First Map - Help Needed

[The Smokster]

Hello all, first post, first map, first real set of answers needed

Firstly, i'd like to say this is a wicked set of forums, most of the help i've needed i've found out by "googling" or visiting numerous forums and searching there.. but this one, tis da best :E

I've been wanting to make a map for years (since playing cs when it first came out) so... after years of playing on the maps etc... i decided to "ave a go"... (during 2 weeks of sick last month!!)

I've decided to base the map on in an airport (fed up of seeing unrealistic environments/situations to run around in CS)...

This is going to be map 1 of 4 (i hope to base it on 4 different scenarios - hostage, vip, escape and of course, bomb)

Like i said, tis me first attempt at mapping so be nice...

You can download revision C HERE

My questions are:

I've finally worked out how to embed the custom textures using BSPZIP (quite easy when you get used to it) but i need to know how and what else i need to embed to make it easy for people to download the map when they join server... (don't want people missing the custom lighting effects/hostage nav paths/anything custom to the map)

I'e got a custom .rad file used (named the same as the map)... how does 1 embed this? does 1 need to embed this or is it automatically downloaded from the server?

The same goes for the nav file used by the hostages... does 1 need to embed this as well? or again, is it automatically created/downloaded by the server?

I've used some props that seem to be acting weird ingame... some warehouse shelves allow people to jump "through" them... vending machines allow people to jump "inside" and the other day a friend was doing a brilliant "dustybin" impression when he jumped "into" a bin prop which left me in stiches seeing his little head and arms popping out this bin in this hallway... faf (funny as f..K)... how does 1 stop this? i think i gave them "props_physics_multiplayer" properties.. is this why??

So far i've compiled the map, embedded the textures and added a custom text file for the title etc...

What else should i need to embed or what files should one be putting on the server for everyone else to automatically download??

Any help or feedback on the map greatly appreciated.

Thanks in advance

Smokey

PS Sorry if this doesn't really make sense... i got a major hangover and that reef i just had didn't help :farmer:

 

[_Meitsi_]

Mmm looks cool

 

[The Smokster]

Still needs quite a bit of work adding more props, custom textures and then good old "optimising" but it's not looking or playing too bad considering tis me first attempt :afro:

I've been told it's a bit too big.. so i might section some of the map off but then again :sniper:

Still need help with my original post at top tho

 

[Dead-Inside]

Most props shouldn't actually be simulated (aka prop_static). That'll solve most of your model problems. Otherwise, prop_physics_multiplayer is a lot less Network-tense and 'should' always be used, though I always tend to use prop_physics instead because it's just so much better as to what gameplay wants.

 

[The Smokster]

I'll try changing the properties on the affending props to static then, thanks for the tip... any answers to the others?

Oh yeah, added some new images to original post...

 

[Dead-Inside]

1. Round off some edges, it'd make it look a lot better.

2. The staircase in the big roomthingy shouldn't have "solid" handles on the side but should have the same as the top floor. Just use the texture tool and rotate them 45 degrees (Or whatever your staircase is degreed at) to get the right look.

3. On the last screen, the wall shouldn't have a border because that's meant if it either ends or a cealing takes over (That's where you use a boarder real life you know).

4. On the same screen, try adding some detail to the walkway. I don't know what but it needs outside decorations (I believe the texture itself makes it look bland).

5. On the 4th pic, it's way too open. Add props or walls (With a senario) to seclude the area. Right now it doesn't look realistic.

6. Overall, some broken floortiles would be good. It's simple to do, just create a new brush with the same texture and tweak it so you only get one tile on your new brush. Make it realistically thin or thick. Make a hole or something like that in your tile floor (Doesn't have to be anything underneath, cs_italy/concrete1_1 is a great texture to make it look like ... whatever it's called, the stuff you place tiles on) and then place as many or almost as many bricks as seem to have been removed from the floor somewhere around the place. It's a real mood-creater, especially if done subtle. Make the placed tiles either func_illusionary or func_detail. func_detail just makes the engine not draw them while working on VVIS, func_illusionary lets players pass them without having to walk over them, which may or may not otherwise be an annoyance.

