Fascist America, in 10 easy steps

[CptStern]

please read the ENTIRE article before posting ..I only partially reproduce it here so it will be obvious if you havent read it all. It's by Naomi wolf, those familiar with her work should especially enjoy it

http://www.guardian.co.uk/usa/story/0,,2064157,00.html

Last autumn, there was a military coup in Thailand. The leaders of the coup took a number of steps, rather systematically, as if they had a shopping list. In a sense, they did. Within a matter of days, democracy had been closed down: the coup leaders declared martial law, sent armed soldiers into residential areas, took over radio and TV stations, issued restrictions on the press, tightened some limits on travel, and took certain activists into custody.....

...That blueprint has been used again and again in more and less bloody, more and less terrifying ways. But it is always effective. It is very difficult and arduous to create and sustain a democracy - but history shows that closing one down is much simpler. You simply have to be willing to take the 10 steps.

As difficult as this is to contemplate, it is clear, if you are willing to look, that each of these 10 steps has already been initiated today in the United States by the Bush administration....

...It is my argument that, beneath our very noses, George Bush and his administration are using time-tested tactics to close down an open society. It is time for us to be willing to think the unthinkable - as the author and political journalist Joe Conason, has put it, that it can happen here. And that we are further along than we realise.

the 10 steps to fascism:

1. Invoke a terrifying internal and external enemy

2. Create a gulag

3. Develop a thug caste

4. Set up an internal surveillance system

5. Harass citizens' groups

6. Engage in arbitrary detention and release

7. Target key individuals

8. Control the press

9. Dissent equals treason

10. Suspend the rule of law


every single one of those steps can be applied to the bush admin ..please read through each description to see how Naomi Wolf came to that conclusion


I agree with Naomi wolf and have been saying as much for years now ..it's just so disheartening to see even rational americans turn a blind eye to the erosion of freedoms apparent in the US today

 

[Atomic_Piggy]

Very disheartening indeed. America has sucseeded in breaking its own laws since it first came around (from no-torture rights to freedom of speech rights) Interesting article.

 

[Sidewinder]

1/10

 

[CptStern]

1/10

justify your rating please

 

[Sidewinder]

maybe later.I just got home from work.All I want to say is that Lincoln did the same things, so Piggy needs to get his facts straight.I'm going to take a nap and later tonight i will type something up.

 

[CptStern]

lincoln's been dead for over 140 years ...dont see how that is at all relevant to the discussion at hand ...address the points made in the article directly not Atomic_piggy's post ..you rated it a 1/10 ..justify your rating please

 

[Sidewinder]

I need to take a nap first mkay.

 

[Nemesis6]

1. Invoke a terrifying internal and external enemy - So invoking the very end to democracy is a bad thing?

2. Create a gulag - That's bullshit/Amnesty International talking; They actually said that, can you believe it? Retards.

3. Develop a thug caste - Develop? I think the villains presented themselves quite nicely. You can debate all you want about Saddam, but the fact of the matter is, he's still an evil tyrant and there are actually people who are glad that he's gone.

4. Set up an internal surveillance system - To avoid the said end to occur...?

5. Harass citizens' groups - Oh boy, this one gets me all excited. If only they harassed CAIR.

6. Engage in arbitrary detention and release - A terrorist just admitted guilt down there recently. I guess we should just tickle them with a feather for (insert Amnesty International's internationally accepted standard for detentions of people who are not covered under the Geneva conventions here)?

7. Target key individuals - Run, (ran)Tisi, run! One minute, driving around in which wheelchair. The next, splattered all over the pavement. Guess he couldn't run. Anyway, I don't see anything wrong with killing Islamists.

8. Control the press - Via the Jews, right? But more seriously, this one boggles the mind... If the evil, alien neocons control the media, why are there more liberal media outlets than conservatives, and WHY IS THERE ANYTHING ELSE THAN STATE-RUN TV? Saying that they control the media is retarded.

9. Dissent equals treason - That's stupid and true make-believe.

10. Suspend the rule of law - Ok, now we actually have a debatable point here. Let's discuss that, since that's probably the most reasonable point here. So, Stern, which laws do you think are being broken?

 

[jverne]

I need to take a nap first mkay.

hahahhahahahha.....:|

 

[DeusExMachina]

lincoln's been dead for over 140 years ...dont see how that is at all relevant to the discussion at hand ...address the points made in the article directly not Atomic_piggy's post ..you rated it a 1/10 ..justify your rating please

He's saying Lincoln did all these things during the American Civil War.

