Frist Backs Stem Cell Research

[No Limit]

http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=615&e=1&u=/nm/20050729/pl_nm/health_stemcells_dc

I lost all respect for this guy around the time of the Schiavo controversy, the way he lied and abused his power in government made me sick. However, I have to give credit where credit is due; he did the right thing in this case and thanks to his actions we will finally make progress and can offer many people hope when hope is all they have. Now the question is when will Bush and other ultra-rightwingers jump on board?

 

[RakuraiTenjin]

Noooo I posted this in general off topic and asked the mods to move it like 3 hours ago, yet they refuse to for some reason

 

[Icarusintel]

Noooo I posted this in general off topic and asked the mods to move it like 3 hours ago, yet they refuse to for some reason

seriously, this is your topic my friend
on topic - stem cells are good, frist is not a handsome individual

 

[RakuraiTenjin]

seriously, this is your topic my friend
on topic - stem cells are good, frist is not a handsome individual

Well he did the right forum so he gets it.

Question: Kyl and Frist appeared together at the news conference though, is Kyl in support?

 

[No Limit]

Question: Kyl and Frist appeared together at the news conference though, is Kyl in support?

I hope so. I know it seems like I hate the republicans but that is because their party has been hijacked by right wing extremists. This is the first time in a long while I got a small feeling of hope that they are finally moving back toward the center. Hell if Republicans actually followed what they believe I would agree with them on a lot more issues. But anyway, I'm going off topic. The Republican house was able to pass this bill easily and it will pass in the senate thanks to this; the real question is will we be able to get the 2/3 votes in both houses to overturn Bush's veto which he promised he will do. It is up to every republican on this board to call their senator's office and tell them you need them to support this bill.

 

[seinfeldrules]

but that is because their party has been hijacked by right wing extremists. This is the first time in a long while I got a small feeling of hope that they are finally moving back toward the center.

How about Dems being led by moderates like Howard Dean?

 

[MjM]

Ouch for Bush?

What has Dean done?

 

[DreamThrall]

What has Dean done?

He's a bit of a loon, is all.

How about Dems being led by moderates like Howard Dean?

I don't know any Dems that *actually* want to be associated with him...

 

[DreamThrall]

double post, please remove...

 

[willyd]

he's yelled.... that's about all i know

hehe same, well that and he likes to talk a lot of shit on the air

 

[gh0st]

i'm glad to see some high up republicans are starting to support stem cell research. as long as it isnt harvested from aborted fetuses, im happy.

 

[willyd]

does anyone know why people like george bush dont support stem cell research, because arent the fetuses going to die anyway or whatever?

by the way i want the real reason not somehting like "cuz they r teh stoopid"

 

[DreamThrall]

According to Wikipedia, stem cells are extracted from the placenta and umbilical cord after birth (I'm assuming, from willing donors)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stem_cell#Sources_of_stem_cells

does anyone know why people like george bush dont support stem cell research, because arent the fetuses going to die anyway or whatever?

Honestly, I don't think he's bothered to try and understand what it *really* is, how is works, or what the benefits are. This is pure speculation of course, but I've got a feeling that he doesn't want to hear about it.

 

[No Limit]

How about Dems being led by moderates like Howard Dean?

Can you give me examples of what makes Dean so extreme? I can give you good examples of Bush being almost as far to the crazy right as you can get. He ended his vacation early to overturn the courts decisions in the terri schiavo case with help from Republicans in congress. Remember, even the supreme court refused to overturn it but Bush and the republicans did it anyway. Months later after her death it turned out she was blind; completely making Frist look like an ass as he said he did a medical diagnosis on her based off an internet video and claimed she could respond to visual stimuly.

Bush said he will veto any attempt to raise funding for stem cell research; most Americans and even members of his own party disagree with this position. I would love to hear an argument for why we can't do this; no Republican that doesn't want funding has been able to defend their position.

He will not fire Karl Rove after he promised he would fire anyone found to be involved in the leak; Rove was involved. But because of a far right partisan agenda Bush will not touch him.

I could go on forever but I need to get back to work. Now I would like examples of Dean's positions that make him a far left whacko; if you post his remarks about Republicans you will have to try harder, I want actual positions.

 

[gh0st]

Bush said he will veto any attempt to raise funding for stem cell research; most Americans and even members of his own party disagree with this position. I would love to hear an argument for why we can't do this; no Republican that doesn't want funding has been able to defend their position.

