Gay Teens Hanged in Iran

[VictimOfScience]

but why is it anyone's concern as to what another country does? this is extremely dangerous precedent ...if france doesnt like the way the US handles it's affairs does that give them the right to invade the US?

this has never been about humanitarianism, this has never been about protecting the US ..this is about gaining footholds in strategic areas that will benefit the US's self interests nothing more nothing less ....I think far too many americans believe that the US is some sort of moral authority ... something like this

when it couldnt be further from the truth

Of course we are not anyone's moral authority, but one would have to admit that it is in the world's best interest if a radical Islamic fundamentalist government who is famous for hateful speech were kept out of the nuclear arms race, right? And even though the US went out on its own to establish that dangerous precedent, I don't think it will stand in the future because of its own questionable beginnings. But if the UN decides that a nation is a potential threat, then they will address it. That's why they're there after all. Its not up to one country and hopefully everyone (including the US) realizes this now.

 

[Sulkdodds]

wikipedia must be ****ing joking. "support for women's rights", better say, "support for whores' rights".

Why don't I see Cpt.Stern, bastion of liberal values, commenting on this?

Why does nobody seem to be neutral here? Why is there an agenda everywhere?
It's either 'Islam sucks, **** Iran, kill kill kill,' or 'Bullshit, America sucks, they want to destroy Iran, poor innocent Iran.'

 

[Kangy]

women who dressed up like whores were considered fashionable and "cool", marriage was called "not having the same meaning of love" in movies... .

Wow! You're actually brainwashed.

Because a woman wants to look nice in her mind, as well as hopefully in the minds of others, you'd brand her a "whore"? I think that entire outlook is incredibly ignorant, rude and insulting. I'm glad Islam in its current form probably doesn't have too long left before it starts to grow up and join in with the rest of society. Every other religion manages to do it, Christianity (for the most part) to Buddhism.

 

[Raziaar]

Why don't I see Cpt.Stern, bastion of liberal values, commenting on this?

Why does nobody seem to be neutral here? Why is there an agenda everywhere?
It's either 'Islam sucks, **** Iran, kill kill kill,' or 'Bullshit, America sucks, they want to destroy Iran, poor innocent Iran.'

I don't think 'Islam Sucks', **** Iran, kill kill kill. Or the latter either.

I think the Iranian government sucks, and the people who do all that violent bullshit.

But the country itself and the people have an interesting history and culture.

 

[ComradeBadger]

Why don't I see Cpt.Stern, bastion of liberal values, commenting on this?

Why does nobody seem to be neutral here? Why is there an agenda everywhere?
It's either 'Islam sucks, **** Iran, kill kill kill,' or 'Bullshit, America sucks, they want to destroy Iran, poor innocent Iran.'

Those members holding more neutral views happen to be (by and large) the British members, and people who don't post in this forum much.

:|

 

[jerkasaur]

Now im getting worried... So let me see if i get it: these women dressed up fashionable and they are then "whores" in your eyes?.. and dont deserve rights???

What right have you to say what they can or cannot wear? Oh yeah, I forgot, women have pretty much **** all rights in Iran.

****ing Nazi.

i meant those who had no real value and just dressed up to be getting to somewhere.

let's put it like this: you're working in a company, for two years, and just as you're waiting for your promotion, you understand that a n00b women has taken that place, now you know that's you're better than her, but when you ask the manager why he's chosen her, he replies: because of "natural" abilities. now how would that feel?

i don't care about what people wear, actually i think there shouldn't be a law for wearing scarfs in iran, as much as there shouldn't be a law in france to not let them wear scarfs. those who believe in it wear it and those who don't, well i don't care.
i should have cleared myself there really.

But the country itself and the people have an interesting history and culture.

why thank you Raziaar.

 

[Sulkdodds]

So you don't care what people wear...but you call it 'whore's rights?' I'm sorry, and I'm not trying to be particularly antagonistic here, but that doesn't make any sense.

I'm going to spell out my current opinion: although undoubtedly the Western media is conducting a huge-scale smear attack on Iran, that doesn't change the fact that as far as I can see it's a really nasty country. Quite apart from the leader dude saying horrible and inflammatory things like 'Iradicate Israel' and 'The Holocaust is a myth', there are so many reports of injustice, sexism and religious fundamentalism that it's insane. It's something I feel this danish mess has kind of highlighted.

Now don't for a minute think that I'm singling out Iran here since I hate basically all countries. But Iran's what we're talking about.

Let's take www.iranfocus.com . Now clearly, this is a very anti-Iranian site. It's being very selective and reporting only on the bad stuff. But that doesn't mean to say the bad stuff doesn't happen.

All in all, Iran does not seem like the "land of real freedom" your location proudly proclaims. But maybe I'm getting the wrong impression. What's it really like there?

