Fallout 3

[Kadayi]

In every single Bethesda game to date there wasn't a single instance in which we could skip the tutorial.

But past history has nothing to do with it, bizarre as this notion may seem games companies do evolve their products/approach over time. The only RPG franchise Bethesda have developed is the Elder scrolls series, and we already know from what's been written already that Fallout 3 isn't going to be Post apoc Oblivion, so I don't think it's sensible to draw too much from it.

Also, you can't really be acquainted with the world as a kid, as the Vault is completely shut off from the outside world. Isolated, the inhabitants know absolutely nothing of the outside.

Much like watching a lady exit a car, you either see it or you don't, and unfortunately it's become clear reading your posts Mikael that you don't. If you had the capacity to see beyond the red mist of your fanboy ire, you'd realise that the whole process they've developed is probably one where in you not only get to determine your characters abilities within a context and understand how those abilities work, but it also provides them as storytellers with an opportunity to set up a series of early encounters with characters you are likely to interact with later on in the game.

To me, as both a gamer and someone very much interested in game design it sounds like a clever approach to outlining character development, building upon the good work lionhead started in Fable and setting up potential long term motivations. The great problem with blank sheet character design is it is just that, blank sheet. Sure you might have the option to choose a background history, but words pail in significance against experienced events.

Let's say there is an incident where you get bullied at a young age, but later on in the game you encounter the bully in dire circumstances and have to make a decision as to whether to help him/her/ their family? Are you going to spite the bully because of childhood misdemeanors? Perhaps save his family but condemn him to death? Cheer on the mutants as they drag him away to his doom? Or put aside childhood differences and save him and his family?

Perhaps you meet a former girlfriend/boyfriend/friend who is apparently working against you. Are you going to try and persuade them to change their ways and see the light ? Are you going to cut them down mercilessly? Or are you pehaps going to usurp your mission instructions in favour of joining them?

A good RPG (like The Witcher) is based around setting up challenging and demanding moral and personal conflicts for the player to decide upon. If a 10 minute excursion into your characters childhood might help Fallout 3 deliver that, then personally I'm all for it. I couldn't give a shit what the social rejects at NMA think tbh.

Please feel free to respond intelligently. Childish ranting will only result in :dozey:

 

[Jangle]

Such logic can be applied to anything, ranging from playing games to world wide tragedies.

Your grandma died? Just don't think about it? Problem solved!

I don't have to add that it's stupid, do I?

That's an unsound analogy and (I hope) you know it...

A video game that you don't like doesn't = your grandma dying/ nuclear war. And if it does I'm worried.

This is like you finding a sandwich with some filling that you don't like, and then spending hours writing about the sandwich and annoying everybody telling them how bad that sandwich is and how they'd be stupid to go anywhere near it, and then eating it yourself anyway. And then telling everybody that you were right, the sandwich was terrible.

 

[Tagaziel]

But past history has nothing to do with it, bizarre as this notion may seem games companies do evolve their products/approach over time. The only RPG franchise Bethesda have developed is the Elder scrolls series, and we already know from what's been written already that Fallout 3 isn't going to be Post apoc Oblivion, so I don't think it's sensible to draw too much from it.

The same people that created Oblivion are creating Fallout FPS. Why would they suddenly wise up and add a skip tutorial option?

Much like watching a lady exit a car, you either see it or you don't, and unfortunately it's become clear reading your posts Mikael that you don't. If you had the capacity to see beyond the red mist of your fanboy ire, you'd realise that the whole process they've developed is probably one where in you not only get to determine your characters abilities within a context and understand how those abilities work, but it also provides them as storytellers with an opportunity to set up a series of early encounters with characters you are likely to interact with later on in the game.

*facepalms*

Vault 101 is supposed to be completely sealed off from the outside, your father is the first person in a looong while to leave, and you are essentially forced out by the Overseer. Other Vault Dwellers won't follow you, because the Overseer won't let them.

For example, meeting the Greaser Snakes is wrapped up in the Vault within the first hour of the game, hardly what I'd call "later on in the game".

I repeat, outside the Vault you and your father are the only Vault 101 dwellers. No more.

To me, as both a gamer and someone very much interested in game design it sounds like a clever approach to outlining character development, building upon the good work lionhead started in Fable and setting up potential long term motivations. The great problem with blank sheet character design is it is just that, blank sheet. Sure you might have the option to choose a background history, but words pail in significance against experienced events.

Instead of creating your own backstory for the character and building your stats around it (hello, it's a ROLE-playing game) you are forced into a pre-determined background. What you say is all fine and dandy, but not really applicable to a hardcore RPG game Fallout is (and what Fallout FPS should be).

Let's say there is an incident where you get bullied at a young age, but later on in the game you encounter the bully in dire circumstances and have to make a decision as to whether to help him/her/ their family? Are you going to spite the bully because of childhood misdemeanors? Perhaps save his family but condemn him to death? Cheer on the mutants as they drag him away to his doom? Or put aside childhood differences and save him and his family?

Perhaps you meet a former girlfriend/boyfriend/friend who is apparently working against you. Are you going to try and persuade them to change their ways and see the light ? Are you going to cut them down mercilessly? Or are you pehaps going to usurp your mission instructions in favour of joining them?

How familiar are you with Fallout? I guess not at all, since you fail to understand what a Vault is and what's the situation in Vault 101. It's a closed, self-sufficent community that has no reason whatsoever to exit the safety of the Vault and be forced to cope in the hostile wastes.

