Fitna

[Gray Fox]

In my opinion the movie is pretty much meh. It has nothing new or more shocking then what
has been shown before, it's not smart or insightful.
Nor is it as personal and powerful as submission by Theo van Gogh.

But you probably want to see what all the fuzz is about.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=37w-aXGk8M0

 

[PvtRyan]

What I posted on SA:

Anyway, this film is a bit of a joke. It's really nothing that hasn't been made or shown before. It's deeply, deeply sad that our spineless government has made such a big deal of it, because without that, who would've known of this film? Equally bad of our government is to assume that Muslim outrage will follow this film. I would be more offended if I were a Muslim by the expectation of the Western world that I would set embassies on fire than by the film itself. Hell, it probably will happen to a certain degree (which, again, wouldn't have happened if the whole thing wasn't so blown up) but to see Muslim violence as a natural consequence of a fucking movie is incredibly condescending.

I'm quite jealous of the Danish media, government and the Danish PM, who seem to have some semblance of a spine. That's how you defeat extremism.

Balkenende is a disgrace.

 

[Shakermaker]

What an anti-climax.

 

[soulslicer]

I was expecting some clashes by now..

 

[Nemesis6]

Well, the U.N is in full gear trying to be censorship bullies -

Following is the text of the statement by UN Secretary-General Ban Ki-moon on the film Fitna:

I condemn, in the strongest terms, the airing of Geert Wilders? offensively anti-Islamic film. There is no justification for hate speech or incitement to violence. The right of free expression is not at stake here. I acknowledge the efforts of the Government of the Netherlands to stop the broadcast of this film, and appeal for calm to those understandably offended by it. Freedom must always be accompanied by social responsibility.

The United Nations is the centre of the world?s efforts to advance mutual respect, understanding and dialogue. We must also recognize that the real fault line is not between Muslim and Western societies, as some would have us believe, but between small minorities of extremists on different sides with a vested interest in stirring hostility and conflict

http://www.un.org/News/Press/docs/2008/sgsm11483.doc.htm


What's that you say? Freedom with responsibility? Hold on, what you're really saying is the exact same thing as during the Muhammed cartoons - "You can say what you want, but you can't say that.", and now Ban Ki Moon, being the pathetic shill that he is, takes it a step further like many did under the "cartoon-crisis" and calls for censorship. Ban Ki Moon should stick to what he does best - Putting flowers at Arafat's tomb.

 

[No Limit]

If I had to bet I would bet that this movie is going to built around the fear of stupid naive people. But I really can't say since this movie hasn't even been released yet. However, network solutions which was hosting the official web site for this moive actually removed the web site before any content was published on it saying it violated their terms of use. How in the world can something that hasn't been published yet violate their terms of use?

I think people are making way too big of a deal out of this. Yes, there will be muslims in the streets burning shit down. There are idiots in every large group, especially a large religious group.

 

[smwScott]

There are a lot of violent and hateful messages spread throughout the Koran. This is true of most religions but particularly of Islam. Denying it is just pleading ignorance.

That doesn't mean that every Muslim is violent or hateful, but it is a fact of the religion. It's also a fact that those violent and hateful messages are the impetus for much of the extremism and violence prevalent throughout the Middle East and for almost all major terrorist activity.

The majority of the Islamic world simply disregards these parts of the text because intellectually and morally they know that it's wrong, just as every major religion is selective in terms of what it wants to acknowledge about its religion. However, a significant portion of Muslims do adhere strictly to the words of the Koran and are the cause for a tremendous amount of violence, fairly opening up the religion to judgment.

And on another note, censorship is never the answer. By censoring films like this or the hateful cartoons you are doing nothing but giving attention to the antagonizers and empowering the extremists.

 

[kattmat]

There are a lot of violent and hateful messages spread throughout the Koran. This is true of most religions but particularly of Islam. Denying it is just pleading ignorance.

That doesn't mean that every Muslim is violent or hateful, but it is a fact of the religion. It's also a fact that those violent and hateful messages are the impetus for much of the extremism and violence prevalent throughout the Middle East and for almost all major terrorist activity.

