Freedom of speech?

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NadNailer

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This forum is gradually becoming a ridiculous example of censorship, rather than moderation. It seems that no one can discuss the current issues around Halflife2 - such as the code base theft, the 'beta' (I mean the stolen goods), and when a possible release date will be.

Why not? Why shouldnt we be able to discuss whatever we want so long as it's civilised? Isnt there a concept of freedom of speech as a basic human right in most civilised countries in the world? Why should it be different here?

There's no need for this level of censorship. It's killing the forum since the only threads being allowed to exist are those discussing irrelevant rubbish. I believe the best censorship comes from the members. If people dont want to know anything about the beta, then other members will make it clear to those who do post that they are no welcome. It shouldnt be the job of the so called moderators.

Let US decide what we want to discuss, and leave your own ego's out of it so called moderators.
 
Woah... take it easy there. We revolve around the moderators. The decent part of us don't want spam, scam, and crap all over our beloved forums. Also, we can talk about the beta (kinda), only not linking pictures, revealing spoilers or game mechanics not intentially released by Valve.
 
yer i agree, these forums are gettin borin :/ we should be able to talk about the beta etc just not spoilers and links and all that. this will prob get deleted anyway :/
 
I think the mods think that if the beta is discussed freely here, Gabe will stop posting. :p
 
lol probably cheap. anyway he's just a guy like me or u. its disturbing when he posts and all the replys he gets is "I LOVE U GABE!!!! XX" that would piss me off :/
 
There is freedom of speech, but this is most likely a privately run site, and what ever rules the operators deem fit for their forums is the rules you should adhere to. They aren't demanding you shut up forever and cut out your tongue. Just don't discuss beta here. Don't discuss warez. If such topics are your fancy, there are plenty of unmoderated forums to discuss those in. It's not hard, it's not censorship, it is called politeness towards your host.
 
thats true m8, its a tricky subject coz ppl start postin links and pics. but the situation has died a death if u ask me.
 
Guys, this is flame bait. I've seen NadNailer's name on other forums shortly before its banned for similar baiting. It's the usual thing complaining about censorship. You'd think by now the kid would just setup his own forum with no censorship.. though you can bet your ass he'd act like god on it throwing his weight around and yup you guessed it censoring anything he doesn't agree with.
 
I'm sure there's a lot of truth in CheapAssStrat's comment. I guess there is also the legal angle to consider.

To be fair, there's precious little to say at the moment (certainly about the leak), so it's natural that the forum is going to drift off-topic somewhat until Valve decides to start talking again.

I don't think the mods are explicitly 'censoring' anyone - but they are trying to stop the same old points cropping up over and over again. If you've been here more than a couple of months, you've probably seen everything.

This is a slightly tongue-in-cheek suggestion, but maybe you should only be allowed to be a moderator if you've been here less than 3 or 4 months (and you only get moderator for a similar period) - because after that you're too bitter to continue? :)

The mods are *very* visible in this forum, but that's probably preferable to those forums where an invisible hand silently closes threads, deletes posts and changes people messages...
 
Don't discuss warez :/ what else is There to discuss :/ until Valve decides to start talking again:;( ;( ;(
 
You guys seem to forget that its not a right to even be here, its a privelage. These forums, this site, are all maintained with hard-earned money. It's ridiculous that you are complaining.
 
So... create a forum only to discuss the leaked ! Why not ?

If you want it i can create one.
 
Originally posted by Dhoco X
So... create a forum only to discuss the leaked ! Why not ?

If you want it i can create one.
Click to expand...

go right ahead.
 
Originally posted by Dhoco X
So... create a forum only to discuss the leaked ! Why not ?

If you want it i can create one.
Click to expand...

If it takes all the warezkiddies and bitching users and those insisting on talking about stolen files and leaves this place with intelligent discussions and mature users instead of flame bait threads like this then please make one and let the children fight all they want there
 
I think what the mods need to understand, is that Gabe will not give them an early copy of half-life 2 for censoring everything that has the words "leaked" and "beta".

But oh well. Nazis will be nazis.

Oh and Dhoco X, could you make a forum where you can discuss the beta? I'd love to join a forum where I don't have 12 year olds telling me what I can and can't talk about.
 
i havent posted for a while now coz there hasnt been anything interesting to comment on :(
 
i know how u feel fez. its not hl2.net's fault tho coz valve won't give us anythin to talk about, so we keep goin around and around with the same old discussions :(
 
Since when does freedom of speech give you the right to talk about stolen shit which isn't supposed to be in your possesion in the first place?

