Fallout 3 Pre-Review: CanardPC

[Tagaziel]

http://www.nma-fallout.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=45725

So for exclusive reviews you get sixteen hours with the game and then all your screenshots need to be approved?

Heh.

 

[Gunner]

I used to read Canard PC, their reviews are usually spot on. Makes me sad though, maybe one day we'll get a real sequel.

 

[Tagaziel]

Oh yeah... the following is a rape of Fallout so severe you should avert your eyes:

Leaked Information regarding Fallout 3. Everything below is considered a SPOILER. You have been warned.

Spoiler

Gentlemen, meet Fawkes. One, if not only, friendly Super Mutant in Fallout 3.

He is considered a "failure" in the experiment (he was deemed a failure because he could talk, supposedly) and was left inside a cell for observation at the Vault Labs in Vault 87.

You see, the labs at Vault 87 were assigned to a project called the "Evolutionary Experimentation Program", Or EEP for short.

Consider Vault 87 much like the military base at Mariposa. It was used to test modified strains of the Forced Evolutionary Virus (FEV) on clean, healthy citizens. Vault Dwellers.

However, they could never get their modified strain just right.

After all the modifications that were made to it, the modified FEV was superior in physical adaptions, but tended to decrease intelligence (instead of increase, which never was the case anyways with super mutants) and caused the subjects to exhibit bouts of rage and anxiety.

And that, my friends, is why the Super Mutants in capital D.C. cannot be talked to, except Fawkes. You can have him as your buddy! Comes included with a Gatling Laser.

Oh, and remember Harold? That Ghoul-Mutant?

Well, Harold is in Fallout 3.

And Boy has he changed. A lot.

Harold eventually found himself overwhelmed by Bob, and became rooted to the ground during his travels in the Washington DC region. Here he was discovered by several people who began to worship him as a god, and a small and exclusive cult called the "Treeminders" began to form in secrecy. Bob began to blossom and many plants grew in this area, which became green with life, a stark contrast to the outer wasteland.

Quote Morbo: VAULTS DON'T WORK THAT WAY

 

[Krynn72]

Quote news anchor lady: Ahahahaahaha! In other news...

 

[Asuka]

I expected this to happen. Its just going to be a average game.

 

[Jintor]

**** it, I don't care about spoilers anymore.

*Clicks*

 

[Krynn72]

**** it, I don't care about spoilers anymore.

*Clicks*

I did the same. Not quite sure I even understood it though. Probably because I never played the originals.

 

[Jintor]

I did a little, but I'm more worried about the Canuck impressions than those little spoilers.

 

[Tagaziel]

I expected this to happen. Its just going to be a average game.

Oh shit.

Asuka's not excited! D:

 

[Kyorisu]

Quote Morbo: VAULTS DON'T WORK THAT WAY

They do now. /evil laughter.

 

[Laivasse]

That crap about Harold is the most retarded plot snippet ever. Sadly it's also exactly the kind of thing I'd expect Bethesda's writers to come up with.

Spoiler

'k guyz, what kind of half-assed little references to the earlier games can we use to make it look like we know what we're doing?'
'How about a cameo from a minor character...? Like Harold? That fella with the tree in his head.'
'Not bad, not bad... Tree in his head you say... What say we turn him into... A TREE!!!'
'BRILLIANT'

 

[Tagaziel]

They do now. /evil laughter.

That same shit was delivered in FO:BOS.

****ing FOBOS.

...

 

[CptStern]

this review and the reviewer is/are borderline retarded

really he hasnt a clue:

The more time passes, the more I feel like this dog, barking and foaming at every car that happens to be passing by. I run after them, trying to bite their wheel rims, to crush their tires, their muffler, but I miss.They are going too fast, too far from me. And even if I succeeded ? What would happen anyway ? I bite a moving wheel, it stomps my face, I assault some scrap, it smashes my teeth. Some things are so lifeless, so sluggish that you can't possibly let off steam on them. Fallout 3, anyone ?

what the hell does that even mean? ok it could be lost in translation but that's entirely nonsensical

he consistantly contradicts himself:

Even when you want to explore things and let alone the main quest for a while, it still tastes weird. Besides the cardboard sets, the feeling of emptiness suddenly goes away. Just like in Oblivion and Gothic 3, adventure awaits at every corner of the street.

yet previously he said:

How about random encounters ? Well, I have yet to see one

what's it going to be? a random encounter around ever corner or no encounters at all?


some of his complaints make it sound like he's never played a game in his life much less reviewed one:

On the other hand, don't expect to be able to convince anybody that originally does not like you. NPC reactions are determined by your Karma and even a professional liar won't be able to convince someone who does not like him to become his partner. But have no fear: you can change your reputation just like you can switch clothes. You're too good to obtain what you wish? Steal, kill generic NPCs (those with no name) and here you are: the incarnation of evil! But don't worry: after three days, people forget about your deeds and you are forgiven.

it's a game what did you expect? some long journey where the player through hardship, presevereance and plain old hard work eventually becomes more or less evil/good? it's a game, realism does not always apply

much of his criticism is just plain hate for the sake of hate and not at all valid in terms of creating a bias free review ..but that's ok because he's entitled, however what he isnt entitled to is shoving his review down our throats and assuming we all think the way he does, we dont therefore many of his points are simply personal observations that have no room in a review meant to speak to all gamers ..not just the losers at NMA

 

[Kyorisu]

Stern you're my hero of the day and it's only 4am.

 

[Jimmeh]

When he says 'random encounter' he's surely talking about the original Fallout style random encounters. In the original games, when travelling across the map it between settlements you'd be looking down at the path your character's taking on the map, and brought back into the game when you randomly encountered something, like a trader or a group of bandits. Apparently they're meant to be back in Fallout 3, but I can't see how they'd work now.

Anyways, he's kinda got a point about the whole good/bad thing. If you choose to be an evil bastard then what's available to you should reflect that. It's a bit lame to be able to jump back and forth between good and evil willy-nilly, it just becomes like the whole Oblivion jack-of-all-trades thing. Where you're the grand champion of the arena and the head of the fighters guild, along with being the leader of the dark brotherhood and the theives guild all at the same time. I don't see what's so bad about being able to play the game through a few times as different characters and have different things available to you each time. There's no need to cram everything into one playthrough.

 

[Tagaziel]

what's it going to be? a random encounter around ever corner or no encounters at all?

Random encounters =/= Crowded world

FO3 is too dense, that's his point.

some of his complaints make it sound like he's never played a game in his life much less reviewed one:

it's a game what did you expect? some long journey where the player through hardship, presevereance and plain old hard work eventually becomes more or less evil/good? it's a game, realism does not always apply

The point is, in Fallout, once you went down one path, it was hard to become the opposite. However, in F3, it's a matter of simply giving water to hobos to become a living saint or nuke a few nameless respawning villagers to be the ultimate incarnation of evil.

Not that it matters, as after 72 hours everyone forgives you.

much of his criticism is just plain hate for the sake of hate and not at all valid in terms of creating a bias free review ..but that's ok because he's entitled, however what he isnt entitled to is shoving his review down our throats and assuming we all think the way he does, we dont therefore many of his points are simply personal observations that have no room in a review meant to speak to all gamers ..not just the awesome people at NMA

Given that his observations mirror exactly what was shown in gameplay live streams, he's right.

 

[CptStern]

Random encounters =/= Crowded world

FO3 is too dense, that's his point.

that's his point in that particular sentence however it contradicts his earlier statment that he didnt see one random encounter ..how can that be possible if he's attack at every corner ..isnt that "a random encounter"?

The point is, in Fallout, once you went down one path, it was hard to become the opposite.

he's comparing something that was the norm 10 years ago, times change

However, in F3, it's a matter of simply giving water to hobos to become a living saint or nuke a few nameless respawning villagers to be the ultimate incarnation of evil.

you know for people who love this series because of the role playing elements they sure do a piss poor job of roleplaying an aspect of the game they dont like ..like going out of their way to really redeem themselves or giving their character some back story that overcomes this limitation. No, their rigid pov says the game MUST be the way they want it to be: no comprimises but ultimately they do themselves a disservice in the way they limit their enjoyment of the game due to niggling little details that normal people would ignore. To NMA, this injustice is of biblical porportions, it's as if not all is right with this world unless their beloved game is EXACTLY the way they want it to be. which is exactly what they want. it's a self fullfilling prophecy because there is no way it will live up to their expectations thereby validating their criticism in their own minds ..and everybody likes to pat themselves on the back every now and then

Not that it matters, as after 72 hours everyone forgives you.

I spent countless hours creating havoc in oblivion simply by attacking random people ..I didnt enjoy the fact that even though I was half way across the world some guard in some obscure part of the world would recognise me as the person who started a riot in town ..it'll be nice to eradicate every single person within walking distance with impunity

Given that his observations mirror exactly what was shown in gameplay live streams, he's right.