 

[CptStern]

1. Invoke a terrifying internal and external enemy - So invoking the very end to democracy is a bad thing?

2. Create a gulag - That's bullshit/Amnesty International talking; They actually said that, can you believe it? Retards.

3. Develop a thug caste - Develop? I think the villains presented themselves quite nicely. You can debate all you want about Saddam, but the fact of the matter is, he's still an evil tyrant and there are actually people who are glad that he's gone.

4. Set up an internal surveillance system - To avoid the said end to occur...?

5. Harass citizens' groups - Oh boy, this one gets me all excited. If only they harassed CAIR.

6. Engage in arbitrary detention and release - A terrorist just admitted guilt down there recently. I guess we should just tickle them with a feather for (insert Amnesty International's internationally accepted standard for detentions of people who are not covered under the Geneva conventions here)?

7. Target key individuals - Run, (ran)Tisi, run! One minute, driving around in which wheelchair. The next, splattered all over the pavement. Guess he couldn't run. Anyway, I don't see anything wrong with killing Islamists.

8. Control the press - Via the Jews, right? But more seriously, this one boggles the mind... If the evil, alien neocons control the media, why are there more liberal media outlets than conservatives, and WHY IS THERE ANYTHING ELSE THAN STATE-RUN TV? Saying that they control the media is retarded.

9. Dissent equals treason - That's stupid and true make-believe.

10. Suspend the rule of law - Ok, now we actually have a debatable point here. Let's discuss that, since that's probably the most reasonable point here. So, Stern, which laws do you think are being broken?

lol it's obvious you havent read a word of the article ..at least read the justification for each point ..you couldnt be further off if you tried ...and you even managed to slip in CAIR and a Jewish controlled media conspiracy ..boy you sure are predictable :rolling:

He's saying Lincoln did all these things during the American Civil War.

yes I realise this however I dont see how it's all relevant to the topic or to what atomic_piggy said

 

[DeusExMachina]

I guess his point is this has all happened before.

 

[CptStern]

yes but that doesnt make it alright

 

[kirovman]

1. Invoke a terrifying internal and external enemy - So invoking the very end to democracy is a bad thing?

Yep.

 

[AJ Rimmer]

yes but that doesnt make it alright

And to a further point, as the article pointed out; When Abraham Lincoln did these things, as did Roosevelt, they were both involved in conflicts to wich an end could be reached in a few years (peace treaties). The War on Terror, cannot ever end, unless Bush arbitrarily declares America has won, which will be wrong.

 

[15357]

*makes mental note*

 

[gick]

BLAAAAAAAH BLAAAAAH BLAAAAAAAAAAH

If you aren't going to bother reading the article, why post in the thread?

 

[kirovman]

Those crazy Danes.

 

[CptStern]

If you aren't going to bother reading the article, why post in the thread?

it's another opportunity to slip in CAIR and the jewish controlled media conspiracy

Thread title: "Half ep 3 announced"

Nemesis: "I bet the game will be awesome. I cant <cair are terrorists> wait to play as <anti-semities believe the jews own fox> Hordon Freemenz again! Have they <cair hates teh jews> announced a release <muslims eat babies> date yet?"

 

[DreamThrall]

[snip!]

That's about as much idiocy as I've seen crammed into a single post.

 

[Nemesis6]

Of course I didn't read the article! It's retarded. And anyone who believes America is fascist is an idiot. There's nothing to debate, it's just plain stupid. Hell, I think Greenland is run by a gigantic polar bear with telekinetic powers that he uses to constantly freeze the island further, to the end that it might one day kill the inhabitants and Kalaallit Nunaat(Island of Man/mankind) will become Kalaallit Naknek(Island of Bear), but I keep stuff like that to myself. That's how low I think of crap like this; It's one step below 9/11 conspiracy theories. It's that stupid.

 

[clarky003]

Is fascist? wait you havn't even read the title . It's steps to fascisim, and they are all there. Great post Stern.

 

[Jintor]

Of course I didn't read the article! It's retarded. And anyone who believes America is fascist is an idiot. There's nothing to debate, it's just plain stupid. Hell, I think Greenland is run by a gigantic polar bear with telekinetic powers that he uses to constantly freeze the island further, to the end that it might one day kill the inhabitants and Kalaallit Nunaat(Island of Man/mankind) will become Kalaallit Naknek(Island of Bear), but I keep stuff like that to myself. That's how low I think of crap like this; It's one step below 9/11 conspiracy theories. It's that stupid.

