Fallout design docs

[Tagaziel]

I just recently learned that Bethesda Softworks possesses ALL, I mean ALL design docs for ALL Fallout games, including FOT, FOT 2, FOBOS AND FOBOS 2.

This is like a goddamn holy grail.

Anyways, I started a small petition to show Bethesda that we need this material. As DarkLegacy put it, it's like withholding religious evidence from Christians (atheists don't need to start Fallout fans = religious nuts debates now).

Anyways, here's the link:

http://www.petitiononline.com/fallout/petition.html

 

[Marinmald]

fallout was an awsome game.

 

[Acepilotf14]

1: Why do we need them?
2: If you want to take a different approach then religon, think of it as the CIA holding documents without releasing them.

 

[Tagaziel]

1: Because they are an important part of the history of Fallout and are the equivalent of Raising the Bar,

2: But they can do it indefinitely D:

 

[cheddarrr]

fallout is one of my all time favorite games. its had the most thought in it than just about every single rpg ive played. And for that. i love it

 

[Flyingdebris]

ehh, what? any company has the rights to keep their design docs private if they want to.

you can ask nicely, you can encourage them to publish it, but to imply you have some sort of right to them by starting a petition is rather rude.

 

[Tagaziel]

ehh, what? any company has the rights to keep their design docs private if they want to.

you can ask nicely, you can encourage them to publish it, but to imply you have some sort of right to them by starting a petition is rather rude.

Bethesda developers haven't written a single byte of these documents. Plus, there is no real reason for them to withold it.

Also, if not a small petition then what? Sucking off Pete Hines?

 

[Gargantou]

I cant believe this guy compared Raising the Bar to all the Fallout design docs, raising the bar is far from a design doc..

 

[Lucid]

I really should give Fallout another try, maybe I'll appreciate it more since it's been like 4/5 years since I've tried it.

 

[Kyorisu]

Bethesda developers haven't written a single byte of these documents. Plus, there is no real reason for them to withold it.

It's their property regardless of who wrote it, duh!

 

[Tagaziel]

Kind of an interesting question... while it is their property now, copyright still aplies to the author of the document(s) I think.

Also, Raising the Bar is directly based on design doc. True, it may not be a design doc per se, but still is heavily based on them.

 

[-Psy-]

They have the right to keep there documents. :|

 

[phantomdesign]

Design documents SHOULD be kept secret; it's like releasing your source-code.

While releasing this info superficially appears "not advancing the common good," the originating company would lose a noticeable portion of it's economic viability. Eventually this would result in a reduction of new ideas as people have less motivation create such new ideas.

 

[Gargantou]

Exactly phantomdesign.

Releasing a design doc is like letting all the other devs take a look at your very foundation for your games..
Imagine if Ferrari were to release all their files/schemes etc for how they make their cars to the public!

 

[Tagaziel]

Design documents SHOULD be kept secret; it's like releasing your source-code.

While releasing this info superficially appears "not advancing the common good," the originating company would lose a noticeable portion of it's economic viability. Eventually this would result in a reduction of new ideas as people have less motivation create such new ideas.

Why exactly should they remain secret? The originating company is dead due to the cancellation of Van Buren and moronic administration.

Plus, your argument makes little logical sense. How releasing the design documents for a game that already makes use of these ideas publicly destroy economic viability, especially since the two games we care most about are 9/10 years old?

How releasing design documents for already published ideas reduce creativity?

How can the release of the documents make Interplay lose a noticeable portion of it's economic viability when it's already dead?

 

[phantomdesign]

"Why exactly should they remain secret?"
There are many subtle elements to game design that can make or break a game which can be hidden in any part of the game / gameplay / looks / controls / etc. It's like releasing the source-code.

"Plus, your argument makes little logical sense."
Your inability to understand my argument doesn't automatically make it illogical.

"...destroy economic viability, especially since the two games we care most about are 9/10 years old?"
Mario is still fun today; while many games from that age have lost their appeal. The "Lord of the Rings" story still retains it's appeal today. Some things deteriorate with age, but not everything. Obviously this game hasn't deteriorated too much (according to your perspective).

"How releasing design documents for already published ideas reduce creativity?"
The subtle aspects that make or break a game aren't always easy to see . . . maybe the way aiming is done slightly differently, or some subtle coloration. Things you won't pick up on or understand how to replicate, but enhance the experience anyway.

How can the release of the documents make Interplay lose a noticeable portion of it's economic viability when it's already dead?
Maybe . . . . just maybe Bethseda wants to use those ideas?