 

[Ome_Vince]

I agree with Sulkdodds here, although i must add the thing that i hate most about theocraties is their destruction of anything in their own countries history that doesnt fit the religious regime...
When Christianity took over Europe all of the ancient gods, culture etc was destroyed and replaced by new extremist Christian culture. When Islam took over the middle-east it was thourough to destroy all the culture that was before...
Theocracies and fundementalists do that kind of stuff to keep people narrow-minded.
Now thats in the past and we hardly have theocracies anymore, Iran kind-of sets the tone on religious intollerance and is amongst the last of theocracies around.
From the things i've read Iran is a very interesting country, with alot of history and i fear its future...

That being said, i'd like to emphesize im against any form of military action unless actual "nukes are being made" ( with 100% certainty not speculation..)
Reason is simply that the people get hit, not the guilty ones..
Its always the regular citizen that gets hit the hardest..
+ I am against any form of polarising the world. Although critisism i believe is only good, and you should be allowed to point fingers, it often drives people to generalisation..
All in all what everything needs is balance and Iran does not have balance.

The dark future i fear is that future generations wont be able to enjoy what we've had: trips/vacations to Egypt, Tunesia etc, because the world is polarized and both "sides" (call it whatever you want) hate each other-> cold war..
In that case it seems Osama's/Al Qeada's "plan" is working so far..

 

[jerkasaur]

What's it really like there?

the government we have now, may not be the best, but is SURE better than what it was before the revolution.
killing has always happened in every country. that's how they keep control on people, if they didn't, they would have no power.
the thing is, media coverage for what happens here is far more than what happens in other countries.
the US has the most prisoners in the world, but no one cares.
they have killed people the worst way possible, but no one seems to care.
our people love their country, as you could see from today, where millions of people, after 27 years, still believe in the revolution and country.

 

[kirovman]

the US has the most prisoners in the world, but no one cares.
they have killed people the worst way possible, but no one seems to care.

Actually a lot of protests in Europe, and indeed across the world, and in the USA itself are because of this, and US foreign policy.

It's not as if people ignore it, but it's pretty hard for your average person to do anything about it other than protest, or vote for the lesser of two evils in elections.

 

[Lemonking]

jerkasaur, jeez you a wee bit extreme,you are lucky mainly guys visits this forum.

 

[Llama]

Witness the propaganda montage effect in its early stages.
Notice how it is already permissable to call for the total destruction of a country without the normal protests that would usually accompany this kind of hate-filled outburst.
Substitute Iran in that quote with some other(more sympathetic) country, and the lack of reaction from some quarters is almost deafening.

Pardon? Sorry, I have a bad reaction to bullshit. Especially bullshit that assuses me of being jaded by propaganda, despite the fact I pay no attention to the majority of media.

Oh, and thanks for making a huge generalisation about me. Way to go.

K thnx bi

 

[VictimOfScience]

but it's pretty hard for your average person to do anything about it other than...vote for the lesser of two evils in elections.

QFMFT. The last few elections have presented pretty slim pickins in terms of viable candidates. We need to start small in order to change the people that decide who the candidates are. Then we will be making some progress, but its an uphill battle trying to get reform to trickle up instead of b*llsh*t policy from b*llsh*t politicians trickling us all down the drain.

 

[OvA]

<3 Ogrish
<3 Goatse
<3 Tub Girl
<3 Lemon Party
<3 Cyberpitz and Ikerous

 

[K e r b e r o s]

they let, yes, but they do not force.

No offense, but to say to 400 people, "you now have the freewill to stone, stab and hang the gay prisoners bodies in whichever way you please", and then for all 400 of these people to do it, makes it much worse in my mind then if they were forced.

Think about it. The moral choice existed to them not to participate in the execution and instead of turning the other cheek, they picked up a rock, unslew a knive, and began beating and stabbing these bodies until they're maimed beyond description.

If its their free-will that allows them to do these things without inhibition, I'am much more afraid and much more disgusted.

The people in these videos don't throw or knive quietly, they curse, scream and yell in Arabic at these dying people without a second thought or feeling of just what they've become.

the only time when someone has been stoned to death in iran, was back in the time muhammed (pbuh) lived.

Unfortunately, you'll speak your lies until an Admin gives me permission to post what I have. ;D

again i say, the punish, sometimes they kill, but to prevent the taboo to spread into the Society.

And were supposed to feel better because of it ... You make homosexuality sound like a virus you can catch. If thats they way it was meant to be told, its no wonder they burn the bodies afterward and hang them.

To be completely blunt, your defending of this way of killing would be no better if I defend the Abu-Gharib tortures, would it be not?

..it's just utter hypocrisy to say that Bush is appalled by acts of barbarity when his own admin conducts themselves much in the same way

How is Bush related to something that occured in 1953? Is it his citizenry, or his direct involvement?

