Game of Thrones thread with lots of books spoilers inside spoiler tags

[JUL3]

and i also think eddard's character has something to do with this "starks are the good guys" business.

Ned was a decent guy, indeed, but ASOIAF is not about the good and bad guys, some characters like jon snow for example, sometimes he is a nice guy, others he is an unsupportable mad ****, and daenerys, who tries to be good and just, but ends up doing some bad things on the way.

Spoiler

I've always found Jon Snow to be calm and measured. Dany annoys me to no end though. WE MUST FREE THE SLAVES (and inflict a suffering upon them 10x as worse as slavery; starvation and the pale mare)

 

[Stylo]

and i also think eddard's character has something to do with this "starks are the good guys" business.

Pretty much, this, although not just Eddard in my view. There aren't really any of the Starks that I've shown any real disliking to, except, on occasion, Cat.
They do generally seem to show more nobility and compassion in most situations.

 

[ríomhaire]

Pretty much, this, although not just Eddard in my view. There aren't really any of the Starks that I've shown any real disliking to, except, on occasion, Cat.
They do generally seem to show more nobility and compassion in most situations.

Arya ****ing doesn't. Book Arya at least is pretty much a psycho. She murders a guard to get out of Harrenhal and doesn't give a single shit while whispering a phrase she doesn't know the meaning of but thinks sounds cool in his ear.

 

[DevonWC]

Arya ****ing doesn't. Book Arya at least is pretty much a psycho. She murders a guard to get out of Harrenhal and doesn't give a single shit while whispering a phrase she doesn't know the meaning of but thinks sounds cool in his ear.

Spoiler

And that's why i like her, also she got the bravest attitude amongst the starks imho, fled from westeros to learn how to "solve" her problems, while she could go to the wall, riverrun or to her auntie in the vale.

 

[Sheepo]

Arya ****ing doesn't. Book Arya at least is pretty much a psycho. She murders a guard to get out of Harrenhal and doesn't give a single shit while whispering a phrase she doesn't know the meaning of but thinks sounds cool in his ear.

Yeah, well that's pretty deep into the books after she was introduced as a spunky, sympathetic girl and we watch her experience terrible horrors and suffering which make the resulting transformation pretty reasonable. Thus she never really stops being one of "the good guys" to us.

some characters like jon snow for example, sometimes he is a nice guy, others he is an unsupportable mad ****

I can't say I know what you mean at all.

Spoiler

Sometimes he can be a bit too ambitious with his goals and the like I guess, but he never comes across as mad or unstable at all. Perhaps it's just been too long since I read.

If they do House Martell right, then, damn, I'll be psyched. Unbowed, Unbent, Unbroken. ****. Yes.

Yep yep yep. I eagerly await a great deal more Greyjoy and the inclusion of Dorne.

 

[DevonWC]

plenty of text here

Maybe that jon snow thing worked on a more personal level here. but anyways i still like the character very much, it's just that i found him to be a dick sometimes.

 

[Stylo]

Yeah, well that's pretty deep into the books after she was introduced as a spunky, sympathetic girl and we watch her experience terrible horrors and suffering which make the resulting transformation pretty reasonable. Thus she never really stops being one of "the good guys" to us.

I have tonnes of anticipation about Arya becoming more bad-ass. Haven't read the books but in the TV Series, at least, you can tell that she's undergoing a transformation. Personally, I want to see her run a sword through all of the people whose names she reminds herself of at night.

 

[Krynn72]

So here's a thing that made me laugh. Don't forget to unmute.
https://vine.co/v/b3XZMHmxzxh

 

[JUL3]

Yep yep yep. I eagerly await a great deal more Greyjoy and the inclusion of Dorne.

Asha (or 'Yara', as she's called in the show) is in the preview for the next episode.

Spoiler

I think we may see Balon's death. Or maybe the beginnings of the Kings Moot.

I really hope the don't f*ck up the Red Viper. Seeing how they dealt with Daario, it seems the showrunners are pretty keen on minimalising the more exotic characters.

 

[FoB_Ed]

I haven't read the books. Last episode. Horrific.

Spoiler

Someone please tell me the Stark family get retribution at some point. They're like, the most awesome house and all they seem to get is the raw end of the deal. :/

"if you think this has a happy ending, you haven't been paying attention"

 

[ríomhaire]

If you think this has a happy ending, you haven't been flaying attention.

 

[Stylo]

The ending is not the concern. I JUST WANT THE BAD PEOPLE REVENGE-STABBED AS SOON AS POSSIBLE BEFORE EVERYONE (presumably) DIES.