 

[Stigmata]

Bethesda, in all likelihood, is releasing this game in over a year. Releasing the design documents puts every single Fallout idea and concept in the hands of anyone with an Internet connection. Maybe Bethesda is basing their story around some narrative canon that was cut from Fallout 1 or 2, or maybe there are unused characters that they're going to put in. All of a sudden, half the game might be ruined for you.

Besides which, like people have already said, a lot of the game concepts and designs could be stolen by other developers, and a by-the-books Fallout clone could be released before Fallout 3. Now go on and tell me that that's good for Bethesda.

 

[KagePrototype]

There are many subtle elements to game design that can make or break a game which can be hidden in any part of the game / gameplay / looks / controls / etc. It's like releasing the source-code.

No, it really isn't.

There is nothing to keep secret in a design document for an already released video game (nevermind a game as old and dated as Fallout), because all the contained gameplay mechanics would be available for scrutiny/pilfering in the video game itself.

Besides which, like people have already said, a lot of the game concepts and designs could be stolen by other developers, and a by-the-books Fallout clone could be released before Fallout 3. Now go on and tell me that that's good for Bethesda.

But any company could do that without the design documents. Hell, companies do this anyway!

 

[Agent.M]

I must admit that after reading and seeing the screens of Fallout 3 in my gameinformer I am rather excited for this game!

 

[Flyingdebris]

get out of the fallout fan mindset for a few seconds and think from a developer's standpoint.

it doesn't matter if most of it was written by interplay, legally its bethsdesa's now and they are making use of it. Releasing it severely limits their future possible options as it would give away all sorts of gameply or story ideas which at best would mean people would see any possible future titles coming from a mile away gameplay and story-wise, and at worst, another studio will make a game based off these ideas first.

It is essentially like revealing your hand in a game of cards. And they are not gonna do it until they are damn sure they are done with it, and can thusly make money in printing and publishing an edited version.

As for raising the bar, that wasn't a design doc, that was a peek into a design doc, filled with commentary and concept art. Valve is not going to release their full design doc.

 

[Tagaziel]

There are many subtle elements to game design that can make or break a game which can be hidden in any part of the game / gameplay / looks / controls / etc. It's like releasing the source-code.

Fallout has been entirely dissected by us, there is little we do not know about.

Your inability to understand my argument doesn't automatically make it illogical.

Yes, because you're arguing that releasing the design documents containing the design of an already released game is wrong, before it publishes the design of an already released game.

Mario is still fun today; while many games from that age have lost their appeal. The "Lord of the Rings" story still retains it's appeal today. Some things deteriorate with age, but not everything. Obviously this game hasn't deteriorated too much (according to your perspective).

You didn't answer my question.

The subtle aspects that make or break a game aren't always easy to see . . . maybe the way aiming is done slightly differently, or some subtle coloration. Things you won't pick up on or understand how to replicate, but enhance the experience anyway.

You're joking, right? The color of an odd pixel here or there hardly improves the experience.

Maybe . . . . just maybe Bethseda wants to use those ideas?

it doesn't matter if most of it was written by interplay, legally its bethsdesa's now and they are making use of it. Releasing it severely limits their future possible options as it would give away all sorts of gameply or story ideas which at best would mean people would see any possible future titles coming from a mile away gameplay and story-wise, and at worst, another studio will make a game based off these ideas first.

Newsflash: Fallout has already been released ten years ago and everything that was used in the design docs was used in the game and stuff that wasn't left loads of materials in the game files.

It seems you actually fail to understand a very simple thing - a successful game was already released and it's far easier to take the actual game and copy it rather than use the design doc.

 

[theotherguy]

I went out and bought fallout to see what the hype was about, but its so buggy its unplayable. Maybe I'll try fallout 2 instead.

 

[Bob_Marley]

Make sure you install the patch. There are some serious game breakers in the standard American Version, so I hear.

Anyway, I'd like to see the docs come out, but ultimately they're Berthseda's property now and they can do with them as they wish. If you push hard enough you might get somewhere, we in the Jagged Alliance community did, we got the full release of the source code for JA2 allowing some excelent work to be done on the game. Mind you, from my perspective we're rather more laid back about JA than the fallout guys are about fallout, with their cold, hard methodical dissections of the past games.

To be honest I'm rather apathetic, though I love the original FOs, I do like to keep a suspension of disbelief about these things, though I am intersted in taking a peek at these docs if they were released. So I probubly lean to Mikael's side of the argument in this case.