Gabe Newell on the next generation

[Triggerhappy41]

while gabe might be right about the difficulty of coding with multi-core processors, it still has to happen.

18 months or two years ago, you could still buy at P4 3.0 GHz CPU. They havent been able to up the clock speed much higher than that. 3.8 is pretty much the top right now and it should be around 5 or even 6. We are hitting the limits of silicon and the only way to get more speed out of a processor is to not just up the frequency but add more cores.

Whether he likes it or not, multicore is the future, so maybe he should get to work on an engine.

 

[Cole]

Whether he likes it or not, multicore is the future, so maybe he should get to work on an engine.

You mean upgrading Source?

 

[Venmoch]

Guys, guys, aren't you being just a little premature with your predictions? Some of you say that we'll be stuck with "middleware" and mediocre games. What about Gears Of War, COD2, Unreal Championship2k7, Perfect Dark 0, Killzone 2, and a bunch of games that haven't even been discussed yet?

But hold on.

ALL of those games are sequals (except Gears Of War, but it looks to be taken directly out of Unreal)

What do these games bring to the table (So to speak).

Nothing, Killzone 2 is just Call Of Duty with funky graphics and a different setting. These Release titles that people seem to be getting fired up about are just the same thing we've been playing already. Where are the console "Spores" or "Deus Ex's"

Currently this generation is looking to be nothing more than the generation of the "rehashed sequal".

 

[Absinthe]

As excited as I am by the next-gen consoles, I have to agree. I'm not seeing anything that innovative. Just really good graphics.

 

[satch919]

We've been playing sequels all throughout gaming. A lot of them happen to be really awesome. DOOM 3, HL2, Battlefield 2, Max Payne 2, KOTOR2, Resident Evil 4, Halo 2, Splinter Cell: Chaos Theory, etc. Some of the best games are sequels. How many revolutionary games did we get right out of the gate when the latest generation hit? Not many. However, they started coming out within a year of their release. Give it time. The next gen won't be any different from the current gen or the one before that. The great games will be there.

Its kinda sad to see that you gamers have little to no faith in the next gen.

What do these games bring to the table (So to speak).

Nothing, Killzone 2 is just Call Of Duty with funky graphics and a different setting. These Release titles that people seem to be getting fired up about are just the same thing we've been playing already. Where are the console "Spores" or "Deus Ex's"

Have you actually played any of these games? Nope. Have all the features of these games been discussed? No. So how can you sit there and say that they don't bring anything to the table? For all we know, Killzone 2 could have an awesome new combat/squad system with awesome AI. Gears of War could completely blow everyone away with its seemingly infinte landscapes. Huxely seems to be making great progress in developing a MMOFPS. Imagine thousands of players battling it out in realtime on vast landscapes.

I play games because they're fun, not because they're particularly revolutionary. They don't have to be. A couple of my favorite games right now are Lumines for PSP and Battlefield 2. Each one has been done before in one way or another. However, that didn't stop me from buying the games. I was able to have different experiences with both.

 

[Venmoch]

Have you actually played any of these games? Nope. Have all the features of these games been discussed? No. So how can you sit there and say that they don't bring anything to the table? For all we know, Killzone 2 could have an awesome new combat/squad system with awesome AI. Gears of War could completely blow everyone away with its seemingly infinte landscapes. Huxely seems to be making great progress in developing a MMOFPS. Imagine thousands of players battling it out in realtime on vast landscapes.

I play games because they're fun, not because they're particularly revolutionary. They don't have to be. A couple of my favorite games right now are Lumines for PSP and Battlefield 2. Each one has been done before in one way or another. However, that didn't stop me from buying the games. I was able to have different experiences with both.

True, but where are the Grim Fandango's? The Cannon Fodder's? The Abuse's Hell, wheres Sam and Max?

