Fallout 3

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That sounds one hell of an interesting yet odd way to open the game. Will have to see how this pans out. Hopefully a demo comes out first, then I will get the game. Still hopefully they get this right.

I know people complain about the lore. But unfortunately I don't know much about it. But if they can come up with a convincing story and back that up in some lore. I'm sure most people will be happy.

Tbh I can't wait. Loving the zombies too.
 
Read the IGN preview myself. I finally have a reason to be excited about it, I've been wanting one for ages. Hopefully Bethesda will continue the quality of Oblivion, without that peculiar feeling of unsettling emptiness it had.
 
Interesting, but shows that one fatal flaw Beth sticks to like a leech. Forced tutorial.

Good ****ing lord.

Can they, for once, include a "skip tutorial" option?

Regardless, some of their art direction is good, though, the locations have that Falloutish vibe to them. Too bad they stick to trash can power armour and superorcs with superghouls.

I love how stupid some things they say are.

Note, however, that this is not the same Dogmeat, since this game takes place over 100 years after the first two games.
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No shit, the game is set on the opposite end of the continent. It's kind of obvious it isn't Dogmeat.

And to be clear, when they say "500 endings," I think we are talking about granularity mostly. Like, there are probably just a few real endings on the big plot points, but you'll hear anecdotes in voiceovers, and/or maybe with art montages, saying what happened to this person, or that town, depending on your actions throughout the game.
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No, really?

Hines says 500 endings and, what, you want to buy a 501st?
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NO I WANT HORSE ARMORLOLZ!!!1!!1!!!!

Jeff: Well, yeah, but the game is an RPG, and RPGs are ostensibly about making decisions.
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Oblivion clearly shown how good they are at facing the player with tough decisions. Not.

1up said:
nerdcore
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How cute.

Dopemine Cleric responded to this quite nicely: "It's pretty sad that people at beth forums are actually screaming for a NMA exclusive preview, while the gaming journalists have a "Burn the witches" mentality with the fanbase. I have never seen anyone so vocally opposed to a fanbase, and this is not a very nerdy fanbase. I don't see Grizzly and BN dressing up in power-armor and yiffing at conventions while arguing the philosophy of Fallout with people who haven't even played the game, and shunning them for not. Someone needs to direct this hate towards the StarWars fan base, which is to that point of "Nerdcore" . Wait, we can't, cause everyone loves Starwars and that would be a sin."

I put the context in bold, since I care for the mental health of slow children.

But say I'm feeling fine and stumble upon another Radscorpion -- why prolong a petty encounter?
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Nevermind that such an encounter usually lasted about 30 seconds or so in the original Fallout.
 
I can't say that being jutted out of my travel to initiate epic turn-based strategy against bugs was one of my personal highlights from Fallout 1 & 2.
 
Yeah, I gotta say that I'm much more in line with Sean and Jeff over all of this.
 
Absinthe said:
I can't say that being jutted out of my travel to initiate epic turn-based strategy against bugs was one of my personal highlights from Fallout 1 & 2.
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True. The turn-based combat never completely sucked me in. I'd do some more research on this if I hadn't lost my original disk. :(
 
Mikael Grizzly said:
Can they, for once, include a "skip tutorial" option?
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Mikael Grizzly said:
Nevermind that such an encounter usually lasted about 30 seconds or so in the original Fallout.
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So you're bitching about a "10 minute tutorial" (which sounds really neat to begin with), yet defending the repetitive and unnecessarily long combat against something you've already killed hundreds of times before? I think it'd be great to be able to skip the longer turn based combat against the weaker and more easily dispatched enemies, yet be able to jump right back into the more specialized turn based style against the stronger opponents. You don't even have to disable the feature if you don't want to, so why bitch about it?
 
Announcement for slow children: V.A.T.S. isn't a turn based system. It is a superpower like bullet time.

Sedako, please understand the difference between being forced to sit for ten minutes as a child and being forced to actually play the game.

Although I admit, the constant interruptions in FO2 (random encounters were far rarer and far more interesting in FO1) are irksome, especially when you're jumped by a swarm of Radscorpions while wearing Powered Armour.
 
Mikael Grizzly said:
Announcement for slow children: V.A.T.S. isn't a turn based system. It is a superpower like bullet time.
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Ok, so I misread. Doesn't change the the point that I'd rather just be able to kill weaker enemies without getting into an overly involved battle.