I've seen those videos, I didnt draw the same conclusion, obviously he is wrong

 

[Tagaziel]

that's his point in that particular sentence however it contradicts his earlier statment that he didnt see one random encounter ..how can that be possible if he's attack at every corner ..isnt that "a random encounter"?

Apparently not.

he's comparing something that was the norm 10 years ago, times change

It's a timeless norm - your choices have consequences. For all the hyping Beth did of their C&C system, it's really a fundamentally flawed, poor C&C system.

you know for people who love this series because of the role playing elements they sure do a piss poor job of roleplaying an aspect of the game they dont like ..like going out of their way to really redeem themselves or giving their character some back story that overcomes this limitation. No, their rigid pov says the game MUST be the way they want it to be: no comprimises but ultimately they do themselves a disservice in the way they limit their enjoyment of the game due to niggling little details that normal people would ignore. To NMA, this injustice is of biblical porportions, it's as if not all is right with this world unless their beloved game is EXACTLY the way they want it to be. which is exactly what they want. it's a self fullfilling prophecy because there is no way it will live up to their expectations thereby validating their criticism in their own minds ..and everybody likes to pat themselves on the back every now and then

Here's a tip: despite a few complaints about excessive changes to the SPECIAL system, Van Buren, the real Fallout 3, was looked forward to and lived up to our expectations.

You accuse us of narrow mindedness, yet in your outrage! you completely ignore the fact that we simply want a good RPG game holding true to the Fallout spirit. If Fallout 3 had isometric turnbased combat (FPP exploration isn't THAT bad), real choices & consuequences and respected the Fallout legacy instead of raping it at every step, there'd be much, much less negativity and much, much more careful optimism.

I spent countless hours creating havoc in oblivion simply by attacking random people ..I didnt enjoy the fact that even though I was half way across the world some guard in some obscure part of the world would recognise me as the person who started a riot in town ..it'll be nice to eradicate every single person within walking distance with impunity

Which you could do in Fallout too - except that your negative karma meter would impact your relations with other characters, as clearly, evil characters obliterating entire towns make other people feel uneasy. Unless you're a childkiller/slaver, which earns you quite a bit of negativity and affects how the game unfolds. See? Roleplaying.

Do note I'm not talking about having psychic guards that are experts in ESP. I'm talking about having choices that actually mean something, that you'd have to consider your options before making any definite choice and have them leave a mark on your character.

I've seen those videos, I didnt draw the same conclusion, obviously he is wrong

Live gameplay streams of leaked XBox 360 copies or official promos? And do note, that he PLAYED the game.

 

[Laivasse]

..isnt that "a random encounter"?

It can be described as a 'random encounter', however a random encounter is also specific RPG terminology for enemies/NPCs which pop up out of nowhere when you're travelling between areas, or in a dungeon. Apparently FO3 was meant to have random encounters like this, although I wasn't aware of it myself.

he's comparing something that was the norm 10 years ago, times change


you know for people who love this series because of the role playing elements they sure do a piss poor job of roleplaying an aspect of the game they dont like ..like going out of their way to really redeem themselves or giving their character some back story that overcomes this limitation. No, their rigid pov says the game MUST be the way they want it to be: no comprimises but ultimately they do themselves a disservice in the way they limit their enjoyment of the game due to niggling little details that normal people would ignore. To NMA, this injustice is of biblical porportions, it's as if not all is right with this world unless their beloved game is EXACTLY the way they want it to be. which is exactly what they want. it's a self fullfilling prophecy because there is no way it will live up to their expectations thereby validating their criticism in their own minds ..and everybody likes to pat themselves on the back every now and then

Eeeeih Stern, I think you're stretching this particular point if you're making out that it's a only bugbear for fanatical Fallout fans. I've probably only visited NMA about half a dozen times in my life, but it makes perfect sense to me that having believable responses to actions should be the bread and butter of any game that aspires to being a good RPG. You shouldn't have to be roleplaying inside your head to excuse the inadequacy of the way cause and effect are represented in the game world. If you can go on a killing spree and it won't affect the way characters in the world see you, then to what extent is it even possible to create a 'character' in any meaningful fashion?

I spent countless hours creating havoc in oblivion simply by attacking random people ..I didnt enjoy the fact that even though I was half way across the world some guard in some obscure part of the world would recognise me as the person who started a riot in town ..it'll be nice to eradicate every single person within walking distance with impunity

I agree that psychic guards are annoying but that's not a problem which is inherent to having a realistic system of karma/reputation/whatever. It would still be possible to massacre people for fun if devs went an extra yard towards creating a believable world - for instance by implementing a system by which you continuously evolve a reputation and by which people only learn of your misdeeds if there are witnesses, if a reasonable amount of time is allowed to pass, etc. Oblivion made a half-arsed go at this, but on the whole it worked on the principle that if you killed someone, you ticked a checkbox somewhere that read 'Evil person, guards will chase.'