No. He will veto any attempt to raise funding for EMBRYONIC stem cells, harvested from aborted fetuses. The left likes to group all these types of stem cells (umbilical, etc) unto the overarching "stem cell" category, when in fact not all stem cell's are created equal. In addition, they say that ONLY these embryonic stem cells are viable to cure diseases when, in fact, NO research exists to prove that point.

The House then overwhelmingly passed a Republican-backed proposal that would use federal money to study stem cells taken from adults and umbilical cord blood, instead of using human embryos.
The vote was 431-1. One Republican voted against the bill, which was supported by Bush.

That is the gist of the whole argument. Here's an argument for you: I don't want to use embryonic stem cells because 1. the left is calling, nay demanding, that the government, not the pharmaceuticals, control the research and development of it which means that this shit becomes institutionalized. 2. It comes from aborted fetuses. I think I defended it well enough. You know how pompous you sound? "No Republican"? Have you met every republican?

does anyone know why people like george bush dont support stem cell research, because arent the fetuses going to die anyway or whatever?

by the way i want the real reason not somehting like "cuz they r teh stoopid"

Bush doesnt have an objection to stem cell research as long as it doesnt come from aborted fetuses (ie, embryonic stem cells). I suspect the majority of the nation is with him on that one.

 

[seinfeldrules]

Can you give me examples of what makes Dean so extreme?

You seriously consider Dean a moderate? Pull your head away from deomocraticunderground.com for a few minutes and join the rest of the nation.

 

[No Limit]

You seriously consider Dean a moderate? Pull your head away from deomocraticunderground.com for a few minutes and join the rest of the nation.

Democraticunderground has nothing to do with it. I asked you for examples, I am waiting. He is on the left, no shit. But I hardly think of him as an extremist like Bush or Frist. Unless you have some examples to counter the extreme ones I posted.

 

[No Limit]

No. He will veto any attempt to raise funding for EMBRYONIC stem cells, harvested from aborted fetuses. The left likes to group all these types of stem cells (umbilical, etc) unto the overarching "stem cell" category, when in fact not all stem cell's are created equal. In addition, they say that ONLY these embryonic stem cells are viable to cure diseases when, in fact, NO research exists to prove that point.

Lol, no shit, Bush virtually isn't allowing any research to take place. And the basic principle of stem cells falls in to the same basic category that the extreme religious right opposes. These cells are grown in a lab, not aborted just for the purpose of using the cells as you seem to be suggesting:

A blastocyst is a stage of development of an embryo when it is around five days old and made up of about 100 cells. A blastocyst at the stage at which embryonic stem cells would be extracted is still young enough to be able to divide into two embryos, making identical twins, or in rare cases, merge with another blastocyst, even one of the opposite sex[1], to create a chimera, an individual comprised of populations of cells with two different sets of DNA. From the biological point of view, these points mean the blastocyst is not yet an individual. Blastocysts are an early developmental stage far from possessing a nervous system (or any other organs), and thus biologically speaking do not have feelings.

This view raises other issues, as the blastocysts involved in the research are left over from in vitro fertility therapy, and when not used in additional therapy or in embryonic stem cell research are destroyed or frozen indefinitely by the thousands[21]. To some, this does not address the concern that using doomed blastocysts in embryonic stem cell research is viewed as instrumentalizing a developing human being.

In the U.S., many Christian groups (such as Catholics, Eastern Orthodox and Fundamentalists) as well as other unaffiliated and non-religious groups, believe that a human blastocyst is a human being, with the according human rights, and therefore oppose embryonic stem cell research because the start of each cell line involves the destruction of a blastocyst.

Others do not view a blastocyst as a human being, and may instead see opposition of stem cell research as unfounded due to the suffering that new medical technologies could prevent. Many Jews, Muslims, Humanists, Mormons, and Unitarian Universalists, as well as a significant number of mainstream Christians are supportive of embryonic stem cell research.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stem_cell

Bush doesnt have an objection to stem cell research as long as it doesnt come from aborted fetuses (ie, embryonic stem cells). I suspect the majority of the nation is with him on that one.

No they dont. Embryonic stem cells are the cells that scientists say have any hope to cure and most other countries fund these studies.