Mikael Grizzly said:
Sedako, please understand the difference between being forced to sit for ten minutes as a child and being forced to actually play the game.
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They didn't really go into details, but it doesn't sound like we're being forced to just sit there like an in-game cutscene, and that we'll be interacting with things the whole time. It's even possible that what you do during this "tutorial" will have an effect on what your character later becomes. If the game is really 70+ hours long like that say, 10 minutes is hardly something to get all bent out of shape over. Half-life starts off with a lengthy tram ride where all you can do is watch and listen, but I don't see you complaining about that...
 
Sedako said:
They didn't really go into details, but it doesn't sound like we're being forced to just sit there like an in-game cutscene, and that we'll be interacting with things the whole time. It's even possible that what you do during this "tutorial" will have an effect on what your character later becomes. If the game is really 70+ hours long like that say, 10 minutes is hardly something to get all bent out of shape over. Half-life starts off with a lengthy tram ride where all you can do is watch and listen, but I don't see you complaining about that...
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Except you'll be forced to sit through the tutorial every ****ing time you play the game. EVERY. SINGLE. TIME. Which doesn't even meaningfully contribute to the plot as it's a tutorial.

In Half-Life, the tram ride is an important part of the game, as it sets the mood for the beginning of the game and is basically an elaborate introductiory sequence, that serves to provide context for the rest of the events.
 
Mikael Grizzly said:
Except you'll be forced to sit through the tutorial every ****ing time you play the game. EVERY. SINGLE. TIME. Which doesn't even meaningfully contribute to the plot as it's a tutorial.

In Half-Life, the tram ride is an important part of the game, as it sets the mood for the beginning of the game and is basically an elaborate introductiory sequence, that serves to provide context for the rest of the events.
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Like I said, this "tutorial" may contribute to the development of your character. They're probably even incorrect by calling it a tutorial, because it doesn't even sound like one. I have to sit through Half-Life's introduction every time I want to play through it again, and after the first couple of times, it got a little annoying. The way they've described Fallout 3's introduction, it probably won't be nearly as static as Half-Life's was. If it really bothers you THAT much.. just make a save point right after it ends and start all your new games from there...
 
Maybe it will be the most awesomest baby simulator you ever played, Mikael.

THINK ABOUT IT
 
Mikael Grizzly said:
Except you'll be forced to sit through the tutorial every ****ing time you play the game. EVERY. SINGLE. TIME. Which doesn't even meaningfully contribute to the plot as it's a tutorial.

In Half-Life, the tram ride is an important part of the game, as it sets the mood for the beginning of the game and is basically an elaborate introductiory sequence, that serves to provide context for the rest of the events.
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Who says? You're in a world of broad assumption there. There might well be a fast route if you so choose once you've done it initially, or you might be able to fast skip sections. Frankly it seems to me that your looking for excuses to vent on this before we've truly been able to judge it. From what I've read I like the sound of the approach that the developers are taking on this with regard to character creation, it's in line with what they've done before in other products but clearly expanded upon. I'd envisage a big reason for doing this is so they can bring players up to speed in terms of understanding the game world they are in, through initial interaction (exactly like GF in HL at the beginning tbh). The vast majority of players who buy this aren't going to be fanatical fallout fans who know the lore inside out, but people new to the story and setting, you seem to forget this. Either way I don't think 10 minutes is that big a deal on a game that's probably going to have 70 hours+ of game play.
 
I can never bring myself to love lore involving "mutants" these days, I can't stop myself from pointing out the inconsistencies or mistakes.
Though I do like X-men, I became a fan before I knew enough about genetics to be exasperated.
 
Kadayi said:
Who says? You're in a world of broad assumption there. There might well be a fast route if you so choose once you've done it initially, or you might be able to fast skip sections. Frankly it seems to me that your looking for excuses to vent on this before we've truly been able to judge it. From what I've read I like the sound of the approach that the developers are taking on this with regard to character creation, it's in line with what they've done before in other products but clearly expanded upon. I'd envisage a big reason for doing this is so they can bring players up to speed in terms of understanding the game world they are in, through initial interaction (exactly like GF in HL at the beginning tbh). The vast majority of players who buy this aren't going to be fanatical fallout fans who know the lore inside out, but people new to the story and setting, you seem to forget this. Either way I don't think 10 minutes is that big a deal on a game that's probably going to have 70 hours+ of game play.
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In every single Bethesda game to date there wasn't a single instance in which we could skip the tutorial.