 

[CptStern]

It can be described as a 'random encounter', however a random encounter is also specific RPG terminology for enemies/NPCs which pop up out of nowhere when you're travelling between areas, or in a dungeon. Apparently FO3 was meant to have random encounters like this, although I wasn't aware of it myself.Eeeeih

fair point however this is probably moreso to do with loading between zones when traveling ..random enounters as described isnt all that feasible in a modern game

Stern, I think you're stretching this particular point if you're making out that it's a only bugbear for fanatical Fallout fans. I've probably only visited NMA about half a dozen times in my life, but it makes perfect sense to me that having believable responses to actions should be the bread and butter of any game that aspires to being a good RPG. You shouldn't have to be roleplaying inside your head to excuse the inadequacy of the way cause and effect are represented in the game world. If you can go on a killing spree and it won't affect the way characters in the world see you, then to what extent is it even possible to create a 'character' in any meaningful fashion?I agree that psychic guards are annoying but that's not a problem which is inherent to having a realistic system of karma/reputation/whatever. It would still be possible to massacre people for fun if devs went an extra yard towards creating a believable world - for instance by implementing a system by which people only learn of your misdeeds if there are witnesses, if a reasonable amount of time is allowed to pass, etc. Oblivion made a half-arsed go at this, but on the whole it worked on the principle that if you killed someone, you ticked a checkbox somewhere that read 'Evil person, guards will chase.'

yes perhaps I was a little overzealous in saying it's only something that NMA would find annoying

granted in a prefect world this would be ideal, however I've yet to see a modern game that can do this ..I think and most will agree, that in developing F3 (a known ip to hardcore players but relatively unknown to casual players) they had to sacrifice certain staples of the genre in order to appeal to the largest demographic possible ..the game diehard fans want is the game no studio could deliver because there's no audience for fallout 3 if it retained everything from the original ..at least not the sales numbers a AAA title demands. I learned a hard lesson years ago when it comes to video games; expectations are rarely if ever met simply because what you think a game will be may be contrary to what the market demands ..I may think a game like Age of Conan would have been a hundreds times better if there were no mage classes and skill over gear determined the outcome of every battle ..however the market dictated that this would never happen, once I understood this it was much easier to enoy the game without getting wrapped up in what the game could have been (the other major problems not withstanding) ....anyways I'm rambling without direction

 

[Cornerstone]

So, the answer is to dumb ourselves down the to level of casual players???

*Goes and plays Demon Stone*

GRRRRRRRRRRR, nope can't do it...

 

[Jintor]

Stern is saying "This is reality, deal with it"; Grizzley is saying "Reality should have been like this, why isn't it".

Stern is being realistic but that doesn't mean we can't winge about what we were promised and what we got ammirite.

Not that I can judge, I haven't played it yet.

 

[Acepilotf14]

There's a review in the new xbox magazine, they seem to love it. Gave it a 10/10, and the said the only few things they didn't like was inability to fast travel when indoors, no voice for the main character(damn mass effect spoiled us), and the fact that no one cares if you stealth kill the person next to them. Overall, they pretty much said it's oblivion with guns and a better leveling system, which, imo, is godly. I'm still buying it anyway.

 

[Cpt Tenacious]

overall, They Pretty Much Said It's Oblivion With Guns And A Better Leveling System, Which, Imo, Is Godly. I'm Still Buying It Anyway.

Quoted for jesus like truth.

EDIT: I'm Columbus (look at my posts)

 

[Tagaziel]

granted in a prefect world this would be ideal, however I've yet to see a modern game that can do this ..I think and most will agree, that in developing F3 (a known ip to hardcore players but relatively unknown to casual players) they had to sacrifice certain staples of the genre in order to appeal to the largest demographic possible ..the game diehard fans want is the game no studio could deliver because there's no audience for fallout 3 if it retained everything from the original ..at least not the sales numbers a AAA title demands. I learned a hard lesson years ago when it comes to video games; expectations are rarely if ever met simply because what you think a game will be may be contrary to what the market demands ..I may think a game like Age of Conan would have been a hundreds times better if there were no mage classes and skill over gear determined the outcome of every battle ..however the market dictated that this would never happen, once I understood this it was much easier to enoy the game without getting wrapped up in what the game could have been (the other major problems not withstanding) ....anyways I'm rambling without direction

*facepalms*

Where did I say I want a carbon-copy of Fallout 1/2?