7. Same thing goes for the cealing on the 4th pick... How about creating a hole in the cealing (Just make it look like some tiles were removed, they don't have to be anywhere in this case, but try to make an extra tile in there so it's not a SQUARE hole) with pipes showing that run ontop of the other tiles. Creates realism, looks good, and hopefully removes some of they gay-open-space feeling, it still needs more though .

That's it for now. If you want me to DL and give you more crits, I can. Probably a lot more to be said . Good luck.

Regards
Dead-Inside

 

[mabufo]

That was your first map?

=0

 

[The Smokster]

Yeah, why do you ask?

Still needs alot of work like adding some more props/debris etc... but the majority of it is done

By all means, please download the current version, have a play and leave some feedback, good or bad, feedback is more than welcome, i am afterall, still learning

 

[mabufo]

For your first map, I have to say that is pretty kickass... My first map consisted of a 12 ft by 12 ft room that had a pop machine in the middle and one light.

 

[The Smokster]

lol, thanks for the comments

Believe, it hasn't been easy, almost 2 weeks of figuring out stuff but bit by bit i've just expanded it adding more detail here and there etc... its just soooooooo time consuming, and the worse thing is now, i tend to look around the maps i'm playing rather than looking for the nme usually rendering myself dead

 

[mabufo]

Well, I'm passed all the basic basics.. but before I really start trying to make a map.. I want to understand the workings on NPCs and things like that - so I can make a real killer single player bit.. Catch my drift? Once I get the gist of that I'll move into the sort of thing you have mapped...

I got big plans.. I just feel that I need to learn the workings of things before I move along...

Cheers with the map you made though. Killer.

 

[Dead-Inside]

Well learning about AI is a real bitch. I don't know much myself yet, though I do know that you should use a shitload of hints (info_NAMEHERE) depending on which AI you're adressing, and what state he's in.

I don't think it's that complicated to learn what to use for who, but to get it to work right is another bit.

@ The Smokster, I believe you have skills for this being your first map My first map was fullbright, I remade it later and it's on these boards. Have a look at fy_glassed_final (search) if you want, nothing to look at really. My second map, also an FY map, was a bit more complex with a 3d skybox, and some other stuff. I think it turned out quite nice... Not uploaded anywhere yet though.

Basically what I'm saying is that this is excellent.

 

[The Smokster]

Can anyone help with the following??

I've finally worked out how to embed the custom textures using BSPZIP (quite easy when you get used to it) but i need to know how and what else i need to embed to make it easy for people to download the map when they join server... (don't want people missing the custom lighting effects/hostage nav paths/anything custom to the map)

I'e got a custom .rad file used (named the same as the map)... how does 1 embed this? does 1 need to embed this or is it automatically downloaded from the server?

The same goes for the nav file used by the hostages... does 1 need to embed this as well? or again, is it automatically created/downloaded by the server?

I've used some props that seem to be acting weird ingame... some warehouse shelves allow people to jump "through" them... vending machines allow people to jump "inside" and the other day a friend was doing a brilliant "dustybin" impression when he jumped "into" a bin prop which left me in stiches seeing his little head and arms popping out this bin in this hallway... faf (funny as f..K)... how does 1 stop this? i think i gave them "props_physics_multiplayer" properties.. is this why??

So far i've compiled the map, embedded the textures and added a custom text file for the title etc...

What else should i need to embed or what files should one be putting on the server for everyone else to automatically download??

 

[Dead-Inside]

Uh, well.. I thought I told you to change the vending machine and most other props to prop_static? It's as simple as that. For things you really want/need to be affected by physics, use prop_physcis and drop the multiplayer tag. It's just different kinds of physcis usage where the later needs more system resources but acts a LOT better. Prop_physics_multiplayer doesn't even allow you to stand on a barrel, it just tried to push you away from the object.

As far as embedding goes, that's something I haven't done yet.

