facial animation just eye candy?

[Mattigus]

I got into an arguement about HL2's facial and character animation. He told me that it was just there for eye candy, whereas I thought it was meant to immerse the player better, and give him/her a better sense that they are in a living breathing world. Perhaps that might be considered "eye candy," but my friend defined the facial and character animation of HL2 as something useless that the higher-ups wanted to implement to sell the game better. I always felt that the animation was supposed to serve a higher purpose than that. Any thoughts?

 

[MadGuy]

Its there to make the characters more realistic

 

[nw909]

They put way too much work into making the facial animation system for it to just be eye candy.

 

[Beserker]

It's both. They make the game more immerse and looks ridicilously good. I give all the +++ to it.

 

[Theman2k]

Not an eye candy !

The scen in Eli's lab was amazing , I felt ammoutions.

 

[Polykarbon]

Just try to imagine where games will be in 20 years, I dare you.

 

[hinson]

Sadly face animation cannot be used in MP.

 

[nw909]

Just try to imagine where games will be in 20 years, I dare you.

NPC's that react to your voice?

 

[Mr-Fusion]

Your friend is a moron. Plain and simple. You should not be friends with people that stupid, as it's dangerous for all concerned.

 

[subtlesnake]

It's there both to immerse the player and to allow the character to feel something for the characters on an emotional level, to understand and appreciate their motivations and personality quirks. Like when Alyx looks embarassed after being praised by her father, or when she coyly tells Gordon to stop staring at her in the Klieners lab video.

Just in the same way acting in films is used for far more than just for "eye candy".

 

[Wesisapie]

eye candy.

 

[X-Vector]

Just tell your friend that it's eye candy to immerse the player better and you're done with the argument - you're both teh winnar!

 

[A2597]

he'll get a darwin award..

 

[FictiousWill]

I thought the facial animation was going to be in multi? That was one of the big things I was looking forward to.

 

[Crushenator 500]

I thought the facial animation was going to be in multi? That was one of the big things I was looking forward to.

yeah, i heard that too, but that it wont be AS high as in the main characters in sp. ittl be a dumbed down version to lower pings, and subsequently lag.

 

[Lobster]

They are going to use the lip synching stuff to make players mouths move when they use voice comms ingame (like they do with the 1 joint mouth in CS etc at the moment)

The facial stuff for multi will probbally be more like the generic citizen charecters, and react to when the player is in pain, or completing an objective, or whatever :O

 

[d3adBolt]

its there to express the characters emotion. :|

 

[clarky003]

the only reason there wont be extensive facial animation in MP is because there wont be any scripted sequences that envolve dialogue. It'll just mean that the characters will have default expressions. But who knows, you may have talk keys that allow you to say stuff that valve allow you to say, like team tactic talk etc.. we havnt seen HL2 Multiplayer and I dont think we will till the games released

 

[Bicka]

I thought the facial animation was going to be in multi? That was one of the big things I was looking forward to.

Lol I like the idea that you were hoping the facial animations were gonna be in mp! I can imagine you just standing there watching some guy raising his eyebrows everywhich way while everyone else is fighting away :rolling:

CrowbarKing: FictiousWill! You flank around them and I'll draw their fire!
FictiousWill: Rofl say that again! I wanna get a screenshot!
CrowbarKing: W-Will? Flank them you tit!
FictiousWill: Rofl!
CrowbarKing: :/

:E

 

[bigun]

i can imagine that in MP, the lip synching will be based on the direct WAV file analysis and conversion, obviously without the 'by-hand' tweaks that the SP animations are given....should still be pretty darned realistic i hope!

maybe with radio commands like GO GO GO! the characters face will have like a more animated facial expression, than say a - keep down team! radio command.

 

[el Chi]

Not an eye candy !
The scen in Eli's lab was amazing , I felt ammoutions.

Yeah that really was something. But did anyone else fel that Eli was: a) more than a bit like Bill Cosby (but in a good way - I can see I'm going to like him); b) quite camp
Nevertheless, he's great. And who's the woman talking to you in the lift? I assume she was also at BMRF...

I read in one of the pre-E3 previews that the facial expressions can actually help convey the NPCs' state of mind, and even what they're intending to do in a way - communicating wordlessly, if you will.

 

[mrchimp]

yeah, i heard that too, but that it wont be AS high as in the main characters in sp. ittl be a dumbed down version to lower pings, and subsequently lag.

facial animations won't effect lag or ping's, it's client side.

 

[Someone]

Also in the group who thinks "both."

It's surely eye candy on many levels, no getting around that.

But the point of it is to draw you to the characters, which draws you into the plot, and into the tale.

It's things like facial animations (along with voice acting) which will very much help you care for the characters, which in turn fuels the plot. If Alyx dies...or Eli...or even barney, you will care and it won't be just some faceless group of pixels on the screen.

 

[Crushenator 500]

facial animations won't effect lag or ping's, it's client side.

damnations.

 

[A.I.]

Is see no point in developing a tech for 2-3 years just to be an eye candy. There is something about this face making tech.

 

[Someone]

Is see no point in developing a tech for 2-3 years just to be an eye candy. There is something about this face making tech.

Isn't that kinda what Carmack does though? He and id are much more about the look than the story/plot/gameplay. Doom3 has to be at least 75% eye candy.