Please elaborate.

bush or america or any other country has never invaded a country for the people, always for itself's sake.

Are you perhaps forgetting Adolf Hitler, or perhaps the Arab Legion of 1946?

Strange you would'nt include those for comparrison.

if it was muslims saying what he did about isreal, we'd have another thread about it with tons of people swering at them.

They already do.

http://www.charleslipson.com/Images/Burning-Israeli-flag-w-Palestinean-flag-color.jpg
http://zioneocon.blogspot.com/Israeli flag burning in Gaza.jpg
http://www.israelnationalnews.com/english/video/Gallery/flag-burn.gif - From Egypt
http://www.haaretzdaily.com/hasite/images/iht_daily/D280902/gaza_flag280902_ap.jpg - From Palestine
http://www.aljazeerah.info/News photo negatives/2004 phot originals/March/L_127a.JPEG - From Iraq, 2002
http://www.eretzyisroel.org/~jkatz/independence.jpg - The Arab Legion attacks Jeurusalem in 1948

The Arabs not only rejected partition, but attacked Israel from all sides. On the day that Israel declared its independence, the Arab League Secretary, General Azzam Pasha declared "jihad", a holy war. He said, "This will be a war of extermination and a momentous massacre which will be spoken of like the Mongolian massacres and the Crusades".1 The Mufti of Jerusalem, Haj Amin Al Husseini stated, "I declare a holy war, my Moslem brothers! Murder the Jews! Murder them all!" 2 The armies of lebanon, Syria, Jordan, Egypt and Iraq invaded the tiny new country with the declared intent of destroying it.3

^ From: http://www.eretzyisroel.org/~jkatz/independence.html

Here's some information on the Arab Legion

http://homepages.force9.net/rothwell/trans-jo.htm
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arab_Legion

Here's some information on their earliest Massacres:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jerusalem_Riots_of_1947
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kfar_Etzion_massacre
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hadassah_medical_convoy_massacre
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ben_Yehuda_Street_Bombing

Here are they're wars:

War against Israeli Indepedence, 1946-1948 - The First Arab Legion coup stages and launches with five Arab nations, they attempt to destroy Israel.

The Suez War, 1953-1956 - France and Britain defeat the Egyptian Forces as they try to cross into the Sinai. Israel before lead a buffer Invasion to push Egypt back, as it made claims for Israels total annihilation along with the aggressive mobilization of its forces just outside of Israeli borders.

Palestinian Israeli Conflict, 1960-20?? - Uprising against Israel which kills more of its Civilians then its Military

The Six Day War, 1967-1967 - Saudi Arabia, Egypt, Iraq, Iran, Jordan, Syria, Lebanon, seven Arab countries come together to reform the Arab Legion, and lead a failed conquest against Israel. All the countries media, leaders and military participants threaten Israel with a second Holocaust and publish stories of graphic attrocities commited to Jews to promote Islamo Fasso Nationalism. The threats goad Israel into defeating the Legion.

The War of Attrition, 1967-1970 - Egyptian Fedayeen move accross Israeli borders and begin attacks on Jewish Civilians -- in the meantime Egypt begins to fire missles and artillery at Jewish troops and states the Six Day Wars Arab Message, "The Jews will be annihilated."

The Yom Kippur War, 1973 - Egypts cheap war of continueing attacks against Israel, Egypt threatens Israel with massacre of its Civilians

The Osirak Raid, 1981 - Iraq taunts Israel into believing it can manufacture cheap grade Nuclear weapons, and threatens Israel with Nuclear Massacre. Israel responds with an air strike of their own.

The Israeli Invasion of Lebanon, 1982-1984 - Lebanon started by leading PLO attacks into Israel from their territories

The Israeli occupation of Southern Lebanon, 1984-2000 - Israels slow withdrawal from Southern Lebanon, ensuring to destroy the roots of the PLO

The Second Persian Gulf War - Iraq taunts Israel by firing Scuds into its territories, yet, Israel does not retalliate. The Iraq Coalition crumbles.

The "Al-Aqsa Infitada" War - Militant uprisings against Jewish Civilians and Israeli Occupation Force

Now, do you need quotes of what the Arabs were saying at these times? Because I don't, I see it in their conquests their inherent goals.

Seems like most of the middle-eastern countries at sometime or another said, "what that other guy had said". If not by the words then by their actions but nevertheless, they've had quiet a history in trying to holocaust the jews.

Were not counting the hundreds of border skirmishes, cease fire violations, and terrorist suicide-attack campaigns against Jews not only in Israel, but in other Middle Eastern countries.

I'm glad I'm not the only one who sees this ...what gets me is that this is exactly the same propaganda that was regurgitated for months in the lead up to the iraq war ..people really have short memories

Agreed. If you'll notice, these very same actions can be seen occuring in middle-eastern countries in, not only a response to the Danish cartoons ... but the mere existence of Israel and Western societies themselves.