Where are all the games that aren't people with guns shooting other people? Where are the games with soul. The gamess that make you smile because theres just something magical about them and the way they're built. Wheres the inspiration behind the games now? I'm getting a little annoyed because of the generic Sci-Fi FPS that seems to be doing the runs these days. Don't get me wrong, I love shooting bug eyed monsters as much as the next person but when almost every game has the same template (And all of those you mentioned do) I want games that go against the usual status quo. I'd like to see gaming return to as it was a good few years ago where games makers didn't mind experimenting. They made games that were different and it wasn't a world where almost all games were FPS's or RTS's

The next gen doesn't appear to help this situation at all. It looks like we'll be playing the same thing over and over again but with new "Uber bits"™

This is not what I want. I want innovation. I want people to be able to say "Lets try something else"

 

[Lt. Drebin]

True, but where are the Grim Fandango's? The Cannon Fodder's? The Abuse's Hell, wheres Sam and Max?

Where are all the games that aren't people with guns shooting other people? Where are the games with soul. The gamess that make you smile because theres just something magical about them and the way they're built. Wheres the inspiration behind the games now? I'm getting a little annoyed because of the generic Sci-Fi FPS that seems to be doing the runs these days. Don't get me wrong, I love shooting bug eyed monsters as much as the next person but when almost every game has the same template (And all of those you mentioned do) I want games that go against the usual status quo. I'd like to see gaming return to as it was a good few years ago where games makers didn't mind experimenting. They made games that were different and it wasn't a world where almost all games were FPS's or RTS's

The next gen doesn't appear to help this situation at all. It looks like we'll be playing the same thing over and over again but with new "Uber bits"™

This is not what I want. I want innovation. I want people to be able to say "Lets try something else"

Join the club, chief. :cheers:

This is exactly why I own the DS and returned my PSP in less than a month.

This is why I'll buy a Revolution, guaranteed, and will mull over an XBox360.

 

[Absinthe]

This is why I'll buy a Revolution, guaranteed, and will mull over an XBox360.

Why? I mean, there's nothing thus far to suggest that the Revolution will live up to its name.

 

[Lt. Drebin]

Why? I mean, there's nothing thus far to suggest that the Revolution will live up to its name.

True, but we already know what's on the table from Sony and MS and it isn't as appealing to me as what Nintendo is promising. The only reason that I'll consider a XB 360 is because XBox Live is outstanding. As far as most everything else, it's all promises....but the promises are different...they're not promising a technical powerhouse....they're the only company prmoising to deliver a unique and inspiring gameplay. That's all I need to hear. MS and Sony aren't telling me that...all I hear from them is "most-powerful" or "xx times more powerful". Thanks, but no thanks. Been there, done that.

I'll tell you that the Nintendo back-catalogue online guarantees a success in my book.....add Sega to the mix as they want to be able to offer their old stuff....that's pure gold, baby.

 

[satch919]

True, but where are the Grim Fandango's? The Cannon Fodder's? The Abuse's Hell, wheres Sam and Max?

Where are all the games that aren't people with guns shooting other people? Where are the games with soul. The gamess that make you smile because theres just something magical about them and the way they're built. Wheres the inspiration behind the games now? I'm getting a little annoyed because of the generic Sci-Fi FPS that seems to be doing the runs these days. Don't get me wrong, I love shooting bug eyed monsters as much as the next person but when almost every game has the same template (And all of those you mentioned do) I want games that go against the usual status quo. I'd like to see gaming return to as it was a good few years ago where games makers didn't mind experimenting. They made games that were different and it wasn't a world where almost all games were FPS's or RTS's

The next gen doesn't appear to help this situation at all. It looks like we'll be playing the same thing over and over again but with new "Uber bits"™

This is not what I want. I want innovation. I want people to be able to say "Lets try something else"

The reason why I listed those shoot em' up games is because thats what I enjoy playing. Its just what I'm personally looking forward to. There are other games that look pretty interesting. They include Kameo, Elder Scrolls IV, Ninety-Nine Nights, a new Metal Gear Solid, RE5, Alan Wake, Too Human, etc. Those are only the confirmed games. Can you imagine what Nintendo is cooking up right now? A new Mario, Pikmin, Super Smash Bros. and probably a ton of other new IPs.

We will see some innovation this generation, just like we have with every generation before it.

 

[Venmoch]

We will see some innovation this generation, just like we have with every generation before it.

Yes, we may. But it'll be the wrong innovation. I predict we won't see anything like Grim Fandango on the next gen. Even though it would be perfectly suited. Besides looking at the XB360's release list I still can't help but feel like I'll have played it all before.