It isn't some kind of universal right that allows you to talk about anything you want.
 
Originally posted by Zeus
But oh well. Nazis will be nazis.
Click to expand...

This is just the sort of comment that annoys me. You do realise, that if they were Nazis, you wouldn't be able to complain about the lack of freedom of speech? They'd ban you for even suggesting it. I know the beta and source leak were big events, but really, if the rules are not to speak about it, then don't speak about it :/
 
for crying out loud, you people complaining that you don't have anything to talk about. Do you not have lives?? Is everything you do revolving around HL2 so much that you have absolutely nothing else to talk about other than illegal things? Thats pretty sad you know.

Go, go create your little stolen files forum, I give you a week max before you all give up and come crawling back. I'll even put money on it
 
You can't discuss the beta in the sense that you can't give information about the files themselves,storyline spoilers, illegal info, where to get it, etc-- things that are illegal.

And I haven't seen censorship of release date speculation, I've only seen threads closed when there was one exactly the same farther down the thread list.

I think the mods are doing a good job.
 
Originally posted by PvtRyan
Since when does freedom of speech give you the right to talk about stolen shit which isn't supposed to be in your possesion in the first place?

It isn't some kind of universal right that allows you to talk about anything you want.
Click to expand...
That's exactly what freedom of speech is - the right to talk about anything you want. It's just that forums shouldn't support freedom of speech.
 
Originally posted by koopa
That's exactly what freedom of speech is - the right to talk about anything you want. It's just that forums shouldn't support freedom of speech.
Click to expand...

Oh ho, it is definately NOT that. Freedom of speech isn't the right to talk about ANYTHING you want. The little keyword the guy said was ILLEGAL things. Little thing called conspiracy, if you talk about planning to download the ebta (although I doubt they'd enforce it in real life, but the mods would forum wise)
 
No News on HL2? But a Beta to talk about all the time?



These forums are loosing their touch....

Id be all in for a beta chat
 
Originally posted by RakuraiTenjin
Oh ho, it is definately NOT that. Freedom of speech isn't the right to talk about ANYTHING you want. The little keyword the guy said was ILLEGAL things. Little thing called conspiracy, if you talk about planning to download the ebta (although I doubt they'd enforce it in real life, but the mods would forum wise)
Click to expand...
Freedom of speech IS the right to talk about anything you want (if it isn't ... then it's not freedom in any real sense). But this is just an abstract notion - nobody really advocates applying that idea to a forum - and if they do, they probably haven't thought it through enough.

Personally, I think the mods have got it about right (although some of them are better than others).
 
Originally posted by Joeyslucky22
Id be all in for a beta chat
Click to expand...
That'd be a bit like opening all your christmas presents a few weeks early. It's all really disappointing when the big day comes around. Waiting for the real HL2 is the best bit (honest).
 
hmm well lets all do what you freedom of speech kids say then, lets have no censorship or moderation here. Maybe we should all discuss nadnailer's preference to hang around primary school children, or maybe how Zeus got caught with his pet cat and some butter one day.. Hmm no we can't do that, They wouldn't like it, maybe its not even true, but wuoldn't they immediately want the individuals involved banned by a moderator for saying it, oh but wait, doing it their way would allow us to say to the moderators that we'd decided to consider it as civilised discussion and freedom of speech in the group, thus it couldn't be deleted (under their rules might I add) and everyone could continue on saying what they liked about their sexual preferences and making complete fools of them, they'd bitch in response and oh look, nobody is asking any on topic questions then, their all just talking about what these two like to do for kicks. But to you it wouldn't be civilized and you'd no doubt have a major problem with it, cept you'd be powerless to do anything about it... so you see, if you let a forum run the way you suggest, it'll become a porn, warez and stolen code central within days have no rules and basically be a terrible place to be.

As others have said, being here is a priviledge not a right. It's privately owned and if they want to make rules they make rules. If they don't want you to post, you wont post. If they don't like what I just wrote they'll delete it. We're using a service we don't even pay for. So I think its only fair people behave

If you don't like the mods deleting your posts and banning you for things you've said, don't say those things. If you don't like how the moderators moderate posts (hence why their called moderators, but you probably didn't realise that) then you always have the option to go somewhere else don't you?