A good RPG (like The Witcher) is based around setting up challenging and demanding moral and personal conflicts for the player to decide upon. If a 10 minute excursion into your characters childhood might help Fallout 3 deliver that, then personally I'm all for it. I couldn't give a shit what the social rejects at NMA think tbh.

I love how people like to do an NMA-hate-circlejerk. It's amusing, as in watching-chimpanzees-throw-crap-at-visitors amusing, with the added hilarity of irony, as you hammer in blocks of text, just like a social outcast with no life.

Your entire reasoning would be valid if the protagonist wasn't hailing from a Vault. But since the player character is, your argument is void.

That's an unsound analogy and (I hope) you know it...

I merely applied your own logic to a completely different thing, to show how absurd it is. Argumentum ad absurdum, my dear brother.

 

[Kyorisu]

I love how people like to do an NMA-hate-circlejerk. It's amusing, as in watching-chimpanzees-throw-crap-at-visitors amusing, with the added hilarity of irony, as you hammer in blocks of text, just like a social outcast with no life.

Treat others the way you expect to be treated. By which I'll gladly continue to abuse NMA in anyway I see fit whenever I see some crazed loon trying to argue their pathetic points on an internet forum. I wasn't aware people could get so damn mixed up in a any given subject they'd continually waste their time which could be used for more productive things. Who's the social outcast now?

 

[Tagaziel]

Treat others the way you expect to be treated. By which I'll gladly continue to abuse NMA in anyway I see fit whenever I see some crazed loon trying to argue their pathetic points on an internet forum. I wasn't aware people could get so damn mixed up in a any given subject they'd continually waste their time which could be used for more productive things. Who's the social outcast now?

I did that. I tried to be respectful, I tried to be nice, and all I got in return was a kick in the nuts.

Oh, and to nuke your point, arguing with chimpanzees is an interesting method of passing time in between studying for my civil law exam.

You may now return to your circlejerking, forgive my interruption.

 

[Jangle]

I merely applied your own logic to a completely different thing, to show how absurd it is. Argumentum ad absurdum, my dear brother.

I'm very reluctant to join arguments on forums, but come on. From that statement, I don't think you even understand how reductio works... Just accept that you're not getting any sympathy from anybody by whining about this game.

 

[Zephos]

I was expecting the second coming of fanboy Jesus and all I got was a moderately faithful, rather great game.

****ing pissed.

 

[simonjedi]

Fallout 3 collectors edition, available for pre order comes with lunch box and vault boy bobble head

http://www.gamestop.com/gs/landing/fallout3/default.aspx?

 

[Kadayi]

Instead of creating your own backstory for the character and building your stats around it (hello, it's a ROLE-playing game) you are forced into a pre-determined background. What you say is all fine and dandy, but not really applicable to a hardcore RPG game Fallout is (and what Fallout FPS should be).

You want true post apoc ROLE-play, go download Aftermath or Gammaworld from DrivethruRPG.com (www.drivethrustuff.com). Fallout 1 & 2 are both great computer RPGs for their time, but are woefully inferior games compared to old skool hardcore P&P RPGs like those. Hardcore my ass. :dozey:

Oh, and to nuke your point, arguing with chimpanzees is an interesting method of passing time in between studying for my civil law exam.

Glad you've such a high opinion of the posters on this forum. Now you've completely dropped of the respect-o-meter, perhaps you'll do the honorable thing and resign your position accordingly. No ones laughing with you, they are laughing at you :dozey:

 

[Kyorisu]

This kid needs to get off the internet and realise just how much times he's wasted arguing over nothing.

 

[Tagaziel]

You want true post apoc ROLE-play, go download Aftermath or Gammaworld from DrivethruRPG.com (www.drivethrustuff.com). Fallout 1 & 2 are both great computer RPGs for their time, but are woefully inferior games compared to old skool hardcore P&P RPGs like those. Hardcore my ass. :dozey:

Do I really have to point out that Fallout was built from the beginning as a faithful recreation of pen and paper RPG mechanics?

Glad you've such a high opinion of the posters on this forum. Now you've completely dropped of the respect-o-meter, perhaps you'll do the honorable thing and resign your position accordingly. No ones laughing with you, they are laughing at you :dozey:

I actually do have a high opinion about most posters on the forums. I'm simply returning the favour to those that see fit to attack me and NMA in every post they make about Fallout, since being nice doesn't seem to work.

And congratulations on being a perfect example of hypocrisy. When you insult others ("social rejects") all is fine and dandy, but when someone dares to mock you, oh my god, how offending!

Pathetic.

This kid needs to get off the internet and realise just how much times he's wasted arguing over nothing.

Takes me about thirty minutes per week, enough to pass time while eating breakfast.

 

[Kyorisu]

Takes me about thirty minutes per week, enough to pass time while eating breakfast.

What the hell do you have four arms or something? Between eating food and sipping my coffee I couldn't manage to operate a keyboard as well. Besides think of all the things you could do in those 30 minute blocks. Put them all together and you could save the world from uh....whatever it is that is afflicting us right now.

Now to enjoy the remaining 30 minutes of my weekend. Serious business to attend to tomorrow involving lasers and various gases. It's going to get ****ing cold.

 

[Tagaziel]

I'm quite proficent with a keyboard. Enjoy your weekend, by the way.

 

[jimbo118]

 

[Asknoone]

Enough. If you can't refrain yourselves from throwing manure at each other by the time the next Fallout 3 thread rolls around, infractions are going to be handed out

Locked.