 

[ríomhaire]

Gurm reveals some major spoilers about the upcoming series/books:

http://teamcoco.com/video/george-rr-martin-game-of-thrones-spoilers

 

[Krynn72]

Hrm, not exactly an exciting finale, but it was really well done... for the most part. I thought certain things were going to happen in this episode, but they didn't, and some things didn't play out as I expected/wanted. Stannis/Davos in particular. I feel like Stannis is being made out like he's a sinister person instead of an honor-driven and stone-cold rational one. And this show has a god damn boner going for Dany. Give it a rest, jesus.

 

[Tagaziel]

And this show has a god damn boner going for Dany. Give it a rest, jesus.

She is the sole remaining legitimate heir to the Iron Throne. And she has dragons.

The number

Spoiler

bounces up to two in DoD, but she's still the most powerful person with a legit claim.

 

[ríomhaire]

She's not the final legitimate heir. The Baratheon boys are grandchildren of Rhaelle Targaryen and even saying that Robert was not a legitimate king then Stannis is Dany's legal heir.

 

[Viperidae]

She is the sole remaining legitimate heir to the Iron Throne. And she has dragons

You know nothing, Jon Snow.

 

[Sheepo]

I feel like Stannis is being made out like he's a sinister person instead of an honor-driven and stone-cold rational one.

This. Bothers me consistently more than anything else in the show. He's been humanized slightly more in this season, but he still comes off more as an ambitious bad guy struggling with a conscious more than a man defined by a sense of duty, law, and honor.

 

[Tagaziel]

She's not the final legitimate heir. The Baratheon boys are grandchildren of Rhaelle Targaryen and even saying that Robert was not a legitimate king then Stannis is Dany's legal heir.

Yes, but they are still of another dynasty, not the Targaryens. Regardless, inheritance isn't equal for everyone concerned, those closest to the royal bloodline (Targaryens, before anyone interjects on behalf of the rebel scum) are first in line. That means the surviving Targaryens. Of course, if you only rate people by the military might at their disposal, the point becomes moot.

I'm not sure how Jon Snow factors into all of this. Martin remarked to Theon's actor, Alfie Allen, that there's a weird Skywalker thing going on here.

 

[Sheepo]

Little late here but am I the only who doesn't really see any way to reconcile the path Asha is taking with what she does in the books without some pretty big changes?

 

[JUL3]

Little late here but am I the only who doesn't really see any way to reconcile the path Asha is taking with what she does in the books without some pretty big changes?

Nope. It's f*cked up.

Spoiler

I think they're cutting the Kings Moot entirely to introduce this 'Asha savin' her lil bro' story arc. They'll probably replace it with Euron being introduced returning to the Iron Islands in secret, and then explicitly showing him murder Balon (which is basically implied in the books) and claiming himself as King. Then the story should pan out as is anyway, with Stannis intercepting her at some stage in late season 4 or early season 5.

 

[ríomhaire]

Little late here but am I the only who doesn't really see any way to reconcile the path Asha is taking with what she does in the books without some pretty big changes?

They've changed a lot and those changes are inevitably going to lead to more down the road. Almost every storyline is different at this point.

Books spoilers OMG! Like total spoilerage show watchers don't like read this like

Spoiler

Brienne and Jaime have arrived in King's Landing very early and it'll be interesting to see how they deal with Sansa actually being there. It also looks as if Jaime is actually going to be around for Tyrion's trial which is interesting. Gendry is also possibly on his way to King's Landing from Dragonstone and if he meets up with other characters there's a chance Brienne could learn from him that Arya is alive in the Riverlands, which would give her a reason to depart while Sansa is still in King's Landing. Also the massive difference in Shae's character is worth noting as it will probably have an affect on upcoming events too.

Tormund's member is at the wrong side of the Wall which makes me worried that he's not going to survive the next season. I also wouldn't be surprised if Janos Slynt has been cut which will mean some changes to the Wall storyline too. They may bring him back though. Stannis' plans have also been revealed early (also his entire character has been ruined) so there'll probably be some filler involving him preparing to go. What they'll do with Davos remains to be seen too.

Bran and Rickon split up much later than in the books and there was no mute boy as witness to tell Manderly where they went (one of the more contrived plot points in the books). Their destination has also been changed. Theon and Ramsay also need something to do for the season ahead. Some speculate they'll go hunting for the Stark boys and end up chasing Rickon and Osha away from Last Hearth and to Skagos with Asha/Yara chasing them and then somehow Manderly will find out. The storylines in the North are all a mess really especially when we don't even know what the endgame for Rickon is. Whatever it is Ramsay and Theon need to get called back to Winterfell for season five making pretty much everything that's going to happen in the North a waste of time.