 

[The Smokster]

Cheers DI,

I've done that now, seems to have done the trick

Still need help on embedding/including certain custom files that go with map??

.rad file

navigation for hostages

cubemaps

Just needed to know how these are included with maps??

Obviously if i was distributing it via a .zip file its easy (just put them all in Zip, with a readme explaining where to extract each file etc...) but.... how does one ensure a client downloads ALL the necessary files from the server??

 

[The Smokster]

Revision D now availible for download and evaluation, should anyone being willing to add their 2 pence worth

get revision D HERE

 

[Dead-Inside]

As far as cubemaps go, they take 6 images of the sorroundings and display them through reflecting surfaces (To fake reflection).

I never got how to use them until I read it in a thread not so very long ago (Which, btw, does a great lot for any map).

You should only bind them to a surface if it's a water surface, else it should not have a picked surface.

To use them best, place them anywhere light changes. Generally this would be in every room and hallway. Try to place them at eyehight, 64 units.

When you've done this, go in to the game after compiling, go to the console, and type buildcuemaps. This will take the screenshots and store them in your .bsp. This is a onetime thing, I might add.

--

If you already got them working and just wondering "how they're distributed". They're stored in the .bsp, so no need to embed anything there, simplest thing ever.

 

[Phisionary]

few things:

The next too screens show that this map is way too dark, at least IMO.


There are some texturing problems. These should have the 'treat as one' checkbox checked, probably.


There are too many open spaces with no obvious purpose.


this bench does not fit the decor. also, the tile floor texture is actually intended to be used sporadically, I believe. The black squares are actually missing tiles, doesn't seem like an airport would be that shabby. Meh. :\


Watch out for these kind of props, especially in groups. You can get stuck on them, can can be a major PITA.


You can only go through this window from the outside. If this isn't on purpose, you might wanna make the opening bigger, or make the frame 'illusionary' (this might fix the problem).


Other comments: too big, takes minutes to crosee the map. camper nightmare.

path to objectives needs to be more obvious. I wandered around for quite a while wihtout having a clue where I was going. Of course I like fy maps, mybe it's just taste.

Round off a few corners, make some variations in angles and such. feels pretty square. a lot of airports have curved terminals and sloped hallways, you could consider that.

For a first effort (something I'm working up to myself) looks great. :cheers:

Edit: oh, and the hostages wouldn't follow me. But I don't know if that was my fault... maybe cause there was no-one else on the server? Dunno.

 

[The Smokster]

Wow, thanks for the feedback Phisionary

Wasn't expecting that, but some very good comments which i will certainly consider :E

Regarding the cubemaps, are you sure these are automatically embedded once buildcubemaps has been performed??

Ref the hostages not following... again, i've run nav_generate and they do follow me on my PC, but again, should the nav file be inbedded with bspzip or should it be automatically included in the bsp once nav_gen has been run??

Thanks again for the help/comments, much appreciated

Steve

 

[Dead-Inside]

I wouldn't tell you something like that unless I was sure. It takes the screenshots and places them in your .bsp automatically.

You should also restart the map so that the cubemaps align themselves properly to the grid (Aka, your map).

 

[The Smokster]

It takes less than 30 seconds to get to hostages (as CT) from spawn, and thats via the longest route, the quickest route probably takes about 12 seconds... not that big really

DI - Thanks for the heads up on cubemaps

Regarding the floor tiles, i think they're supposed to be used like that, ie its a whole texture, the black tiles are part of pattern (as far as i'm aware).

I'm going to enclose some of it off (mainly the T spawn) to break it up a bit more for game play and visual effects etc...

Ref the window - i found no problem getting through it either way?

I did also try making some smooth corners but couldn't quite get the texture to look right?? so i decided to make them square corner, for ease more than anything :naughty:

Am also going to add a vent to gain access to hostage rooms, as advised by clan members who've been testing it.

Thanks for all the feedback and comments..

Will keep you all updated as and when they happen (the updates that is :smoking: )

Still need help on certain things but will endeavor to work it out meself, failing that, i'll be back on here posting my woes :afro:

If anyone can help with the following....