Fallout 1 released today would not be a success, granted, because it's 2D and low res. However, a Fallout 1 updated with an efficent 3D engine, turn based isometric combat (let's say, in the vein of Silent Storm), SPECIAL system and meaningful choices & consequences, just like in the original title, would have a much higher chance of success. Heck, it can even be FPP for exploration.

Let me get something straight here, Stern - many elements in FO3 are copies of elements from previous titles, taken verbatim. However, instead of taking elements that make sense (like looks of equipment, enemies etc.), they have taken whole chunks of PLOT elements and pieced them together, changing the location only.

There's a review in the new xbox magazine, they seem to love it. Gave it a 10/10, and the said the only few things they didn't like was inability to fast travel when indoors, no voice for the main character(damn mass effect spoiled us), and the fact that no one cares if you stealth kill the person next to them. Overall, they pretty much said it's oblivion with guns and a better leveling system, which, imo, is godly. I'm still buying it anyway.

OXM is a rag and a whore. They got an exclusive review from Bethesda and are pretty much the first to publish it globally - how couldn't it get 10/10?

 

[Paulaner]

Guys, please stop comparing FO 1/2 with FO 3, they are two totally different genres, with different gameplay, engine, philosophy, all. Apples and oranges. As for the karma thing, I've never seen it done the right way. Imitating real life social behaviour is impossible, so one have to accept a much simpler system.

 

[Tollbooth Willie]

OXM is a rag and a whore. They got an exclusive review from Bethesda and are pretty much the first to publish it globally - how couldn't it get 10/10?

This, basically. Somehow, they gave Dead Space a 6 but Oblivion with Guns a 10. All credibility they might have had went right into the shitter.

Oh, and before anyone tries to make some smartass comment, go **** yourself you piece of shit, I love you.

 

[Cerpin]

My biggest problem with Oblivion was the lack of specialization. You could literally become king of everything. I didn't care for the auto-leveling issues, bad writing, horrible story, and poor animation, because I enjoyed the mood and vibe of just exploring the land.

If this is the same for F3, I'm going to be very disappointed. And that's coming from someone who has settled down with the fact that this will be just an ES game in a post apocalyptic setting.

 

[Tagaziel]

Guys, please stop comparing FO 1/2 with FO 3, they are two totally different genres, with different gameplay, engine, philosophy, all. Apples and oranges. As for the karma thing, I've never seen it done the right way. Imitating real life social behaviour is impossible, so one have to accept a much simpler system.

It isn't "much simpler". It's "dumbed down and primitive".

Planescape: Torment had an interesting implementation of the idea, where nearly every choice you make affects your character. Starting with true neutral, through your actions you could become anything from Chaotic Evil to Lawful Good, affecting how others treated you.

 

[Jintor]

Guys, please stop comparing FO 1/2 with FO 3, they are two totally different genres, with different gameplay, engine, philosophy, all. Apples and oranges.

It's supposed to be a goddamn sequal! It's more like Apples and APPLES!

 

[Asuka]

Oh shit.

Asuka's not excited! D:

Yup, First trailer = me crazy about this game

Everything they showed in terms of gameplay just looks stupid. The weapons sound like bb guns and VATs is a joke.

Only thing that can save this game for me is if the story turns out great. Oh and the art direction is amazing.

Well see.

 

[Paulaner]

It's supposed to be a goddamn sequal! It's more like Apples and APPLES!

Well, in my opinion, comparing FO 1/2 and FO3 is like comparing SSI Gold Boxes with Oblivion
I would have called the game "Fallout: <add a tagline you like>", because the only thing they share is the post-nuclear setting.

 

[Kyorisu]

It's supposed to be a god damn sequel! It's more like Apples and APPLES!

Ah why do people still whine about this? It's a different game end of story.

 

[Jintor]

Ah why do people still whine about this? It's a different game end of story.

Because it's a legitimate complaint, damnit!

Paolo's solution is acceptable though. I guess if I think of it as Fallout: Oblivion it's less painful.

 

[Kyorisu]

Fallout: Lite.

More shooting, less everything else.

 

[CR0M]

Oblivion - the next generation

 

[Paulaner]

Fallout: How to Lose Friends & Alienate People

 

[Eejit]

Fallout 3: The Search for Spock

 

[Gargantou]

Fallout 3: The Search for Spock

I just lol'd IRL.

 

[Tyguy]

*leans even further toward Far Cry 2*