 

[seinfeldrules]

Unless you have some examples to counter the extreme ones I posted.

http://www.aim.org/video/dean_iowa.wmv

I still cant get over how ****ing crazy that dude is.

 

[No Limit]

http://www.aim.org/video/dean_iowa.wmv

I still cant get over how ****ing crazy that dude is.

You are kidding, right? I asked you for which of his policies are extremist, you post him making an ass of himself? If this is the best you guys got against him you might be in trouble. I didn't even have to watch the video to know what you were posting.

BTW: Still waiting for examples, I posted a number of them and can post more if you'd like.

 

[seinfeldrules]

You are kidding, right? I asked you for which of his policies are extremist, you post him making an ass of himself? If this is the best you guys got against him you might be in trouble. I didn't even have to watch the video to know what you were posting.

Actually, we won so I dont think we're the ones in trouble. His remarks will get your party in trouble time after time.

 

[qckbeam]

http://www.aim.org/video/dean_iowa.wmv

I still cant get over how ****ing crazy that dude is.

Oh no! An excited democrat! RUN!

Judging Dean and call him a "****ing crazy dude" based off that video is equivalent to calling Bush an arrogant asshole based solely upon this well-known video. Neither one of those conclusions makes sense.

 

[No Limit]

Actually, we won so I dont think we're the ones in trouble. His remarks will get your party in trouble time after time.

Still waiting for those examples, unless you want to retract what you said about him being extreme.

 

[seinfeldrules]

Still waiting for those examples, unless you want to retract what you said about him being extreme.

Not so much his policies as it is his tone during speeches and events (same as OReilly for you guys).

EX.

Dean charged that some in the Republican Party did not understand the lives of hard-working Americans because they “never made an honest living in their lives.” In a San Fransico speech the chairman characterized Republicans as "a pretty monolithic party. They all behave the same. They all look the same. It's pretty much a white Christian party."

Thats pretty extreme.

 

[No Limit]

Not so much his policies as it is his tone during speeches and events (same as OReilly for you guys).

EX.


Thats pretty extreme.

You can not say someone is extreme and then use their tone as an example. O'reilly isn't that extreme, hes just a lying asshole (I got plenty of examples but we don't need to get into that). If you don't have any examples of Dean's extreme policies you have to admit he isn't that extreme, he's just loud. I on the other hand gave you examples of how extreme Bush and Frist are.

 

[gh0st]

Lol, no shit, Bush virtually isn't allowing any research to take place. And the basic principle of stem cells falls in to the same basic category that the extreme religious right opposes. These cells are grown in a lab, not aborted just for the purpose of using the cells as you seem to be suggesting:

Bush "virtually" isnt allowing any research to take place? Learn to read

The House then overwhelmingly passed a Republican-backed proposal that would use federal money to study stem cells taken from adults and umbilical cord blood, instead of using human embryos.
The vote was 431-1. One Republican voted against the bill, which was supported by Bush.

The cells are indeed grown in a lab, but they first must be taken from a viable HUMAN donor, aka a FETUS WHICH HAS BEEN ABORTED

Thus, the controversy over donating human egg cells and blastocysts could potentially be resolved, though a blastocyst would still be required to start each cycle.

Yes! Liberals are now GOD and can create artificial human life! This is exactly why bush is opposed to you fetus gobbling monsters.

An advantage of adult stem cells is that, since they can be harvested from the patient, potential ethical issues and inmunogenic rejection are averted.

Ethics of which you have none.

No they dont. Embryonic stem cells are the cells that scientists say have any hope to cure and most other countries fund these studies.

You didnt even read the article that you posted from wikipedia. Your statement is completely bogus and incorrect. As are many of the things you try to pass off as facts, even when you have virtually no knowledge of the argument.

Adult stem cells have successfully treated over 100 medical conditions including blindness [23], Krabbe's disease [24], diabetes [25], Parkinson's disease [26], acute renal failure [27], and sickle cell anemia [28]. Opponents of embryonic stem cell research have thus argued that embryonic stem cell funding restrictions in the U.S. are not significantly impeding the overall advancement of stem cell research, and that even without the ethical concerns regarding embryonic stem cells, public health funds should focus on extending adult stem cell research successes.

 

[No Limit]

Bush "virtually" isnt allowing any research to take place? Learn to read

I need to clarify, he isn't allowing any research on embryonic stem cells.

