Fragmaster Leaves PHL, Thanks HL2.net(?)

[-JeZ-]

I have no opinion on Fragmaster since I've never followed PHL for any length of time so the fact that he's quit PHL doesn't effect me at all.

Still, he's got to earn his $$$'s somehow so here's to hoping that he's not in the dole queue next week.

 

[Iconoclast]

Dudes its just a frigging game, This is getting ridiculously out of hand, Do you think if they delayed the Sims 2 anyone would give a flying toss?

The Sims - best selling PC game of all time.

Delaying The Sims 2 - millions of disappointed people.

The answer is yes. You are stupid.

 

[Lobster]

I knew the sims was gonna end up being the bane of my existance.

 

[Sporky]

Lol! You can't deny it, the Sims is all consuming!

 

[Mr-Fusion]

Hell yeah people would get pissed off if The Sims 2 was delayed for half a year after drilling a specific date into their heads for months that was never reached.

 

[Lobster]

But .. if a game is so important in there lives, surely more personal questions need to be asked.

 

[The Mullinator]

But .. if a game is so important in there lives, surely more personal questions need to be asked.

People get just as excited and emotionaly involved with movies, sports, TV shows, books, etc. So it really isn't all that unusual and besides whats the big deal with being emotionally involved?

 

[Sprafa]

I've laughed of the comparation between Fragmaster & Hitler too.

Anyways , I've never been a Fragmaster hater, although I know man that are.
Well, now they all be happy....

 

[Lobster]

People get just as excited and emotionaly involved with movies, sports, TV shows, books, etc. So it really isn't all that unusual and besides whats the big deal with being emotionally involved?

Nothing, I guess I'm a bit pissed off myself, the potential is here to have a really fun and happy community, but stuff like this keeps happening to kick us in the stomach, just makes yah mad when it gets this way.

 

[Mr-Fusion]

Nothing, I guess I'm a bit pissed off myself, the potential is here to have a really fun and happy community, but stuff like this keeps happening to kick us in the stomach, just makes yah mad when it gets this way.

I feel the same way but we cannot sit idly by while devious customer relationship marketing is conducted by Valve.

"Sure we'll wait another year, take your time guys!! We don't mind that you hammered September 30th into us for months and then didn't say anything until 8 days before the date! That's ok by me! I only spent 5 months saving up for a computer only to play HL2, If you had said you were going to delay it i also could have delayed my purchase and got a computer that's twice as fast for the same price!! But that doesn't annoy me at all!! I trusted the employees at Valve to know what date the game would be out! That's ok. Let me just bend over"

It just doesn't work like that.

 

[Korgoth]

Not to sound like the inevidable valve fan boy here but answer this. He says the hacker was right they only had around 1/3 of the game complete before sept 30, now why the hell would they keep touting the "release is the same" If they knew for a fact it wasn't going to happen. Thats buisness suicide.

 

[The Mullinator]

Not to sound like the inevidable valve fan boy here but answer this. He says the hacker was right they only had around 1/3 of the game complete before sept 30, now why the hell would they keep touting the "release is the same" If they knew for a fact it wasn't going to happen. Thats buisness suicide.

Its the way I see it too. Your average moron would know how stupid making such a claim would be.

 

[TheSoupNazi]

I feel the same way but we cannot sit idly by while devious customer relationship marketing is conducted by Valve.

"Sure we'll wait another year, take your time guys!! We don't mind that you hammered September 30th into us for months and then didn't say anything until 8 days before the date! That's ok by me! I only spent 5 months saving up for a computer only to play HL2, If you had said you were going to delay it i also could have delayed my purchase and got a computer that's twice as fast for the same price!! But that doesn't annoy me at all!! I trusted the employees at Valve to know what date the game would be out! That's ok. Let me just bend over"

It just doesn't work like that.

Apparently it does, seeing as how that's exactly what they're doing.

It seems as if they've forgotten who gave them all of these millions to spend on HL2: The fans. Totally ignoring all of the problems with production and denying everything is really pushing a lot of us away, and things will never be the same.

In other words, Valve... I'm breaking up with you.

 

[Mr-Fusion]

Not to sound like the inevidable valve fan boy here but answer this. He says the hacker was right they only had around 1/3 of the game complete before sept 30, now why the hell would they keep touting the "release is the same" If they knew for a fact it wasn't going to happen. Thats buisness suicide.

Exactly and this is the source for much of the anger/confusion/etc.

Valve weren't counting on having their secrets revealed.

 

[The Mullinator]

People should not place the blame solely on Valve when they havn't even heard Valve's point of view.

Your declaring them guilty without hearing their defense.

 

[Sporky]

You'd have to ask Valve that question.

Personally I believe they genuinely thought theycould provide the game by that date, a lot of the groundwork had been done, they just needed to get the content sorted out. I think they were simply caught out by the time consumption of creating content for this generation of game.

I have pretty much come to the conclusion that whilst Valve have great designers, content creators and the like they don't have much idea about how to go about making a game. I'm not talking about actual gameplay or weapons, that sort of thing, I'm talking about the time management/focus of development side.

That's a lot easier to just ignore when you've got loads of time to start with and enormous resources to throw at it, but the hard fact is unless you nail down the management side (like critical path analysis and the like) you won't get it done.

I can't help but feel that around the beginning of August a quick checklist of what needed doing would probably have indicated that release wasn't going to happen, and you could probably have done that just as easily nearer to May. Good management would probably have saved them a lot of this embarrasement.

An alarming thought that crossed my mind is that management and lack of creative focus was precisely what happened to Daikatana..

Although I'm sure it won't be that bad. :|

 

[Mr-Fusion]

Silence is as good as guilt in my books

 

[-JeZ-]

Hehe Iconoclast. My fiance and I are looking forward to The Sims 2 actually. The 2 player mode on the *cough* XBOX *cough* was a lot of fun.

 

[TheSoupNazi]

Exactly and this is the source for much of the anger/confusion/etc.

Valve weren't counting on having their secrets revealed.

Is this the kind of thing that goes on with lots of other big games in development? I mean, is the PR ever this bad? Only catastrophe I can think of is Duke Nukem Forever, not much else.

 

[Lobster]

I agree, I also think no matter what valve has done, Just because some thief hacks in grabs everything he could see and bolts, does not make him the expert on valves development cycle, i believe the code he stole was probbally up to date, but the rest of it i think was hashed together from fragments on the programmers drives, the most up to date art content was probbally still on other drives with other people, (if you see what i mean).

Either way, if valve make there summer release, (I know there release claims arnt exactly the most solid things in the world) then it really doesnt make any difference, and all that would remain, is judging the game.

 

[Sporky]

Indeed, ultimately that's what will happen, people will judge the game on its merits against what else is out there.

(Or as seems to happen more often these days against a game that may or may not be coming out in a few months/years)

Lets just hope we're not judging it against Unreal2k9.

 

[Pi Mu Rho]

Lobster makes a very good point.

When developers go to E3, they tend to take a specific build made for E3, and not the full game so far - not least because that way they can't accidentally show something that shouldn't be there.

What Mr. Thief probably got was the content of the //e3/build and //e3/source directories (names made up)

Makes sense, no?

 

[el Chi]

Exactly and this is the source for much of the anger/confusion/etc.
Valve weren't counting on having their secrets revealed.

Are you saying that they had a lot of shady secrets like they only had 1/3rd done? Sorry I'm confused (Because I am a moron. Sadly :|)
Personally I think it's rubbish - why say that you would have it done in a matter of months, when you had only a third finished and you KNOW you'll disappoint everyone? It makes no sense whatsoever.
On the other hand, it's been a year and still no game, will we find out what they've been up to at e3?

 

[Lobster]

look at the doom3 alpha! that was made just for one rolling movie, there was nothing more to it, it was one rolling scripted demo.

 

[ferd]

pff, why make a thread here?

 

[TheSoupNazi]

pff, why make a thread here?

Because this is one of the few new developments in the HL2 soap opera that we've recently had.

 

[Sporky]

I think whatever the hacker stole is really beside the point, Fragmaster is independantly 'confirming' that there's no way the finished product was going to be ready by Sept 30th.

He doesn't say the hacker got everything that was there. Just that his claim Valve weren't ready to release was correct.

Which may or may not be true.. But frankly probably is.

The DooM3 'Alpha' was as someone says a good example of the sort of things devs take to E3. Eg a rolling scripted demo that doesn't really give much indication of what the actual final game will play like, just the effects they're going for. Of course no one who's hacked into id should there be such a person has ever said that was all they had.

 

[Gaemon82]

What about the people who bought a Radeon 9600XT or a 9800XT, a new PC, etc.... I mean, come on, how can you defend Valves attitude in this regard. They said: Go out and buy yourself a Radeon, because it will be the best card to run the game!
Wow, what a load of crap, back then they knew how long it would aprox. take to finish the game, and they knew there would be new GFX cards out by the time the game goes gold. Other companies don't tell you to buy new hardware now, when they know their game will be under developement for a few months more.