This much, no one can deny.

and you dont see the hypocrisy? the US has nukes up the wazoo and they're far more likely to use them

Oh, and Stern, what would those "likely reasons" be?

iran defeted iraq while it had no military power. citizen's fought for their country, and if it happens again, they would. we won while no one was with us back in 1980. iraq had US and Isreal and lots of other countries supporting it. it ended up that sometimes they killed soldiers with bazookas. but iranians stood up and defeted iraq. now that iran is more powerful, what the hell can the US do? start a war? just because it's pissed off that iran is growing up? i tell you, if a war begins, i'll be one of the millions that would volunteer to protect their country.

What are you trying to say here ... ?

but why is it anyone's concern as to what another country does?

I agree, how come your not concerned about Iran?

the US has the most prisoners in the world, but no one cares.
they have killed people the worst way possible, but no one seems to care.

Wrong on your first account. The reason why the US has the most prisoners in the world (which I believe, is debateable) is because its a far larger country with a much bigger population then for say ... Iran.


Next, as for the US killing people in the worst ways possible, no. We might shoot in the head. But make no mistake, your people have beheadings, maimings, and lynching down to a fine art.

Do I need to start posting what I posted in other threads? Okie dokie, here we go again.

Remember, your point was that the US has a worst way of killing down pat.

US way of killing:

Electric Chair, Lethal Injection, Life in Prison Sentence, Hanging, Firing Squad

Number of Prisoners killed through the years [According to Amnesty International]

1930 155
1931 153
1932 140
1933 160
1934 168
1935 199
1936 195
1937 147
1938 190
1939 160
1940 124
1941 123
1942 147
1943 131
1944 120
1945 117
1946 131
1947 153
1948 119
1949 119
1950 82
1951 105
1952 83
1953 62
1954 81
1955 76
1956 65
1957 65
1958 49
1959 49
1960 56
1961 42
1962 47
1963 21
1964 15
1965 7
1966 1
1967 2
1968 0
1969 0
1970 0
1971 0
1972 0
1973 0
1974 0
1975 0
1976 0
1977 1
1978 0
1979 2
1980 0
1981 1
1982 2
1983 5
1984 21
1985 18
1986 18
1987 25
1988 11
1989 16
1990 23
1991 14
1992 31
1993 38
1994 31
1995 56
1996 45
1997 74
1998 68
1999 98
2000 85
2001 66
2002 71
2003 65
2004 59
2005 60

Irans methods of execution:

Beheading Fast, Beheading (Slow - Skipping until further permission), Maiming, Mob Lynching, Stoning, Drowning, Hanging, Firing Squad

Number of Iranians killed [According to Amnesty International]

http://web.amnesty.org/report2004/irn-summary-eng

I can't even begin to count.

Whether they have good reason to or not, not letting them in will only turn the world against them, so IMO they have more to lose if the rest of the civilized world starts backing an effort to completely reshape that country as well. Still, the Iranians are free to do whatever they want--well, those in power at least.

Exactly.

====

So, now that I'm done quoting, I'm just going to state this. You can't defend the actions of Iran in the hanging of those teenagers. To protect against ... what now? Corruption?

 

[jerkasaur]

Beheading Fast,

that was not in iran.

Maiming

that was a pic of a soldier, killed by iraqis, in the war between iran and iraq.

Drowning,

nope.
seriously, didn't anyone care when about 10-15 years ago, isrealis broke palestanian teen's elbows with bricks untill some died? umm, NO.
for now, i should go.

 

[Ome_Vince]

Lemme see if i get it. Systematically torturing ppl to death in Iran we should all find normal and ok because some rogue Israeli broke a palestinians elbow until they died?

"Some Israeli's did something similar, so stop bitching."

Your comparing country law with incidents. By that same logic you should also use the cases of innocent people being beat-to-death in Europe or other parts of the world...

Sure that israeli deserves jail, which he probably got. If not, he still deserves it. But so do the Iranians who perform these barbaric acts...

 

[K e r b e r o s]

that was not in iran.

Thought I'd give an example picture for the time being -- its harder to find the media on Iran, even though I know it exists.

that was a pic of a soldier, killed by iraqis, in the war between iran and iraq.

Yes, a picture of soldier who surrendered and was shot and maimed because he posed no threat to the Iranian Guardsmen.

As for those other photos, why no comments on them?

Figured those pictures would be easy to pick off, but trust me, they're not!

seriously, didn't anyone care when about 10-15 years ago, isrealis broke palestanian teen's elbows with bricks untill some died? umm, NO.

Seriously, does'nt anyone care when about 10-15 years ago an Infitada against Civilian jews began and the first people killed was a family of four by some crazies gunning them down with Kalashnikov rifles?