Also, you can't really be acquainted with the world as a kid, as the Vault is completely shut off from the outside world. Isolated, the inhabitants know absolutely nothing of the outside.

I can never bring myself to love lore involving "mutants" these days, I can't stop myself from pointing out the inconsistencies or mistakes.
Though I do like X-men, I became a fan before I knew enough about genetics to be exasperated.
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Fallout is not governed by real world science. It is governed by 1950s SCIENCE!
 
It's not like we're going to start the game and sit through the tutorial twice a day.
 
You'd be surprised how often you forget to make a master save. Or how it gets corrupted after the first patch. Or...

There's always mods. vv
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The developer should deliver a fully functional, finished product FIRST.
 
You have to admit you're really nitpicking here though. Surely there are things worse than forced tutorials? They're only at the beginning of the game and it's not like you're gonna lose your save files on a weekly basis or anything, forcing you to start from scratch endlessly.

It is, at worst, a minor nuisance. Hardly a "fatal flaw".
 
In Oblivion I just did a save before the sewer exit where it asks to confirm details. Just load and save as when you want to start a new character.
 
Mikael Grizzly said:
You'd be surprised how often you forget to make a master save. Or how it gets corrupted after the first patch. Or...
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Haha! OMG! I JUST LOST MY SAVE GAME! NOW I HAVE TO REDO THE TUTORIAL AGAIN!
Oh, and I don't care that I just lost my character or anything.

Seriously, is 10 minutes of anyone's life so valuable?

EDIT: Oh, and did Morrowind even have a tutorial? I don't remember there being one...
 
Able to control Dogmeat = epic win

I swear, I hated that damn dog in Fallout 1. Especially in the mutant base.
 
Sounds awesome, I'm looking forward to this a lot more now. Sounds like they went with a Hellgate Londonish approach to the guns, which is good, with the added ability to do some called shots every once in a while. And the beginning sounds great to me... very clever way of doing character creation. There's a lot they can do with that... I see absolutely -no- reason to complain?
 
Seriously, is 10 minutes of anyone's life so valuable?
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If it's spent crawling around like a baby and talking to children about their freckles? Yes.

In ten minutes you can do quite a lot of things.

And the beginning sounds great to me... very clever way of doing character creation. There's a lot they can do with that... I see absolutely -no- reason to complain?
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How about being unable to see how your chosen attributes, skills or traits affect the rest of the statistics due to the character sheet being available at the very end?
 
Mikael Grizzly said:
If it's spent crawling around like a baby and talking to children about their freckles? Yes.

In ten minutes you can do quite a lot of things.
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You've probably spent far more than 10 minutes complaining about how much Bethesda is killing your precious fallout series, just as you are now. What have you accomplished by bitching here about a tutorial? From what I can see, nothing...

Mikael Grizzly said:
How about being unable to see how your chosen attributes, skills or traits affect the rest of the statistics due to the character sheet being available at the very end?
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Where does it say that the character sheet will only be available at the end? It also says:

You learn about strength, perception, endurance, charisma, intelligence, and other RPG traits by browsing children's books.
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They'll probably have something in place that will allow you to see what effects what as far as character creation.
 
Heres a tip! Save a game after you finish the tutorial! OMFG PROBLEM SOLVED.
 
Mikael is right how dare they waste our precious time we're wasting playing video games... oh wait.
 
Where does it say that the character sheet will only be available at the end? It also says:
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In none of the released materials or interviews is the possibility to access a character sheet at any time during the char's creation mentioned. And seeing how in no post-Dagerfall TES game was it implemented, I have a hard time believeing they are suddenly going to wise up.

They'll probably have something in place that will allow you to see what effects what as far as character creation.
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Was it implemented in any TES game?

Hint: No, it wasn't.
 
Mikael Grizzly said:
In none of the released materials or interviews is the possibility to access a character sheet at any time during the char's creation mentioned. And seeing how in no post-Dagerfall TES game was it implemented, I have a hard time believeing they are suddenly going to wise up.



Was it implemented in any TES game?

Hint: No, it wasn't.
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Just don't play the game? Problem solved. :D
 
Such logic can be applied to anything, ranging from playing games to world wide tragedies.

Your grandma died? Just don't think about it? Problem solved! :D

I don't have to add that it's stupid, do I?
 
Yes, but...

You've spent 3 pages ragging on a 10 minute tutorial in what is ostensibly a 25+ hour game.

Your point that forced tutorials are annoying is perfectly valid, and I agree. But you make it out to be a game killer.
 
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