 

[Pi Mu Rho]

and Gabe has pretty much debunked what Fragmaster said. Admittedly, not in any detail, but he debunked it.

It all comes down to this:

Who do you believe?

 

[Gaemon82]

and Gabe has pretty much debunked what Fragmaster said. Admittedly, not in any detail, but he debunked it.

It all comes down to this:

Who do you believe?

Who has already lied once? Gabe or Fragmaster?

 

[Lobster]

Believe no one , Just ignore everything and when the game eventully comes out, Only then make your decision

 

[Pi Mu Rho]

Who is more likely to be in posession of the full facts? The guy that runs the company, or the ex-webmaster of a HL2 fan site who left because he stopped liking Valve?

Just playing Devil's advocate

 

[Sporky]

Wow, what a load of crap, back then they knew how long it would aprox. take to finish the game, and they knew there would be new GFX cards out by the time the game goes gold. Other companies don't tell you to buy new hardware now, when they know their game will be under developement for a few months more.

Like I said, I genuinely believe they didn't. Although IIRC the video cards release was pretty near the magic date and they might have mentioned it then.

Pff. :dozey:

 

[TheSoupNazi]

Who is more likely to be in posession of the full facts? The guy that runs the company, or the ex-webmaster of a HL2 fan site who left because he stopped liking Valve?

Just playing Devil's advocate

Gabe's motive in all of his statements is, when we get down to it, about $ and selling copies of the game once it's released. Frag's motive was the truth about the game and trying to let the fans know what was going on.
In the case of cut content, I do trust Frag's information.

 

[el Chi]

What about the people who bought a Radeon 9600XT or a 9800XT, a new PC, etc.... I mean, come on, how can you defend Valves attitude in this regard. They said: Go out and buy yourself a Radeon, because it will be the best card to run the game!
Wow, what a load of crap, back then they knew how long it would aprox. take to finish the game, and they knew there would be new GFX cards out by the time the game goes gold. Other companies don't tell you to buy new hardware now, when they know their game will be under developement for a few months more.

So what? Why do people make the assumption that because there new cards on the horizon that all of a sudden these 9800/Pro/XT cards are suddenly not going to be able to play HL2 or any new games? It's absolute boll*cks. Oh no you don't have the COMPLETE cutting edge! Those cards will be fantastic for at least the next two years and very competant after that. Christ on a bike...

 

[Sporky]

I'm prepared to bet Gabe wouldn't deny that the game wasn't ready for release by the 30th and frankly its their prevarication over announcing that the release was delayed that has led to the total breakdown in trust you're seeing meaning that yes, in many peoples eyes, Fragmaster does have more credibility.

(I don't believe for a minute on a project that has allegedly taken 3+ years of work that you don't know you're not going to hit more or less your finish date only a few days beforehand, and frankly if you don't you shouldn't be running said project).

 

[Pi Mu Rho]

Gabe's motive in all of his statements is, when we get down to it, about $ and selling copies of the game once it's released. Frag's motive was the truth about the game and trying to let the fans know what was going on.
In the case of cut content, I do trust Frag's information.

Or another way of looking at it is that Frag has an anti-Valve bias and set out to discredit Valve.

 

[Gaemon82]

Believe no one , Just ignore everything and when the game eventully comes out, Only then make your decision

Yes, you're right, that's what we all should do. I just think that emailing Gabe about this topic and hoping to get an honest reply (if any of Fragmasters claims are true) is a bit naive.
I mean, is he a Saint or what? He is just a man, like Fragmaster, and I don't think emailing Fragmaster about it would be a smart thing either, because we already know the answers.

 

[Gaemon82]

Who is more likely to be in posession of the full facts? The guy that runs the company, or the ex-webmaster of a HL2 fan site who left because he stopped liking Valve?

Just playing Devil's advocate

Of course he knows the facts, but do you believe he is going to tell you and risking his company's image.

 

[Pi Mu Rho]

Yes, you're right, that's what we all should do. I just think that emailing Gabe about this topic and hoping to get an honest reply (if any of Fragmasters claims are true) is a bit naive.

Pfft, I emailed Valve and there was no naiveté involved, I assure you.

I wanted to hear Valve's side to counterbalance Fragmaster's.

Let people make up their own damn minds.