DISCLAIMER:

The above example is an extreme one, it is also fiction - I've no idea what those guys sexual preference is, nor do I care. Anyone who's seen forums or groups running how they suggest know full well what will happen. I for one will not continue to post here if it ends up like that. It's fine how it is right now.

And whaddayaknow. I said NadNailer was flame baiting. Look he's not bothered to reply to the messages in his own thread, and look what he's got us all doing. Now do you believe me? lol
 
Originally posted by koopa
That's exactly what freedom of speech is - the right to talk about anything you want. It's just that forums shouldn't support freedom of speech.
Click to expand...

It isn't above the law. You have rules to follow, if you didn't have to, we can just remove all mods because every dumbass thing someone says falls under the label 'freedom of speech'. All flamewars would be perfectly legal and acceptable.

The mods aren't censoring everything, just the things that discuss the content of the beta, they don't try to cover up the existence of it.
Discussing the content of the beta is illegal, therefor it should be banned from the forum, freedom of speech doesn't give you the right to talk about the content regardless of the rules of the forum or the law.

Basically, you can talk about the existence of the beta, the consequences of the leak, the hackers but NOT! the content of it. This isn't censoring, just the law.

So follow the rules, or piss off to your own private forum and discuss the beta with the other warezmonkeys.
 
oh my god people!

Talking about the leak and warez is illigal, you dont want the forum to close down do you?

Same thing with the IRC channel... Now we got IRC cops everywhere.

We want to stay legal, if you dont like it then go to your warez forum. Im sure you'll like it there.

Okay... i gonna wait until someone like D33 answers to this thread, he would make a better post than me.
 
Originally posted by PvtRyan
Click to expand...
It isn't above the law. You have rules to follow, if you didn't have to, we can just remove all mods because every dumbass thing someone says falls under the label 'freedom of speech'. All flamewars would be perfectly legal and acceptable.
Yes. That's why I said I was against freedom of speech on the forums.

freedom of speech doesn't give you the right to talk about the content regardless of the rules of the forum or the law.
Yes it does. It's just that the forums don't (quite rightly) support freedom of speech.

Basically, you can talk about the existence of the beta, the consequences of the leak, the hackers but NOT! the content of it. This isn't censoring, just the law.
It is censoring. Before you start foaming at the mouth again, I agree that the censorship is the right thing to do - but it's unquestionably censorship.

So follow the rules, or piss off to your own private forum and discuss the beta with the other warezmonkeys.
Not sure if that was aimed at me or not (since it was my post you responsed to) - but if it was, you're way off target. I don't want to hear about the beta.
 
I don't se it as an ego trip for the mods, or a limitation of our rights, to keep the spoiling of the game to a minimum by not allowing the "beta" discussions. As a matter of fact thats why I am here to begin with, because this forum isnt spoiling the game b4 it comes out. I am a member of the sierra HL2 forum , and there I had to petition the sysop to make the "beta" discussion taboo. At least in this forum , it has already been taken care of.

Good Job Moderators. Keep it up! :)
 
*SIGH*

Sometimes I can get torn over this issue, being a freedom loving patriot. But this isn't the streets of America, it's a privately owned forum, one that's also European. And even if it was an American run forum, posts can still be censored. Why? Because it's privately owned. If someone steps into your house, they have to follow your rules, or leave. On your property, "it's your way, or the highway."
There's no such thing as Freedom of Speech in someone elses home, garage, or even car. And thanks to a lot of liberal legislation, Freedom of Speech can be twisted, even when it's the streets of America. I understand your reasoning, and I can agree with you, to a point. But this is Hl2.net's forum, and it's their rules. Maybe once I get my site up, if that ever happens, you guys can enjoy it.

-Ghost.
 
Originally posted by koopa

Not sure if that was aimed at me or not (since it was my post you responsed to) - but if it was, you're way off target. I don't want to hear about the beta.
Click to expand...

No wasn't aimed at you, unless you felt spoken to :)

But your general opinion is that freedom of speech is infinite but restricted by censorship which is necessary sometimes.

Well I don't feel that way, it isn't above the law, and it's not like the beta is censored right off the forums, you just can't discuss the content of it, which is illegal. You can express your feelings about it, you can even say you like the beta being leaked, that isn't being censored, just the illegal things are.

If you weren't allowed to speak about the legal side of it, and your opinion would be oppressed, then yes the mods would be nazi's, but discussing illegal content has NOTHING to do with opinion. It's just illegal, no discussion about that.
 
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