Although I agree with what you say completely. I if were a game designer I would make everything important on some level and not just have "flash" scattered about my game for the sake of having it. I think interaction and immersion are MUCH more important in today's games...HL1 and even System Shock and Deus Ex proved this out each on their own levels. I think people are kinda sick of just pretty games with nothing else.

 

[mrchimp]

I think this whole argument is silly, eye candy is an important part of a game. Up untill now textures have pretty much been used in games as eye candy (now they indicate what can and can't be destroyed in some games), so are textures an unimportant part of games?

Even if something "Is just eye candy" it still improves the game and eye candy such as facial animations make's a shit load of difference to the suspension of disbelief and the players emotional involvement with the game characters.

 

[ferd]

I dont think the facial animations technology was made just for eye candy, imo it really adds alot to the gaming experience. I mean, just look at the vids...a guy looking serious or a guy laughing makes a serious difference and totally changes the mood.

 

[Kadayi]

The facial tech makes source the ideal platform for developing FP games that are more RPG orientated and plot driven than straight shooters. Because of the nature of the tech (the spoken dialog is written into the WAV files to aid the lipsynch), it will always be limited as to it's usage outside of single player.

Eye Candy....is purely down to the player. If your into the further development of single player gaming through more immersive scenerios/situations and deeper characterization then it's a big step forward. If your more into Bam Bam Multiplayer shooters then it isn't going to add much to your gameplay.

 

[X-Vector]

And who's the woman talking to you in the lift? I assume she was also at BMRF...

That's Judith Mossman, no specifics known about her yet I think.

I hope Valve will spend a little more time on her animations; they look glitchy when she walks away from Gordon and she also doesn't show any dynamic facial expression when her voice communicates slightly varying emotional states (for example, the last bit of her speech should show her with a smile on her face).

 

[Brian Damage]

Yeah that really was something. But did anyone else fel that Eli was: a) more than a bit like Bill Cosby (but in a good way - I can see I'm going to like him); b) quite camp
Nevertheless, he's great. And who's the woman talking to you in the lift? I assume she was also at BMRF...

I read in one of the pre-E3 previews that the facial expressions can actually help convey the NPCs' state of mind, and even what they're intending to do in a way - communicating wordlessly, if you will.

I think that Eli now sounds like Bubs from Homestar Runner, but in a good way.

 

[Zerox]

It's there to make them look alive and to create a persona for the characters.

 

[Kadayi]

That's Judith Mossman, no specifics known about her yet I think.

I hope Valve will spend a little more time on her animations; they look glitchy when she walks away from Gordon and she also doesn't show any dynamic facial expression when her voice communicates slightly varying emotional states (for example, the last bit of her speech should show her with a smile on her face).

I agree that she did seems a little glitchy in her movements, but with regard to her emotions judging by her voice however, she seemed a little more reserved than the other characters, the little handclasp seemed appropriate IMO.

I don't think that Valve want to pantomine the characters body acting too much, otherwise their expressions loose significance when the characters are trying to put real emphasis on their words.

 

[ferd]

Everything looked quite smooth and natural to me, except for Father Gregory, who seems to like waving his arms around alot

 

[Mountain Man]

Not an eye candy !

The scen in Eli's lab was amazing , I felt ammoutions.

Do you mean emotions?

 

[iamaelephant]

Obviously it's eye candy, no doubt about it. But it's there to immerse you in the game more, just like all eye candy. Hi res textures, bump maps, fancy player models, all of these are just eye candy but, like the facial animations, they make the game that little bit more believable.

 

[Apos]

I hope Valve will spend a little more time on her animations; they look glitchy when she walks away from Gordon and she also doesn't show any dynamic facial expression when her voice communicates slightly varying emotional states (for example, the last bit of her speech should show her with a smile on her face).

Maybe, but not every character has to betray their emotions as openly as the other's we've seen.

Also, I thought her animation looked glitchy at the end at first, but after watching it again, it could actually be that she quickly turns to take another glance at you or to see if you're following her.

 

[Fat Tony!]

Eye candy, it has no purpose apart from being hilarious when they get it wrong.
The actual landscape detail, wall textures and all that stuff.. thats atmosphere

 

[X-Vector]

I agree that she did seems a little glitchy in her movements, but with regard to her emotions judging by her voice however, she seemed a little more reserved than the other characters, the little handclasp seemed appropriate IMO.

Being reserved is not a problem, looking like she's had one lobotomy too many is.
Voice acting is fine, body movements are OK (except for the glitchy part), it's just the facial animation that needs work; it shouldn't be too hard to make her look interested and show a little friendly smile at the end.
If all aspects of the character performance don't have at least a measure of correspondence, the illusion is shattered.
NB: In that same scene, Eli and Alyx show that it can be done.

 

[denzelr]

Being reserved is not a problem, looking like she's had one lobotomy too many is.
Voice acting is fine, body movements are OK (except for the glitchy part), it's just the facial animation that needs work; it shouldn't be too hard to make her look interested and show a little friendly smile at the end.
If all aspects of the character performance don't have at least a measure of correspondence, the illusion is shattered.
NB: In that same scene, Eli and Alyx show that it can be done.

I think the illusion would be shattered if every character smiled as you say they should. Ever think that maybe her character doesn't show her emotions as much as, say Eli or his daughter Alyx(it runs in the family). She does have her arms crossed and she seems to be fidgeting during Eli's speech, which IMO indicates that she is nervous around Gordon. I think she is a very believable character.