.rad files - does one embed these or do they have to be downloaded seperately from the server??

navigation file (for hostages) where is this kept? embedded or not??

Cheers

Steve

 

[The Smokster]

Hang on....

Think i'm being a bit dull here

Being as the .rad file is referenced when compiling, i take it it doesn't actually need to be included with the map for distribution (as a seperate mapname.rad file), as the engine has worked out the light values during compilation

In other words, the client (player) won't even have to have the seperate .rad file as it's already been used as needed when compiled...

Maaaaan, confusing meself ere :naughty:

Am i right on this??

Sorry if i'm being a n00b (i am) but i'm still figuring this mapping business out :monkee:

 

[Dead-Inside]

Ref the window - i found no problem getting through it either way?

He's talking about the edge around the window. You can jump up on the ledge, then you may have to jump again to get in to the actual window, because it's another step up. Makes perfect sense.

 

[The Smokster]

Ahhh i gotcha now

nice 1, just changed all the bottom of the window frames to "func_illusionary" :cheers:

 

[Phisionary]

yeah. I tried it again.. I got through. Can't explain it, I tried 3 or 4 times before, couldn't get through it. Well, I still thin you could make the frame non-solid or make a player clip brush that extends to the width of the wall, just to make it a bit easier. [edit]Ah-hah. I c u got it. nm.[/edit]

Im pretty sure about the floor tiles. If you look losely, they have some sort of bump mapping to show how theres a drop off, and the darker textures have a spot. looks like glue to me.
meh. i dont care, just pointing it out.

the sparky sound effect seems a bit loud.
or I just don't like it, really. there's two parts, sound-wise. one of them sounds funny to me. hmm. hard to explain.

As for round walls. just selct all the faces an check the 'treat as one' box. there are several cases of mis-aligned textures that could benefit from this. as for rounded walls, I'm not hung up on it, you level looks pretty good without it, just a tad to squared off. Maybe some aditional props of something, I dunno.

There are some glass doors that you can't get through. I'd like to see that made more obvious. Stack some crap up against them or something.

There was a fire-extinguiser settign on the floor. Every fire extinguisher I've ever seen was on the wall.

There are some hallways with posters, it seems that you could offset the posters or something, so they're not right across from one another. just a thought.

Could put some more cover sitting around. Stacks of luggage or something.

 

[The Smokster]

Thanks Phisionary

Some very good comments, which i'm already implementing

Will have a go at smooth corners if i can as well

On the topic of props, do you know of any that suit placement in an airport? I fould the single suitcase but i cant just use the same one ovr and over again, would look pants

Any models you know of that you think would suit this map, let me know beit suitcases, terminals, any other props etc..

Thanks again

Steve

 

[Dead-Inside]

As far as smoothing corners go, use the archtool, or displacementmaps (Both work wonders).

 

[ganjaman™]

Good first map!

Im not really sure what you mean by including the .rad file , but what i do know and found out just before i released my map is that you need a .res file if you want to make sure a player will download the files that go with the map from the server but i dont see what the .rad has to do with anything but i havent slept for a long time so it might be me

 

[The Smokster]

Thanks for the feedback Ganja

Any more information on what this .res file should include??

Just want to make sure that when people download the map from server, that they don't miss anything out...

I've worked/found out

cubemaps are automatically embedded into the map
.rad file is not needed for client
mapname.txt for map information (i take it this is called via that .res file)
Textures are embedded via bspzip

Navigation file for hostages for example... I take it this is called for via the .res file??

Anything else i need to include?

Would be nice to see a list of files needed to be called for in this .res file or a list to show what files are needed altogether for correct distribution of your map etc...

Any links or tut's for creating this ".res" file you know??

 

[Dead-Inside]

I can tell you that you only need a .bsp and a .txt and you still get the .txt displayed in the map, nothing to do with .res files.

The navigationpaths are in the .bsp, actually almost everything is, except maybe custom sounds, models and textures, which can be embedded into it if I'm not mistaken?

What were you planning on using the .res file for?