The majority of the Islamic world simply disregards these parts of the text because intellectually and morally they know that it's wrong, just as every major religion is selective in terms of what it wants to acknowledge about its religion. However, a significant portion of Muslims do adhere strictly to the words of the Koran and are the cause for a tremendous amount of violence, fairly opening up the religion to judgment.

And on another note, censorship is never the answer. By censoring films like this or the hateful cartoons you are doing nothing but giving attention to the antagonizers and empowering the extremists.

I'd like to see these violent messages in the Koran, since most of what I've seen quoted so far is merely cherry-picking by people who are either unaware of were the quotes come from or people who know the context but ignores it. If there are such horrible messages in the Koran I'd love to see the exact quote.

 

[smwScott]

There are lots. I will list some if you like, but a quick Google search (or preferably a look through the actual Koran) will turn up many more. I'm not saying the entity of Islam is necessarily special or worse than other religions, as you will find many similar passages in the Bible. I'm saying that a significant portion of Islamic followers have chosen to take the text literally and as a result have caused untold chaos and violence. These people are using the religion as a justification and as a tool to control the masses who support them. This in turn opens up the flaws and negative aspects of the religion to criticism.

As you see, just like other religious texts, the Koran is full of contradictions. Parts tell of a loving and peaceful Allah, while others encourage savage violence:

Sura (8:12) - "I will cast terror into the hearts of those who disbelieve. Therefore strike off their heads and strike off every fingertip of them"

Bukhari (52:177) - Allah's Apostle said, "The Hour will not be established until you fight with the Jews, and the stone behind which a Jew will be hiding will say. "O Muslim! There is a Jew hiding behind me, so kill him."

Bukhari (52:256) - The Prophet... was asked whether it was permissible to attack the pagan warriors at night with the probability of exposing their women and children to danger. The Prophet replied, "They (i.e. women and children) are from them (i.e. pagans)."

Tabari 7:97 The morning after the murder of Ashraf, the Prophet declared, "Kill any Jew who falls under your power."

Ibn Ishaq: 327 - ?Allah said, ?A prophet must slaughter before collecting captives. A slaughtered enemy is driven from the land. Muhammad, you craved the desires of this world, its goods and the ransom captives would bring. But Allah desires killing them to manifest the religion.??

Ibn Ishaq: 992 - "Fight everyone in the way of Allah and kill those who disbelieve in Allah."

There are many other flaws of the religion. The violent and backwards Sharia law that is in effect in many Muslim countries mandates intolerance and prejudice. Women are persecuted and treated as inferior. Punishment for crimes are doled out in an extremely unjust manner. Stories of women being executed for defending against rape make mainstream news but there are many more examples that occur on a regular basis.

There is nothing inherent in this religion or any other that prevents it from being criticized and discussed openly. This out of control sense of political correctness and fear of offending people is what allows these extremists to gain so much ground in the mainstream and continue unabated.

All quotes can be found here: http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/fundamentals/hadithsunnah/muslim/019.smt.html#019.4321

 

[Nemesis6]

1 and 2 were the ones that came to my mind immediately. And there's so, so much more. Oh well, one smiting at a time.

 

[soulslicer]

Read about it in the papers that the film was taken off the official website and there's a shitload of condemnation and riots due to the release, just look.

http://news.google.com.sg/news?hl=e...agr&ie=UTF-8&resnum=1&ct=title&ncl=1144087794

 

[Laivasse]

No one can say that I have any love or sympathy for Islam, but I do have a love for balanced, insightful film-making and from the looks of this preview, that is not what Fitna is. I have a suspicion it will be a load of alarmist appeals to emotion, but I'm yet to see it in full so I'll suspend judgement until I do.

 

[Shakermaker]

Read about it in the papers that the film was taken off the official website and there's a shitload of condemnation and riots due to the release, just look.

All is quiet in the Netherlands. No riots here.

 

[Nemesis6]

All is quiet in the Netherlands. No riots here.

Patience, it's not out yet. When it is, the Ummah will take action.

 

[PvtRyan]

Patience, it's not out yet. When it is, the Ummah will take action.

Uh... it's been out for two days.

 

[Kula Meenur]

All is quiet in the Netherlands. No riots here.

Give my best to Pettelaarse Schans in Den Bosch. that's gonna go off when i get there this year! :thumbs: