Freed Guantanamo inmates take up arms

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Nemesis6

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AT LEAST 30 former Guantanamo Bay detainees have been killed or recaptured after taking up arms against allied forces following their release.

They have been discovered mostly in Afghanistan and Pakistan, but not in Iraq, a US Defence Department spokesman told The Age yesterday.

Commander Jeffrey Gordon said the detainees had, while in custody, falsely claimed to be farmers, truck drivers, cooks, small-arms merchants, low-level combatants or had offered other false explanations for being in Afghanistan.

?We are aware of dozens of cases where they have returned to militant activities, participated in anti-US propaganda or engaged in other activities,? said Commander Gordon.
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http://www.theage.com.au/news/world...es-take-up-arms/2007/07/27/1185339258055.html


Interesting, huh?
 
I think I'd take up arms too if I was imprisoned in that place.
 
Or if i had to undergo some of the torture techniques they use in Guantanamo. Pretty evil stuff.
 
Like keeping you in the dark regarding your friday activities and asking you if you want some pork! :-S
 
Yeah, I'd probably want to shoot some American soldiers as well. Not really surprising...
 
Ah Guantanamo bay. Proof that evil people such as hitler, stalin, and several others live on in our hearts.
 
kirovman said:
I think I'd take up arms too if I was imprisoned in that place.
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I think I would rather try to be the good guy and lobby the UN for support against the facility. You would think that after all of the supposed violence and torture that they would seek a peaceful avenue against it.
 
Some of the things the prisoners mention is just totally bullshit. Remember the little Koran in a toilet story? Yep, turned out to be fake. This kind of puts it into perspective when a prisoner say he was tortured by guards "desecrating Islam". To be honest, I don't understand why America treats these people as well as they do. On one occasion, they staged a fake suicide, and when guards came in, they were attacked with fan blades, metal sharps, etc. These are NOT angels. "He claimed to have been exposed to water torture, sexual harassment and desecration of Islam while staying on Guantanamo. The documentary "Prisoner 345", interviews other former captives, Sami al-Hajj and Moazzam Beg, making similar claims of harassment." <- When you know that other prisoners have lied, etc, you have to a little skeptical.

And to quote Wikipedia: "It has been reported that prisoners showing good behavior have been rewarded not only with dates, pita bread and even Twinkies, but also 'Happy Meals', hamburgers or Filet-O-Fish sandwiches from the McDonald's located on the mainside of the base."

Somehow, when Amnesty Intl. calls it "the gulag of our time", I doubt that the prisoners of the Soviet Gulags were given twinkies and happy meals.
 
Nemesis6 said:
Some of the things the prisoners mention is just totally bullshit. Remember the little Koran in a toilet story? Yep, turned out to be fake. This kind of puts it into perspective when a prisoner say he was tortured by guards "desecrating Islam". To be honest, I don't understand why America treats these people as well as they do. On one occasion, they staged a fake suicide, and when guards came in, they were attacked with fan blades, metal sharps, etc. These are NOT angels. "He claimed to have been exposed to water torture, sexual harassment and desecration of Islam while staying on Guantanamo. The documentary "Prisoner 345", interviews other former captives, Sami al-Hajj and Moazzam Beg, making similar claims of harassment." <- When you know that other prisoners have lied, etc, you have to a little skeptical.

And to quote Wikipedia: "It has been reported that prisoners showing good behavior have been rewarded not only with dates, pita bread and even Twinkies, but also 'Happy Meals', hamburgers or Filet-O-Fish sandwiches from the McDonald's located on the mainside of the base."

Somehow, when Amnesty Intl. calls it "the gulag of our time", I doubt that the prisoners of the Soviet Gulags were given twinkies and happy meals.
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You might want to throw in some sources for those claims before Cpt. Stern and No Limit get in here. Get a head start for once.
 
Already mentioned the sources: Wikipedia. The source for the happy meal thingy is http://nation.ittefaq.com/artman/exec/view.cgi/44/24715
Anything else is on the wiki page.

No need for sources regarding the whole Koran incident. We all know about that.

By the way, Maxi, there's one problem: They don't just go to fight American forces. At least one was reported killed in Chechnya. I just remain skeptical of the agenda-driven NGOs who compare it to Soviet deathcamps. Now, 30 have returned to Jihad. Who wants to bet that they alledged torture and lied? There are probably quite a few problems at Guantanamo bay, but that's the way it is in prisons, especially when we're dealing with terrorists.

As commander Jeffrey Gordon says in the article: "These former detainees successfully lied to US officials, sometimes for over three years,"
Maybe, just MAYBE, the others did a bit of that, too.
 
so being tortured in many ways dont matter,if you get happy meals?

people who where kidnapped here by guerillas say they got happy meals too,but I dont think they enjoyed the kidnapping
 
Nemesis6 said:
Already mentioned the sources: Wikipedia. The source for the happy meal thingy is http://nation.ittefaq.com/artman/exec/view.cgi/44/24715
Anything else is on the wiki page.

No need for sources regarding the whole Koran incident. We all know about that.

By the way, Maxi, there's one problem: They don't just go to fight American forces. At least one was reported killed in Chechnya. I just remain skeptical of the agenda-driven NGOs who compare it to Soviet deathcamps. Now, 30 have returned to Jihad. Who wants to bet that they alledged torture and lied? There are probably quite a few problems at Guantanamo bay, but that's the way it is in prisons, especially when we're dealing with terrorists.

As commander Jeffrey Gordon says in the article: "These former detainees successfully lied to US officials, sometimes for over three years,"
Maybe, just MAYBE, the others did a bit of that, too.
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Your sources are wikipedia and an editorial?
 
Icarusintel said:
I think I would rather try to be the good guy and lobby the UN for support against the facility. You would think that after all of the supposed violence and torture that they would seek a peaceful avenue against it.
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Yeah, cause that's rational, and no-one who's been kidnapped, held illegally and tortured for years would maybe act a bit irrational.
 
If you put me in there, I'd sure as f*ck fight back when I got out. Come on, what do they expect?
 
Whats funny is it's the ones who were released without charge who took up arms.
 
Nemesis6 said:
...again
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You got any evidence to back that up?

Any way, I think it's a bit much to assume innocence so quickly. There is a good chance that some of those released were legitimate threats and this is a return to old habits. But it's also a good chance that many turned to violence after being falsely imprisoned and abused. Regardless of how many of the offenders were direct products of Guantanamo Bay, it's clear that the system in place has just muddled things up completely. Damn, I guess that's kind of what happens when you detain people with no trial and zero transparency into the process!

I think of this as something of an inevitability because G-Bay was so fucking broken to begin with, it was a matter of time until it had a collision with the civilized world and threw shit into the fan.
 
If I was attacked by dogs, starved, tortured, and raped, I would start shooting people too.
 
Nemesis6 said:
Like keeping you in the dark regarding your friday activities and asking you if you want some pork! :-S
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nothing bad ever happens while in US detention...

Detainees at the U.S. military prison at Guantanamo Bay, Cuba, were shackled to the floor in fetal positions for more than 24 hours at a time, left without food and water, and allowed to defecate on themselves, an FBI agent who said he witnessed such abuse reported in a memo to supervisors, according to documents released yesterday.

The accounts, gleaned from heavily redacted e-mails and memorandums, were obtained by the American Civil Liberties Union as part of an ongoing lawsuit. They suggest that extremely aggressive interrogation techniques were more widespread at Guantanamo Bay than was acknowledged by military officials.

In addition, several agents contended that military interrogators impersonated FBI agents, suggesting that the ruse was aimed in part at avoiding blame for any subsequent public allegations of abuse, according to memos between FBI officials
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http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A14936-2004Dec20.html

here are the censored interviews, emails and memos:


Records detainee stating that "he had been beaten unconscious approximately three or four weeks ago when he was still at Camp X-ray. According to REDACTED an unknown number of guards entered his cell, unprovoked, and started spitting and cursing at him. The guards called him a "son of a bitch" and a "bastard," then told him he was crazy. REDACTED rolled onto his stomach to protect himself . . . A soldier . . . jumped on his back and started beating him in the face. REDACTED then choked him until he passed out. REDACTED stated that REDACTED was beating him because REDACTED was a Muslim and REDACTED is a Christian. REDACTED indicated there was a female guard named REDACTED who was also beating him and grabbed his head and beat it into the cell floor."
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Records detainee stating that he was "treated harshly by U.S. soldiers at Peshawar and Kandahar. He was beaten on the head, chest, back, hands and feet. He could hear people screaming and shouting but could not see them because his face was covered
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[w]hen REDACTED was turned over to US authorities, he was beaten by the US military forces. REDACTED was turned over to US authorities REDACTED. He was taken by helicopter to an unknown location where he was beaten. While his eyes were covered, he was kicked in the stomach and back by several individuals. He noted American English accents. After being moved to an unknown facility in Bagram, his head was placed against the cement floor and his head was kicked. As a result of other beatings in Bagram, REDACTED received a broken shoulder. During one evening REDACTED was left outside of the facility where he was being held. The ground was wet and it was snowing. He was wearing only pants and a ragged shirt. As a result of being out in the cold, he became unconscious. . . . . When he was moved to Kandahar, he was not beaten as frequently and severely. Periodically, REDACTED was kicked and pushed. He was dragged three times to interrogations. On one occasion during prayer time, a soldier placed his foot on REDACTED head and sat on his head. REDACTED stated that the soldiers wore tan and brown camouflage uniforms, with US flags on their arms."
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Notes, "REDACTED explained that during his detention by the US military in Kandahar, Afghanistan, he was beaten by some guards as he was lying face down on the ground. He stated that he was not resisting, and was beaten for apparently no reason.
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REDACTED stated that one of the guards at Camp Delta recently removed his prayer cap from his head and threw it in the trash for no apparent reason. REDACTED does not think it to be religiously proper to use this cap again . . . . Accordingly to REDACTED he lost a filling from the right side of his mouth after he was kicked in the mouth by an American soldier in Afghanistan. REDACTED states that after he had been captured by the Northern Alliance and turned over to American soldiers, he was then interviewed on several occasions by the United States (US) military. According to REDACTED immediately after his final interview he was being taken back to the holding facility when he tripped and fell to the ground. REDACTED hands were handcuffed behind him at the time. Before REDACTED had an opportunity to stand up, REDACTED states a US soldier kicked him violently in his jaw. REDACTED states he did nothing to provoke this assault."
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"he had fabricated parts of his previous interviews with American interviewers because he feared torture . . . . He was taken to a house and was tortured for two (2) days. REDACTED was not afforded treatment for his wound. He was then taken to another house where he was again tortured and repeatedly ordered to admit he was Al' Queda and had met USAMA BIN LADEN (UBL). REDACTED finally admitted he was Al Queda and had met UBL and then his wound was treated."
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Notes that "REDACTED stated that all information about his travel to Afghanistan in previous interviews with U.S. authorities was coerced and fabricated. REDACTED claimed that Pakistani authorities threatened him with torture unless he admitted to attending REDACTED.
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During his detention he advised he observed the Northern Alliance guards randomly select detainees on a nightly basis and remove them from their cell. REDACTED advised the guards would then commence beating the detainee with sticks, chains and in some cases kicking the individual while on the ground. REDACTED advised on one occasion, a Pakistan Jihad fighter was removed from his cell by the guards, then beaten to death."
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ccording to the detainees, some of the guards are telling the detainees that while they are sitting in a cell in Cuba, American soldiers are having sex with the detainee's mothers. REDACTED has not personally heard these comments from the guards. He has not seen any cruelty by the guards. However, sometimes the guards are a little rough with him even though he is cooperative. . . . The detainees are extremely upset with the treatment they receive from the guards. The guards are treating the detainees like animals. . . . There is talk amongst the detainees that an unknown number of detainees are going to commit suicide for the purpose of protesting the treatment at Camp Delta and to protest keeping innocent men at Camp Delta."
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Notes that, "REDACTED claimed that detainees were often put in freezing cold isolation cells with no blankets for days at a time. He also stated that they (the detainees) are only given the equivalent of 12 hours of exercise per year. REDACTED also said that the guards often beat the detainees when they search their cells
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"after being interviewed by the two females, he was taken to the 'dark place.' At the 'dark place,' a hood was placed over his head and he was yelled at and beaten. REDACTED stated that because of this treatment at the hands of his captors he provided the interrogators with whatever information that they wanted to hear."
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REDACTED told agents he has heard of a mass suicide plan in the camp . . . Some three hundred detainees are going to commit suicide in a one hour period. REDACTED told agents he believed there were several reasons for this mass suicide. REDACTED told agents the detainees have lost all hope and have been mistreated by the guard."
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REDACTED . . . Gave an example of the behavior of Americans. A detainee returned from an interrogation with blood on his face and head. He said a female interrogator, after not getting cooperation from him, called four guards into the room. While the guards held him, she removed her blouse, embraced the detainee from behind and put her hand on his genitals. The interrogator was on her menstrual period and she wiped blood from her body on his face and head."
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Notes that "REDACTED did say that two detainees have recently complained of being sexually assaulted in the interview rooms. REDACTED did not say who the detainees were but did say that they were embarrassed because an interrogator had pulled their trousers down during the interview and sexually assaulted that individual. REDACTED felt that such practices 'might create a new terrorist.'
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that's just a sampling of over 4000 interviews conducted by the FBI with detained prisoners

http://www.aclu.org/torturefoia/released/052505/


once again Nemesis I feel I must point out that had you done your research you would have seen this for yourself ..the problem is that you're too dim witted to see anything beyond your narrowly defined partisan political point of view ..it seems to me that even in that you fail miserably as you cant seem to look beyond a headline: you dont even research your own material. You take everything at face value but only if it comes from the same side of the idiot fence you casually refer to as right wing. Making you look like a fool is getting tiring



oh and gitmo has hundreds of prisoners and the US has released hundreds more over the years ..you're being (as per usual) alarmist and above all else retarded ..mostly because these former prisoners does NOT represent every single former prisoner as you stupidly imply ..I could easily post this and claim the US lies about inmates released returning to the battlefiled because in this one incident it happens to be true so that must mean ALL claims of returning to the battlefield must therefore be false ..or at least that's what I would claim were I as stupidly naive as you are

US officials claimed that some of the released prisoners returned to the battlefield. The story, as told by American spokesmen as senior as Vice President Dick Cheney, is that these captives tricked their interrogators about their real identity, and made them think they were harmless villagers, and thus were able to "return to the battlefield."[123] However, when the DoD finally complied with a court order that required it to release the identities of all the captives who had been held in Guantanamo, none of the officially acknowledged names matched the names of the captives the DoD had asserted had returned to the battlefield.
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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guantanamo_Bay_detention_camp#Released_prisoners




oh and there are tons of incidents involving percieved Qu'ran abuses ..simply look in the fbi documents there's hundreds of incidents ...but you go right ahead and take that one incident that turned up partially false and you embrace that as ifd it's the only case that ever happened ..because you're too stupid to even think that there might be other incidents

but you go right ahead and cling to your idiotic news sources ..it's no skin off my back that you remain hopelessly ignorant of the world around you
 
Well, it looks like we should throw them back into Guantanamo and interrogate them some more.
 
you mean torture right?


especially these ones:

We are aware of dozens of cases where they have returned to militant activities, participated in anti-US propaganda
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wow!!! they're worse than hitler


or engaged in other activities,? said Commander Gordon.
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oh the humanity! other activities? screw torture they deserve to be drawn and quartered
 
Nemesis6 said:
Already mentioned the sources: Wikipedia. The source for the happy meal thingy is http://nation.ittefaq.com/artman/exec/view.cgi/44/24715
Anything else is on the wiki page.
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Wow, a happy meal for enduring torture, illegal imprisonment, kidnapping and no access to a basic and fair legal system. What a wonderful country we are, how could they hate us?

No need for sources regarding the whole Koran incident. We all know about that.
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No, we don't so please enlighten us. Haven't you learned yet that if something comes from your mouth you need to provide a source for where you got that information from. You are the Alberto Gonzales of this message board, so everything you post should be backed up.

You also said talked about the staged suicide, care to post sources for that too?
 
I like how Nemesis appears to be relying on the fact that they treat every single detainee in Guantanamo homogeneously. You really think they give out happy meals to every inmate when they're behaving? You honestly believe that there isn't some ****ed up torture shit going on in there? What, were those photographs doctored?

If I was detained for a year for NO CHARGE OR REASON, tortured to the point of excruciating physical or psychological pain, humiliated, and forced to watch symbols of my religion be desecrated, I'd be pissed when I got out regardless of however many Twinkies they gave me to make up for it.

That sort of behavior just reinforces the already extremely prevalent anti-American stereotypes in the middle east. I'd sure as **** believe this was an evil country after going through that, and you can be damn sure that I'd at least consider picking up a rifle and starting to fight.


MTGunNut, I'm going to go ahead and guess that you're a complete moron. Being forced to strip naked and lie on top of other naked men by foreign guards who have complete power over you is not something you can just shrug off, it's a shitty, humiliating experience. Idiot.
 
Ennui said:
I like how Nemesis appears to be relying on the fact that they treat every single detainee in Guantanamo homogeneously. You really think they give out happy meals to every inmate when they're behaving? You honestly believe that there isn't some ****ed up torture shit going on in there? What, were those photographs doctored?

If I was detained for a year for NO CHARGE OR REASON, tortured to the point of excruciating physical or psychological pain, humiliated, and forced to watch symbols of my religion be desecrated, I'd be pissed when I got out regardless of however many Twinkies they gave me to make up for it.

That sort of behavior just reinforces the already extremely prevalent anti-American stereotypes in the middle east. I'd sure as **** believe this was an evil country after going through that, and you can be damn sure that I'd at least consider picking up a rifle and starting to fight.


MTGunNut, I'm going to go ahead and guess that you're a complete moron. Being forced to strip naked and lie on top of other naked men by foreign guards who have complete power over you is not something you can just shrug off, it's a shitty, humiliating experience. Idiot.
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Im sorry, I was just trying to put some humor into this thread. I dont really know anything about the Guantanamo crap, so I just said something light and not too deep into the subject matter.


But still, being in a nekkid man pile is NOTHING, NOTHING, compared to cutting off civilians heads.
 
You're right. We should be cutting off their heads.
 
MTGunNut said:
Im sorry, I was just trying to put some humor into this thread. I dont really know anything about the Guantanamo crap, so I just said something light and not too deep into the subject matter.


But still, being in a nekkid man pile is NOTHING, NOTHING, compared to cutting off civilians heads.
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It still sucks. Also you might learn soon not to joke in politics, this is serious business :p I just pegged you as a brainless idiot and ran with it, so I'm sorry.

What I said still stands though, excepting the moron and idiot parts.
 
I think that I have a little bit of a middle ground view on this whole confict. A little bit of left and right...BUT, this place should TRANSCEND political views. If you can't see that Guantanamo Bay is an embarassment to the citizens of the US and a deplorable human rights violation in itself, you are a f***ing moron. It needs to close. But, since our govt doesn't answer to anyone and transcends basic laws...wtf are ya gonna do.
 
Lt. Drebin said:
I think that I have a little bit of a middle ground view on this whole confict. A little bit of left and right...BUT, this place should TRANSCEND political views. If you can't see that Guantanamo Bay is an embarassment to the citizens of the US and a deplorable human rights violation in itself, you are a f***ing moron. It needs to close. But, since our govt doesn't answer to anyone and transcends basic laws...wtf are ya gonna do.
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or clean up.
 
CptStern said:
gitmo is tame compared to the secret torture houses the US runs all over the world ...and how do you expect them to clean up if it's initiated by the US government? the CIA conducts torture sanctioned by the government ..it's not a "few bad apples" as your idiot president suggests
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Yeah but with that said, its not like 4/5 of the soldiers serving in the US Army are bad apples either. Nor with the CIA for that matter.
 
well 4/5 CIA torturers are definately bad apples ..probably the 5th one too

it takes a certain type of person to torture another
 
CptStern said:
well 4/5 CIA torturers are definately bad apples ..probably the 5th one too

it takes a certain type of person to torture another
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Yeah of course, but i wasn't talking about CIA torturers. I meant in general, people who work for the CIA.
 
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