 2. And dont play Fear with lights OFF ARGHH!!!!
 
Oddly enough, I only got scared in FEAR in
the last three levels. Especially the last one. The ending also was very surprising, even though it's a slight HL2 rip-off.

Other than that, the game was far from scary. Now Silent Hill, now that is scary.
 
I had a trivia from Fear and here it is!

Trivia (Taken from Wikipedia about Adrian Shepard),

In the computer game F.E.A.R., which is influenced by Half-Life, a character is named "Shepherd, A." This is possibly an homage to Adrian Shephard.
 
Your enemy hid just 'round the corner after quite a fight. Obviously he's preparing for next phase of attack. What do you do?
Click to expand...
Whenever I camped in FEAR I'd get naded.
 
Someone should post this question on the fear board to make this arguement fair!
 
iMMuNiTy said:
*cringes*

It's you, not u.
Click to expand...

Yeah I know the spelling, please disregard my own spelling of "You"

Anyway, thats my use for message boards. You (Or u if ya accept) can also see people using "U" on message boards.
 
Agreed, accepted and respected, however, count it ignorant to write U. You possess the knowledge of the most common language in the world. Be proud.

Anywho, back on topic.
 
Loved both games. Since they are very different (and a year or so apart tech-wise) it's probably a bit unfair to compare, but I'll give a couple thoughts on each (all just opinion though).

Neither were perfect, but is there such a thing? Both had bit of a repetitive feel. When you go from place to place, for instance, there was a forced pattern rather than a natural feel of why you're going somewhere.

I'd give the edge in AI to FEAR; I had to think a bit more in a number of spots whereas in HL2 I could generally just charge in and mow down whatever was in my way. I disliked that lack of new scenery in Fear. Hallways and rooms, hallways and rooms for the almost the entire game (one of my pet peeves on Doom3 also). With HL2 you had quite a number of completely different locations to explore, so a plus there.

I give thumbs up for the scares in Fear (why aren't there more GOOD scary/horror games being made...what a good genre to jump into since it's lacking so badly). Though, I wish there were a FEW more scares in the game. Too many and it wouldn't have been scary because you'd be burned out (see Doom3), too few and it would have just become another run and gun game. It bordered slightly on the later in places.

What I've always seen as one of the bigger strengths of HL2 is the progression of the tale. The game, the tech, the playing, is always great, but from day one I think there were probably more threads (or the longer threads) on the story or plot. The million threads about: "Who is Gman; does it stand for G-ordon freeMAN?" There is the large thread where the sound files from HL1 were taken apart to see in new information could be found (the behind the glass muffled conversation with gman and a scientist)! Etc. It's almost like reading a book and we can't wait to get to the next chapter. There is a reason to be excited for the story itself and not JUST the game. We want to know the story, what happens next? We care. Anticipation is a wonderful thing.

If I was to compare them head to head, even though a tad unfair perhaps...mmm I'm a massive horror fan so I was really looking forward to Fear, and I did love the game and hope part 2 is in the works, but I have to say overall I give the slight edge to HL2. It gave me more or what I am looking for in the end.

But, both games should be on your shelf. They are both outstanding in what they do.
 
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