France says "non"

[Feath]

I think it was.
Doesn't matters really, it's just shit thrown to the fan.

And I like his old name. Muddy Tough Guy = Durão Barroso. It was the name he used when he was my Prime Minister :upstare:

What's up with people trying to correct a Portuguese national about his own ex-PM's name ?

Well, it's just what came up when I was searching the BBC site. I couldn't find Durão anywhere. Whoops, my fault.

EDIT: And I could argue that I didn't correct you on his name. I was just saying what I thought you meant, hoping that in the spirit of European Cooperation and understanding, you'd correct me. Or something.

 

[Sprafa]

Well, it's just what came up when I was searching the BBC site. I couldn't find Durão anywhere. Whoops, my fault.

You're right, he changed it to sound a lot less peasant and more burgeouis name when he left us.

 

[marksmanHL2 :)]

Well that sucks....

 

[Venmoch]

As far as this constitution goes I can't say I'm for it.

Its been my experience that you can't apply the same set of rules to every country. It doesn't work. Just look at the impact of the EU directives of farming and their impacts on farming in the UK. It hasn't been that helpful.

And as far as bringing up the "French Military Defeats" you can go to hell. The French are not cheese-eating cowards. In the First World War they didn't loose. And anyway, in the Second World War they still fought on even after their country had fallen as the Free French alongside the other allied forces and the French Resistance who were slupplied by the allies. Not to mention their defense of Dunkirk where they managed to stop the Germans long enough to ensure an English retreat. So yeah, just because a country "looses" doesn't mean that they are cowards. In fact, they didn't loose WW2 at all.

 

[Feath]

As far as this constitution goes I can't say I'm for it.

Its been my experience that you can't apply the same set of rules to every country. It doesn't work. Just look at the impact of the EU directives of farming and their impacts on farming in the UK. It hasn't been that helpful.

And as far as bringing up the "French Military Defeats" you can go to hell. The French are not cheese-eating cowards. In the First World War they didn't loose. And anyway, in the Second World War they still fought on even after their country had fallen as the Free French alongside the other allied forces and the French Resistance who were slupplied by the allies. Not to mention their defense of Dunkirk where they managed to stop the Germans long enough to ensure an English retreat. So yeah, just because a country "looses" doesn't mean that they are cowards. In fact, they didn't loose WW2 at all.

For god's sake, the word is "lose".

 

[$kelet0r]

i'm really disappointed
the french just reacted to poor governance and screwed europe over
i really wnated to see this work - the constitution was actually really solid i read most of it last year
and i hate to see the english go 'oh its long and boring and bureacratic'
this coming from a country with no constitution but uses the thousands and thousands of english laws as its basis - oh the hypocrisy
i have yet to hear a good argument against the constitution when most europeans agree to various degrees that the eu is the way forward
i hope the process will go on - a majority will approve the treaty in europe - it remains to be seen if some countries will destroy all that hard work

 

[Feath]

i have yet to hear a good argument against the constitution when most europeans agree to various degrees that the eu is the way forward

The EU itself and the actual Constitution are two different issues. You can be for the EU but against the Constitution. A lot of people can't seem to understand this.

Being against the EU is not a valid reason to vote against the Constitution. Being for the EU is not a valid reason to vote for the Constitution.

 

[Sprafa]

Being against the EU is not a valid reason to vote against the Constitution. Being for the EU is not a valid reason to vote for the Constitution.

Not really. I'm so eager to dissolve my stupid lil' country into the EU I will vote into anything that destroys it the swiftest and cleanest way possible. :cheese:

 

[Kangy]

As far as this constitution goes I can't say I'm for it.

Its been my experience that you can't apply the same set of rules to every country. It doesn't work. Just look at the impact of the EU directives of farming and their impacts on farming in the UK. It hasn't been that helpful.

Thing is though, Britain doesn't actually need to keep farming at maximum levels. Most EU countries actually pay farmers to keep their fields empty for one harvest, because it's simply not needed. Seriously, farming just isn't really an important issue, and I don't know why people view it as such.

 

[Feath]

Thing is though, Britain doesn't actually need to keep farming at maximum levels. Most EU countries actually pay farmers to keep their fields empty for one harvest, because it's simply not needed. Seriously, farming just isn't really an important issue, and I don't know why people view it as such.

I'm pretty sure that farmers will view it as an important issue.

 

[Pogrom]

The EU itself and the actual Constitution are two different issues. You can be for the EU but against the Constitution. A lot of people can't seem to understand this.

Being against the EU is not a valid reason to vote against the Constitution. Being for the EU is not a valid reason to vote for the Constitution.

I agree with you, but unfortunately it is a little more complicated than that. Many feel that not adopting a EU Constitution in the very near future will seriously impact the EU's long-term viability.

That being said, I believe they could have worded the Constitution a little better. I'm still reeling over the snippet that was posted before.

Generally though, I can't help feeling sad at this result. I think for the EU to work countries need to diversify. You cannot have a protectionist economic policy forever...

 

[Feath]

I agree with you, but unfortunately it is a little more complicated than that. Many feel that not adopting a EU Constitution in the very near future will seriously impact the EU's long-term viability.

If it was so necessary why have a referendum? Surely, if you ask people whether they want something or not, both options must be viable.

 

[Asknoone]

EU = :| faces.

 

[Cons Himself]

the EU will have its constitution in the end. This is because politicians dont have to have a referendum to ratify it - it can simply be a parliamentary vote.

And they will just keep holding referenda every year till they get a yes vote than BAM. No more referenda.

Get with the programme peeps The EU isnt going away.

 

[JellyWorld]

Thing is though, Britain doesn't actually need to keep farming at maximum levels. Most EU countries actually pay farmers to keep their fields empty for one harvest, because it's simply not needed. Seriously, farming just isn't really an important issue, and I don't know why people view it as such.

I thought they pay the farmers to grow food then burn it?

 

[Feath]

the EU will have its constitution in the end. This is because politicians dont have to have a referendum to ratify it - it can simply be a parliamentary vote.

And they will just keep holding referenda every year till they get a yes vote than BAM. No more referenda.

Get with the programme peeps The EU isnt going away.

I know, but what's the point of the referendum if they'll just go another route?

 

[Kangy]

I thought they pay the farmers to grow food then burn it?

Well, it is definately something to do with idle production, anyway.

 

[gh0st]

In fact, they didn't loose WW2 at all.

And the soviets and the US win it

http://www.wpafb.af.mil/museum/history/wwii/etomap1.gif

I'd call that a loss.

 

[Feath]

And the soviets and the US win it

http://www.wpafb.af.mil/museum/history/wwii/etomap1.gif

I'd call that a loss.

Erm, this is not the thread for this kind of discussion.

 

[gh0st]

Erm, this is not the thread for this kind of discussion.

I was just replying to his post.

 

[The Monkey]

You bastard frogs! Why should they be able to decide about the future of entire Europe? But the very idea that 25 countries should vote yes is absurd. They should have made it so that half the people of EU must approve it. That's democracy. This is not.

 

[Feath]

You bastard frogs! Why should they be able to decide about the future of entire Europe? But the very idea that 25 countries should vote yes is absurd. They shouldn' made it so that hapf the people of EU must approve it. That's democracy. This is not.

Erm, you can't just say that if people don't agree with you their opinions shouldn't matter. We've ended up with Referendums, so that's how we'll proceed.

 

[The Monkey]

Erm, you can't just say that if people don't agree with you their opinions shouldn't matter. We've ended up with Referendums, so that's how we'll proceed.

What I'm saying is that France's population of 60 million will decide the fate of EU's population of 400 million.

 

[Venmoch]

And the soviets and the US win it

http://www.wpafb.af.mil/museum/history/wwii/etomap1.gif

I'd call that a loss.

Total military Defeat usually means that all military units of said country stop operating and fighting and stopping taking over the Government of the defending country. Which the French didn't do. Not to mention the French set up a tempory government.

Take a look at these two wiki's before ruling out the fact that the French lost.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Free_French_Forces

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/French_Resistance

The French had guts during World War 2 and bear in mind that many servicemen would not be alive today (including Americans) if the French didn't do what they did. The thing that many people fail to realise is that the French were still as instramental in the success in Allied Forces. I mean the Resistance were vital in passing on intelligence to the Allied forces on D-Day.

And on a more personal note, I'd rather share a trench with a Frenchman than an American.

However, this is off topic so I'll stop now. Which also stops me attacking your thoughts that the US "won" the war. It was the Allies.

 

[gh0st]

Yeah their temporary government was called Vichy France. You think that a government run outside the country has any bearing whatsoever? Thats laughable.

And by your definition no battle could ever possibly be won, because there are always people who fight back. France still lost because it was taken over by Nazi Germany and never caused the Germans to lose control. Comparable (even less effective) today to the insurgency in Iraq. A pain in the side but thats basically it.

And on a more personal note, I'd rather share a trench with a Frenchman than an American.

Its that kind of attitude that causes France to lose every war they involve themselves in. I'm done with this argument, feel free to make a new thread though

 

[PvtRyan]

Having the people vote over this through a referendum is the dumbest thing you could do. I mean, voting on a policitian who looks the coolest and hates killing babies the most is one thing, but asking the 'people' to vote over a complicated thing such as a constitution is an entire different matter. Most likely, they'll vote no here too, and the majority of those votes are protest votes against the government, not against the constitution. And no, I wouldn't vote yes, because I do not know enough to vote on it, so I simply wouldn't vote. However, the 90% that also knows shit about it like me, decides to vote regardless of that.

 

[Kangy]

Yeah their temporary government was called Vichy France. You think that a government run outside the country has any bearing whatsoever? Thats laughable.

I dunno, there's a lot of arrogance surrounding American "victory" in WW2. I feel that the struggles that Europeans entered are largely ignored by the media, and that American involvement is hyped up, and has nearly created a history that believes American involvement was the sole reason the Nazis couldn't hold Western Europe in the closing chapter of WW2, when Soviet Russia was in reality the real driving force.

I mean, since when has there been a popular movie or game based on one of the greatest feats of military organization ever, Dunkirk? There was something in the 50s, but even that looks rather lonely on iMDB.

 

[jonbob]

To paraphrase someone on Dunkirk: "it was a momentous achievment, getting all those troops out of France; just unfortunate they couldn't come up with some way of keeping them there."

 

[Kangy]

To paraphrase someone on Dunkirk: "it was a momentous achievment, getting all those troops out of France; just unfortunate they couldn't come up with some way of keeping them there."

True, but I don't really think the US could have stood their ground against the Nazis there. Remember, then the Nazis had just rolled over much of Europe relatively easily, with some Soviet co-operation. There was nothing like the "GPW" when France was invaded.

 

[gh0st]

True, but I don't really think the US could have stood their ground against the Nazis there. Remember, then the Nazis had just rolled over much of Europe relatively easily, with some Soviet co-operation. There was nothing like the "GPW" when France was invaded.

Yes we would have. America is the greatest nation on the planet, we would have stomped Germany's guts out with or without those commie pigs.

 

[Tr0n]

Yes we would have. America is the greatest nation on the planet, we would have stomped Germany's guts out with or without those commie pigs.

I hope that's sarcasm.

 

[gh0st]

I hope that's sarcasm.

**** no it wasent, you think I'm some kind of traitor?

:E

 

[Tr0n]

I know america isn't the greatest nation on the earth, so does that make me a traitor?No.

It means I'm not a dumbass, close minded, and I'm not ignorant.

 

[gh0st]

I know america isn't the greatest nation on the earth, so does that make me a traitor?No.

It means I'm not a dumbass, close minded, and I'm not ignorant.

I'm sorry I didnt make it obvious enough for the daft to understand I was being sarcastic.

 

[Tr0n]

You know...you could've just said you was being sarcastic. :|

Sarcasm + internet = bad combo

 

[gh0st]

sry sir ;(

 

[dream431ca]

Can someone tell me what the EU is and what it means for europe and france?? Sorry...haven't been in touch with affars from europe too much.

 

[jonbob]

The European Union is a collection of european countries and the constitution was supposed to grant inalienable rights (among other things) to every citizen of its member countries but some parts of it were apparently disagreeable to the french people.

 

[Feath]

The European Union is a collection of european countries and the constitution was supposed to grant inalienable rights (among other things) to every citizen of its member countries but some parts of it were apparently disagreeable to the french people.

I'd like to point out that the human rights part of the Constitution was quite tiny compared to the 325 pages of the Constitution.

EDIT: And talking about Human rights. The Constitution says this:

[every citizen shall have] the right to petition the European Parliament, to apply to the European Ombudsman, and to address the Institutions and advisory bodies of the Union in any of the Constitution's languages and to obtain a reply in the same language

.

The first time I read this I didn't notice it said "Constitution's languages". I was going to petition the European Parliament in Klingon, just so they'd reply in the same language.

 

[The Monkey]

Ombudsman?

Its that kind of attitude that causes France to lose every war they involve themselves in.

I can see that your knowledge of the history of France is small.