Face

[IchI]

Yo, I dunno why. But I decided to make a face. Its 700 triangles but I wasn't planning on adding it to a game or anything. Its just practice. I needed some practice after my last head anyway, mainly because it really dick suck. Anyway here it is:

A couple of things to point out:

I need some crit about what to do with the mesh, getting more shape into it and makeing it flow nicer.

I already know about the eyebrow having a smooth problem, so thats been addressed.

Can you point out changes I can make. Try and get some paint skills into the wire picture to show me.

If you want any better screenshots or renders just ask.

Thanks for all the help.

:afro:

 

[FictiousWill]

It looks fine, actually. Maybe a few more polys on the tops of the ears; normal mapping an ultra-smoothed version over the model will make everything else appear smoother without adding polys. It is a female face, right?

If you want I could generate the normal map for you, what format is the model?

 

[IchI]

LMFAO! nar its male, I used my face as an image refrence :/ hehehe, thats quiet worrying.

As for the normal maps. I would profer to learn my self. If you wanna teach me I would love it

 

[FictiousWill]

Well probably the easiest thing to do to produce a normal mapped model is to download ORB (try google). Then save two versions of the head, one like the one above, and one with about 4 or 5 subdivision surface smooths done on it, in .ase format with texturemapping coordinates set. Then copy one of the premade ORB .cfg files and insert the names of the two models, then let it go. It'll generate the normal map of the hi-poly subdivisioned model in a texture that wraps around the low-poly one. It'll even render a preview in 3d for you. I've already got it all set up, that's why I offered to do it for you.

 

[random.hero]

hey hey Ichi, looks pretty sweet for youre ( kind of ) first head.

if possible could we have a side and fron version please. at the mo i cant tell whether its the model or perspective that makes the face look smooshed towards the bottom. the model ( and you i guess ) doesnt have much definition around the chin area or the eyebrows. making them both more promenant would help the case of its masculinity.

on another note...Will, ive been wondering how to work ORB for a while now, i tried it but im a bit of a retard when it comes to editing things...i like to be spoon fed me. could i add you to my MSN for a few tips if i go wrong ? also, is it possible to view the model + normal maps in Max ? i heard you have to change your video driver, not sure.

PS. as i know i like to be spoon fed, ill help you out with the website

ORB

 

[babywax]

Needs many more poly's. Not sure if they even use normal maps for the HL2 faces, they just load em with polygons because the animation requires it.

 

[FictiousWill]

I don't have msn, but you can AIM me, "FictiousWill" if you want. ORB isn't that complicated really, just type 'help' in it's console and it tells you all the possible commands you can do.

Babywax, HL2 can do normal maps, I distinctly remember somebody saying that, plus you can tell on the big AntLion in the gfx vid that it's normal mapped. The face model here could need a few more polys around the mouth if it's going to do losts of close-up speech, but not many. Normal mapping can do wonders. Hell, Doom3 is one big normal map.

 

[random.hero]

yeah, as Will says, its completely dependant on the type of character it is.

close ups, like Alyx, Kleiner and Eli, i reckon should have about 1750-2500 polies for the face, bearing in mind thats for the SP 7000 polycount. for others like the Civilians, Scientists and maybe Barney, im guessing 1000-1250 or so for the 5000 count.

PS. i dont have AIM

 

[IchI]

New renders as requested. They have noa dvanced lighting etc... just basic renders.

I am going to try the ORB thingy. Might give it a go today.

 

[IchI]

hmmm... I got ORB working, kinda. I think the only problem I have now is to unwrap my texture maps. I think I do anyway. I can get both the low polgon and high polgon models into it etc... but my model which is suposed to have both the lowpolgon model and highpolgon bump map on is totally black....

anyone know what the problem is?

 

[babywax]

Babywax, HL2 can do normal maps, I distinctly remember somebody saying that, plus you can tell on the big AntLion in the gfx vid that it's normal mapped. The face model here could need a few more polys around the mouth if it's going to do losts of close-up speech, but not many. Normal mapping can do wonders. Hell, Doom3 is one big normal map.

That's not what I'm saying, I'm just saying I don't think they used them on the faces. I'm pretty sure Source can use normal maps
I think they decided not to use them on the faces because normal maps tend to give a plastic look. They may have used them though, but every normal map I have seen makes it look fake. It gives more detail but adds this sort of plastic look to it that just doesn't look real.

 

[Lupus]

Bah Orb is giving me jip. I can import the high and low poly models but don't know what to do after that

PS. Ichi, edgeloops would probably help the face flow better, sort of cencentric circles around the eye, mouth etc. kinda like this.
(I know this is higher poly, but it shows what I mean better than a low poly would)

 

[FictiousWill]

This (attached) is one of the ORB demos. You can see how many polys are saved with the normal map, and he doesn't look plasticy at all. Specular maps make you look plasticy, not normal maps! I would be very surprised if there are no normal maps on HL2 character faces.

edit: The two faces in that attachment are the same number of polys. I always have to tell people that. Maybe we need an acronym? Those models are MPCE, Mesh PolyCount Equal?

 

[random.hero]

what i think was said, was that the normal maps were reserverd for world textures rather than anything else.

 

[babywax]

This (attached) is one of the ORB demos. You can see how many polys are saved with the normal map, and he doesn't look plasticy at all. Specular maps make you look plasticy, not normal maps! I would be very surprised if there are no normal maps on HL2 character faces.

Ah, thanks.
That pic you posted is still WAY too low poly.
http://www.halflife2.net/image_files/screenshots/14.jpg
You can't see a single hard edge on her face (until it reaches her hair).

How well do normal maps animate? It seems like they would sort of crumple and cause some sharp differences in light while in animation...