 

[Sheepo]

Nope. It's f*cked up.

Spoiler

I think they're cutting the Kings Moot entirely

That's what I'm afraid of because it would be pretty ****ing silly for her to

Spoiler

turn back around immediately which is pretty much what she'd have to do. That would suck because A) I think the background on the Iron Islands situation it gives is pretty necessary given that it's gonna end up having so much going on and B) the Greyjoy stuff is awesome and the Kingsmoot in particular is something I'd love to see.

Spoiler

Brienne and Jaime have arrived in King's Landing very early and it'll be interesting to see how they deal with Sansa actually being there. It also looks as if Jaime is actually going to be around for Tyrion's trial which is interesting. Gendry is also possibly on his way to King's Landing from Dragonstone and if he meets up with other characters there's a chance Brienne could learn from him that Arya is alive in the Riverlands, which would give her a reason to depart while Sansa is still in King's Landing. Also the massive difference in Shae's character is worth noting as it will probably have an affect on upcoming events too.

Tormund's member is at the wrong side of the Wall which makes me worried that he's not going to survive the next season. I also wouldn't be surprised if Janos Slynt has been cut which will mean some changes to the Wall storyline too. They may bring him back though. Stannis' plans have also been revealed early (also his entire character has been ruined) so there'll probably be some filler involving him preparing to go. What they'll do with Davos remains to be seen too.

Bran and Rickon split up much later than in the books and there was no mute boy as witness to tell Manderly where they went (one of the more contrived plot points in the books). Their destination has also been changed. Theon and Ramsay also need something to do for the season ahead. Some speculate they'll go hunting for the Stark boys and end up chasing Rickon and Osha away from Last Hearth and to Skagos with Asha/Yara chasing them and then somehow Manderly will find out. The storylines in the North are all a mess really especially when we don't even know what the endgame for Rickon is. Whatever it is Ramsay and Theon need to get called back to Winterfell for season five making pretty much everything that's going to happen in the North a waste of time.

You bring up some good points, hadn't considered a lot of those changes, however:

Spoiler

Given that Brienne has no power to actually force her release, Sansa has no family to go to, and Tyrion is her husband, I would imagine that little issue will amount to them flat out refusing her or the Lannisters will do some stalling run around thing on her. Jamie being there doesn't really change much, he'll probably just avoid the situation until the last possible moment, which is what he does in the book anyway. I don't see Shae's difference as so much a difference as a better background on why she does what she does. She feels like Tyrion is distancing himself from her and the distance is definitely there and the bitterness of somewhat imagined rejection will lead her to resent and then betray him. Kind of contrived, but it could definitely work.

Wall stuff? Pffft. Jon's little struggle with Slynt ends up amounting to nothing. They'll save screentime by just cutting it out and having him assume command quickly (probably there'll be some bumps in the road). And yeah, Tormund's death is a bummer, but kind of an inessential character.

No real disagreements there. Not sure what you mean by changed destinations though. Umbers and the Crow? Sounds right to me.

 

[ríomhaire]

Stilly booky wooky spoilers

Spoiler

No real disagreements there. Not sure what you mean by changed destinations though. Umbers and the Crow? Sounds right to me.

Spoiler

In the books Rickon and Osha head for Skagos, in the show they're heading for Last Hearth.

 

[Sheepo]

Spoiler

Do they just happen to end up with the Umbers then? I was pretty sure the Umbers came into it.[spoilers]

 

[ríomhaire]

Spoiler

Do they just happen to end up with the Umbers then? I was pretty sure the Umbers came into it.

Spoiler

Spoiler

A Dance With Dragons:

Spoiler

Rickon literally hasn't been seen since he left Winterfell. Manderly discovered that he's heading to Skagos and has sent Davos to retrieve him.

 

[Eejit]

She is the sole remaining legitimate heir to the Iron Throne. And she has dragons.

Big [Book 1] spoiler -

Spoiler

Jon Targaryen, first of his name. Guaranteed.

 

[nofreeman]

Wish the made Tyrion with green and black eyes, would have made it for me.

 

[Krynn72]

 

[ríomhaire]

There's a porn parody being made. Surprised it took this long.