I mean christ, even something like Darwinia would be welcome.

 

[Triggerhappy41]

I'll tell you that the Nintendo back-catalogue online guarantees a success in my book.....add Sega to the mix as they want to be able to offer their old stuff....that's pure gold, baby.

agreed, but weren't you just agreeing that videogames today need more innovation? Wheres the innovation in playing old as hell games on a new as hell console?


Face it, most game devs dont try to innovate. They are perfectly safe making their FPSes.

Innovation doesn't necessarily mean a game will be good though. Black and white was pure crap to me. Pretty innovative, but the game needs to make more sense and have less people whispering death in my ear before i'll play it any longer.

Look at blizzard, they practically INVENTED the RTS genre, starcraft, warcraft 3 are two of the best RTSes on the market and SC is the best selling PC game ever. period. Not to mention WoW and D2 are some ridiculously addicting games. It doesnt take a bunch of innovation to make a good game, it takes dedication. Blizzard has made sequels almost exclusively for the past 5 years, and they know what they are doing.

 

[Cole]

Blizzard has made sequels almost exclusively for the past 5 years, and they know what they are doing.

When you see WoW with 3.5 million subscribers, and battle.net averaging over 200,000 and Starcraft still pulling over 100,000 at times.. I would expect them to know what they are doing...besides that Sc2 isn't annouced yet...so many starcraft gamers will orgasm when it is..

 

[Styloid]

True, but where are the Grim Fandango's? The Cannon Fodder's? The Abuse's Hell, wheres Sam and Max?

Where are all the games that aren't people with guns shooting other people? Where are the games with soul. The gamess that make you smile because theres just something magical about them and the way they're built. Wheres the inspiration behind the games now? I'm getting a little annoyed because of the generic Sci-Fi FPS that seems to be doing the runs these days.

Agreed. This is what I think is another part of the problem:

Producers and Devs want to make money. They want to be efficient in terms of how much resources they put in and how much money they get back-- look at sports games: they come out once a year and make lots of money with relatively little work. Adventure games like Grim Fandango, however, can be considered to be very inefficient. It would take lots of thinking and design to come up with just one puzzle, fitting it in the game, creating the content, keeping the game flow moving, and making sure gamers can figure it out intuitively. The whole game, in the end however, can be finished in a relatively short amount of time.

Here, gamers in general do not appreciate the differences in the design; they take five min. on the puzzle, they take five min. to kill ten randomly placed badguys. The puzzle offers no replay value, random badguys do. Why not skip the design parts and just throw some random badguys around with some guns when the gamer is happy with either one?-- not meaning to pick on Hellgate/Diablo or anything.

 

[Sparta]

Adventure games like Grim Fandango, however, can be considered to be very inefficient. It would take lots of thinking and design to come up with just one puzzle, fitting it in the game, creating the content, keeping the game flow moving, and making sure gamers can figure it out intuitively. The whole game, in the end however, can be finished in a relatively short amount of time.

Not really. 30 hours is pretty long for any game

 

[Dr. Freeman]

PC's are multicored too just not quite yet. Does everyone here think that this just relates to consoles? Half Life 3 will have to overcome the hurdle of multicore processors if it wants to remain competitive as the source engine is now!

i don't claim to know this stuff about consoles and computers inticritly, but isn't it harder to make multicored games for consoles than for computers?
or perhaps its vice versa since a console's specs stay the same once its released and don't change.

anyway i don't know why...but i think computers have the upperhand when it comes to coding.

 

[Lethal8472]

By the time Half-Life 3 comes out, I think most of the coding problems relating to dual-core technology will have been worked out. Or we may be using a different type of technology, who knows. I'm pretty sure that PPU's will be pretty mainstream by the time it comes out, so it will have to incorperate them also.

 

[Lt. Drebin]

agreed, but weren't you just agreeing that videogames today need more innovation? Wheres the innovation in playing old as hell games on a new as hell console?

Yes...but I love those games....games that I find myself playing more and more lately. Those were the innovators that set the stage for what we have today.

I hope you're not suggesting that I can't love old games and demand innovation in the future at the same time??