The cells are indeed grown in a lab, but they first must be taken from a viable HUMAN donor, aka a FETUS WHICH HAS BEEN ABORTED

They only have to be taken once for a full line to be grown. These embryos are the same ones fertility clinics throw away on a daily basis.

Yes! Liberals are now GOD and can create artificial human life! This is exactly why bush is opposed to you fetus gobbling monsters.

Thank you for proving my point, only extreme religious nut cases disagree with this. I hate to break it to you, people that believe in YOUR God are not in the majority, not by a long shot. I believe in God, but my God, if possible, would rather save a life than destroy it by using embryos that would have been thrown away anyway.

Ethics of which you have none.

Yes, and you guys are full of ethics. After all, Bush is the guy that said feeding tubes or life support must be removed from dying patients if that person can't pay for it. But when you can turn that in to a political issue which will score you some points with the religious right then they are all for keeping that feeding tube in.

Adult stem cells have successfully treated over 100 medical conditions including blindness [23], Krabbe's disease [24], diabetes [25], Parkinson's disease [26], acute renal failure [27], and sickle cell anemia [28]. Opponents of embryonic stem cell research have thus argued that embryonic stem cell funding restrictions in the U.S. are not significantly impeding the overall advancement of stem cell research, and that even without the ethical concerns regarding embryonic stem cells, public health funds should focus on extending adult stem cell research successes.

Then think of all the cures embryonic stem cells could produce.

Now see, if you weren't so hateful in every post and you provided valid points like you did above we might all be able to participate in better discussions. Hell, thanks to you I got a lot more educated on this last night even if I still disagree with your position.

 

[No Limit]

Seinfeld, do you have examples of Dean being a far left wacko yet? If not I hope you admit he's a pretty moderate guy that leans to the left.

 

[gh0st]

I need to clarify, he isn't allowing any research on embryonic stem cells.

But you didnt let bush clarify regarding rove? To tell you the truth I dont care about embryonic stem cells at all, I'm all for research. This is just an alternative argument that a sizable number of americans believe in

They only have to be taken once for a full line to be grown. These embryos are the same ones fertility clinics throw away on a daily basis.

Thats true, but you have to understand the belief that doing that is equivilent to murdering one person. And it's a pretty popular belief.

Thank you for proving my point, only extreme religious nut cases disagree with this. I hate to break it to you, people that believe in YOUR God are not in the majority, not by a long shot. I believe in God, but my God, if possible, would rather save a life than destroy it by using embryos that would have been thrown away anyway.

No. 79.5% of Americans claim to be christian, so Christians ARE in the majority in the US. Non-religious and secular make only 13%.

Yes, and you guys are full of ethics. After all, Bush is the guy that said feeding tubes or life support must be removed from dying patients if that person can't pay for it. But when you can turn that in to a political issue which will score you some points with the religious right then they are all for keeping that feeding tube in.

All in the eye of the beholder I guess

Then think of all the cures embryonic stem cells could produce.

I'm not being sarcastic, but show me some research claiming adult stem cells are less likely to be able to cure diseases than embryonic stem cells.
[/QUOTE]

 

[seinfeldrules]

Seinfeld, do you have examples of Dean being a far left wacko yet? If not I hope you admit he's a pretty moderate guy that leans to the left.

His policies are a mixture of moderate and leftist, but again he portrays himself as an extremist. Many of his comments cannot be taken as anything but extreme.

 

[No Limit]

I'm not being sarcastic, but show me some research claiming adult stem cells are less likely to be able to cure diseases than embryonic stem cells.

To be perfectly hoenst I will need to look deeper. I heard this before so I posted without double checking. If I find it I will post it, if I don't consider this me admitting I was wrong. Like I said, thanks to you I spend a good hour researching this stuff last night and will spend more time on it this week. But again, embryonic stem cells need to be studied because we honestly don't know if they are better.

No. 79.5% of Americans claim to be christian, so Christians ARE in the majority in the US. Non-religious and secular make only 13%.

But you have to understand there isn't just one Christian faith. Everyone can claim they are christian, but I can't think of one person that actually follow the christian faith by the great book word for word; I dont think anyone would think that would be healthy. Sure, 79% might claim they are christian but I know about 50% support abortion and even more support embryonic stem cell research and others the other 80% that get divorced or have pre-marital sex.