 

[FictiousWill]

random.hero, watch the wall video, they specifically say that normal mapping is used on the characters. And yeah, I know that pic was low poly, babywax, I was jsut showing it doesn't necessarily have to look plastic. As for animation, normal maps deform like any other texture map, so they look ok I suppose, as long as they're not stretched to any extremes.

 

[random.hero]

ok Will. i cant be arsed to go and fins that normal mapping video, but on the same topic, im still having trouble with ORB. like Ichi said, the normal mapped model is all black, whereas the rest are just dandy. can you help me oot here ?

 

[FictiousWill]

I just played with the .cfg files until it appeared for me. Here's everything that I know:

http://www.angelfire.com/alt2/alcatraz/OrbTut/normal_mapping_with_orb.htm

 

[random.hero]

cheers Will, its seems to be working alright now. i just need to scale down my objects, takes 3 mins to get the things in view

 

[IchI]

Hey, it has been a while since I posted any shots of the face and its mainly because I have been working on other things. The face before was virtually complete anyway and instead of modifying the whole face I decided to model another one which was more independent and taking into acount the information I was given. The flow of the wireframe is getting better as I progress through the model and atm I am very pleased with the result. Firstly I am trying to become a more independent modeller. With this model all I used was a front face refrence. All the hights on the face like the cheek and chin level are all judged by my self. I wanted to do this mainly to see how much of an understanding I have on the human face I actually have and at the same time try not to rely on good image refrences. The model will hopfully become a project of mine which I will done little by little, I will start a new thread when the character I am designing starts to take more shape on the body and all around theme. But for the moment I have modelled 1/2 the head. I have come to a stopping point on the head because I need to carfully judge where the ear on the head will actually go along with how long the head will be. I will try and keep you psoted on the development as it is done. Here are the latest renders I have made. Could you judge on both polgon flow and how it is structured because atm these are major factors I need to learn and develope. Thanks.

I am trying to keep the polgon count to a minimun and atm it stands at around 400/500 triangles.

 

[random.hero]

for the polycount, thats looking very good, but theres a few things you might want to look at. im guessing at the moment that youre aiming for a male head, like your last one, so ill crit in that direction.

ive edited your picture, to show you what i think it needs.starting in the top left, the circled, vertice, it seems to stick out a bit too far. then, down the middle of the nose, that edge i highlighted could be use to give it more definition and it round off. the blue dot on the side of the nose, i think should be moved in towards the arrow, and then anotehr line could be created down the blue line on the nostril. the new chin line i drew, might be too drastic, but i think at the moment its a bit too big, plus the dip next to his mouth i think is also too big, thinking about it, that line is wrong. your idea was right, i think it just went a bit too far. now, onto the eye area, the basic shape of the eye is there, but i reckon the dip next to the nose ( where your tears come out ;( ) is too big in comparison and i think it should be smoother coming off the nose looking again, it might need to be more in the middle of the eye. the eyebrows look odd, at the moment he looks almost shocked. first i feel they need to stick out more, and then moved a bit lower. the final thing is the mouth. the gap between the upper lip and the nose seems too big, and the light that is cast onto that area gives it a very flat look, but i can see from the wire that its curved. you might want to give the guy a bigger mouth, as women tend to have smaller mouthes ( despite them being VERY LOUD ).

hehe, that turned out to be a long post, hope that gives you some help. im not a facial expert, but those were my impressions.

good going Ichi, keep it up !! :thumbs:

 

[IchI]

Hehehehe, Nope wrong again Random.Hero. This one is female

About the preportions I kinda understand what you mean. But this might help you understand:

You can see how this woman kinda looks quiet big already on the image refrence. This is why I brought her cheek bones in slightly and also made the head thinner.

Hopfully this might help a little bit.

Thanks for the feedback Random.Hero and I can kinda see what you mean. It may be looks a little weird in the renders. Because its fine on the actual image. Or maybe I might have some of the high values wrong since I am not using a left or right hand image refrence. Hmmm, I will see what I can do. Thanks again.

 

[IchI]

Updated again. I will get a new wireframe as well. I am like ****ing really tired though. I was bored out of my mind watching LOTR for 3hours.. well infact 2hours and 50minutes because I nearly commited suicide near the end because it was beyond bad. Anyway this is new shit as marily manson would say.

 

[random.hero]

bah, s'ok Ichi, i didnt mean any offence by the wrong sex

i only hope my ideas got you thinking.

 

[CrazyHarij]

Man, it looks awesome... I used to make faces like this a couple of years ago, tried out alot of different methods in 3DSM.

 

[Rupertvdb]

It is a female face, right?

I bet you are awesome on nights out, after a few drinks anyone is yours...that face is so blatantly male! lol

 

[random.hero]

I bet you are awesome on nights out, after a few drinks anyone is yours...that face is so blatantly male! lol

I bet you are awesome on nights out, after a few drinks anyone is yours...that face is so blatantly female !

like Ichi says ( "Hehehehe, Nope wrong again Random.Hero. This one is female." ) and the reference pictures show !! :dozey:

 

[IchI]

I bet you are awesome on nights out, after a few drinks anyone is yours...that face is so blatantly male! lol

LoL, I just realised what a stupid comment that was after the proof was posted before the comment...

Anyway its totally changed now so don't worry. I am not posting images because the developement of my character has started.... Infact... I could just share the last image with you before I start a new thread for the character. Here it is so far:

Its an old image, hense some of the facial structure inormalities. But its still a new render

Hope you like it.

 

[Jeremy]

lol pretty neat

 

[IchI]

I am going to be testing the HL2 physics with this character. Atm I have an idea of a very thick large trensh coat with a massive coular. She will also weild a 4 meter long sniper rifle It looks so kewl atm, but yall gunna have to wait