Oh, come on. That's ridiculous.

That aside, that kind of arguement is rather like saying "Of course I didn't do any research on that paper! The idea that everything is all tiny little bits connected to lots of other tiny little bits is ridiculous! And diseases being caused by tiny tiny tiny biting demons? Stupid! Ridiculous!"

 

[_Z_Ryuken]

This is certainly eye-opening.
I didn't really think it is possible, but an attack on the people really won't be face to face.

 

[gick]

Of course I didn't read the article! It's retarded.

How do you know if you havent even read the ****ing thing??????

 

[clarky003]

The old Neo Conservative mentality of 'if you don't read it, it doesn't exist!'.

 

[Operational]

Interesting read.
Bush has what, 18 months left? It will be interesting to see if this trend continues after the elections.

 

[Sloth]

But who will win the next election? Will the whole of America become another Florida?

Interesting read Stern, loved it - too bad too much of it is able to be figured out by the public - makes me fearfull of what we can't figure out.

 

[SAJ]

Its a useful read, not so much the death of democracy in the US, but rather signposts to a fundamental change in the nature of and limits to American democracy.
Out of the ten, point three I find the weakest, there is no "thug caste" equilvilent today. Hired mercenaries are certainly not the same as nazi brownshirts, no matter how convenient the comparison.

One critcism of the piece stuck with me, that it suffers from an "anyone but Bush" mindset, one that paints democrat complicity out of the picture.
Step eleven if you like, "absence of opposition" .

 

[CptStern]

Of course I didn't read the article!

that's almost sig worthy ..but I've grown attached to my current sig

It's retarded.

hmmmmmmmm:

Of course I didn't read the article!

it's clear here what's really retarded

And anyone who believes America is fascist is an idiot. There's nothing to debate, it's just plain stupid.

you keep digging yourself into the ignorance hole ...no! dig up stupid

Hell, I think Greenland is run by a gigantic polar bear with telekinetic powers that he uses to constantly freeze the island further, to the end that it might one day kill the inhabitants and Kalaallit Nunaat(Island of Man/mankind) will become Kalaallit Naknek(Island of Bear), but I keep stuff like that to myself.

yes except she justifies what she says you however cant justify your rediculous scenario ...but you wouldnt know that because you havent read the article ..so in other words you are further highlighting your ignorance by repeatedly proving you havent a clue as to the topic at hand

That's how low I think of crap like this; It's one step below 9/11 conspiracy theories. It's that stupid.

Naomi wolf is a respected american writer ...nowhere near the same as some guy in his mother's basement cooking up conspiracy theories about black ops operation to take out Cair or the jewish controlled media ...but you wouldnt know this because once again you havent read the article

Its a useful read, not so much the death of democracy in the US, but rather signposts to a fundamental change in the nature of and limits to American democracy.
Out of the ten, point three I find the weakest, there is no "thug caste" equilvilent today. Hired mercenaries are certainly not the same as nazi brownshirts, no matter how convenient the comparison.

One critcism of the piece stuck with me, that it suffers from an "anyone but Bush" mindset, one that paints democrat complicity out of the picture.
Step eleven if you like, "absence of opposition" .

agreed ..I also think the thug caste is more symbolic: "'You're either with us or against us' mentality ..the same mentality that will silence any discourse any criticism against the government, point eleven if you will. certainly not a true comparison to the brownshirts however somewhat more effective imho

 

[Jintor]

Damnit, I read Stern's post thinking it was Numbers for a second and I thought "Finally, Numbers is thinking logically!"

Damnit, you got my hopes up.

 

[gick]

Number 3 (Develop a Thug Caste) is very tenuous - as mentioned earlier I really dont think private security contractors in Iraq are in any way the same as Brownshirts. Last I heard they didnt go around beating up Democrats at the behest of the President.

The rest are pretty much spot on.

Number 5 (Harass Citizens Groups) is especially interesting as it has a historical precedent (namely COINTELPRO), not to mention the expansion of the legal definition of terrorism.

One critcism of the piece stuck with me, that it suffers from an "anyone but Bush" mindset, one that paints democrat complicity out of the picture.

I disagree:

With the gutting of traditional checks and balances, we are no less endangered by a President Hillary than by a President Giuliani - because any executive will be tempted to enforce his or her will through edict rather than the arduous, uncertain process of democratic negotiation and compromise.