 

[Destructo-Bot]

It better have a dwarf in it. Dwarf porn is best porn.

 

[Mogi67]

all knows

 

[JUL3]

Valar Morghulis.

I don't know where we stand on spoilers in this thread anymore, but I propose to operate under tags for books/knowledge of upcoming episodes but no tags for aired episodes.

Released episode titles:

Two Swords (April 6)
The Lion and the Rose (April 13)
Breaker of Chains (April 20)
Oathkeeper (April 27)
First of His Name (May 4)
The Laws of Gods and Men (May 11)
Mockingbird (May 18)

Episode titles/season pacing speculation:

Spoiler

Lion and the Rose has to be the Purple Wedding. First of His Name sounds like Tommen's coronation. Mockingbird will be some kind of reveal about Littlefinger, not sure what exactly. Maybe his wedding to Lysa?

Random points:
-Pedro Pascal (The Red Viper) appears to be nothing like how I imagined him, but the showrunners reckon he's hot stuff so I'm looking forward to his introduction.
-Not sure if anyone else followed the saga a couple of weeks ago, but Martin pretty much admitted the show will overtake the books at this stage. In fact, he's given D&D a basic outline of the ending.

Spoiler

-Ramsay looks ****ing terrifying this season. It looks like they're depicting his previous escapades with Reek (hunting/raping women prisoners) in the present but with a female companion. I'm not entirely sure, but I think she's one of the girls who semi-raped Theon last season before his castration. Brutal shit.

Predictions? Thoughts? Complaints? Discuss!

 

[Krynn72]

-Not sure if anyone else followed the saga a couple of weeks ago, but Martin pretty much admitted the show will overtake the books at this stage. In fact, he's given D&D a basic outline of the ending.

Good, at least we'll pretty much be guaranteed an ending, I have no faith in GRRM finishing the series before he dies.

 

[JUL3]

Good, at least we'll pretty much be guaranteed an ending, I have no faith in GRRM finishing the series before he dies.

I never understood why people feel this way, he's only 65. I mean, he's fat, and he doesn't look terribly healthy, but I would still give him at least another 10-15 years, plenty enough time to finish the series. I really don't want to finish this saga with "A Dream of Spring: The final book in HBO's thrilling 'Game of Thrones' series. Written by D&D, in memory of GURM."

But I guess I haven't been waiting as long as some people either, so I've never really felt that screwed over by George.

 

[Krynn72]

I never understood why people feel this way, he's only 65. I mean, he's fat, and he doesn't look terribly healthy, but I would still give him at least another 10-15 years, plenty enough time to finish the series.

Not really, he's averaging 5 years per book, with at least two more planned (and remember, Dance and Feast were supposed to be one book). I'd say 10-15 years is pushing it.

 

[Lobster]

It's interesting. There are going to be long-time fans of the books who try to avoid the TV show once it dips into the unwritten story. Which will effectively reverse the spoiler threat. I imagine it will be far harder to avoid discovering spoilers from the show than it has been for the books, as there will be visual meme images everywhere.

There is bound to be one nutter who becomes a complete Luddite in an attempt to remain true to the novels!

 

[Krynn72]

If it does overtake it, I'll happily watch the show before the books. It'll be nice to watch the show without already knowing whats going to happen. Reading the books afterwards will be fine because there's always so much new, televised stuff.

 

[Eejit]

Arya didn't have her best quote from the books. Sigh.

I never understood why people feel this way, he's only 65. I mean, he's fat, and he doesn't look terribly healthy, but I would still give him at least another 10-15 years, plenty enough time to finish the series. I really don't want to finish this saga with "A Dream of Spring: The final book in HBO's thrilling 'Game of Thrones' series. Written by D&D, in memory of GURM."

But I guess I haven't been waiting as long as some people either, so I've never really felt that screwed over by George.

Yeah I've been reading the books for about 12 years or so now.

Oh and Robert Jordan died before finishing the Wheel of Time novels, and he took better care of himself than GRRM. Luckily he'd left copious notes for it to be completed.

 

[Sheepo]

So it's been a while since I finished all the books and I know the sequence starts to get a little confusing when it comes to 4 and 5, but does anyone else think things are happening a little too out of sequence? The fact that events from three different books are happening at once is a little overwhelming.

Also, given the most recent events in the Vale are as far as the books ever get for Sansa, the fact that there's been no time when the show has ever ignored her character, and the fact that it's a fresh and new plot as well as much needed development for her character, do you think it's likely that we're going to start seeing the first instance of the show preceding the books?