"Gay weddings"

[CptStern]

well then I cant see how you can be so sure that it's a choice ..especially since the rationale used is "well since there's no 100% undeniable genetic link then it MUST be a choice" ...sorry but that pretty much equates bigotry

 

[SIGbastard]

well then I cant see how you can be so sure that it's a choice ..especially since the rationale used is "well since there's no 100% undeniable genetic link then it MUST be a choice" ...sorry but that pretty much equates bigotry

It doesn't equate bigotry it's an opinion on a matter that is not well understood. The whole genetic link thing is very weak. The thing is there has been no overwhelming support for either side. Until there is then my belief stands firm. If there is a change in the understanding of how homosexuality relates to genetics and biology in humans then I will gladly be the first to say I was wrong if science shows that indeed I am. I know I am repeating myself but it really doesn't have to be 100% undeniable to have merit. It just isn't a scientifically supported fact like many would have you belief

Just because you feel very strong for an issue does not make you correct. I am telling you talk to just about any Neuroanatomist or Genetics professor and they will back up what I am saying. It is not that there is not 100% proof. It is that there is very little if any evidence and if there is any at all there is just as much to support the opposite side of the issue.

The choice belief is just a result of my observations and what I have learned about biology. It doesn't make me hate gay people. Half my mother in laws friends are lesbians. We are constantly having cookouts and other events with them. I could honestly care less if they are gay, but that does not change how I feel about whether it is a choice or not.

 

[CptStern]

It doesn't equate bigotry it's an opinion on a matter that is not well understood. The whole genetic link thing is very weak. The thing is there has been no overwhelming support for either side. Until there is then my belief stands firm. If there is a change in the understanding of how homosexuality relates to genetics and biology in humans then I will gladly be the first to say I was wrong if science shows that indeed I am. I know I am repeating myself but it really doesn't have to be 100% undeniable to have merit. It just isn't a scientifically supported fact like many would have you belief

Just because you feel very strong for an issue does not make you correct. I am telling you talk to just about any Neuroanatomist or Genetics professor and they will back up what I am saying. It is not that there is not 100% proof. It is that there is very little if any evidence and if there is any at all there is just as much to support the opposite side of the issue.

The choice belief is just a result of my observations and what I have learned about biology. It doesn't make me hate gay people. Half my mother in laws friends are lesbians. We are constantly having cookouts and other events with them. I could honestly care less if they are gay, but that does not change how I feel about whether it is a choice or not.

you're missing my point. If choice is what indeed motivates sexual preference there'd more than abundant examples of this ..in both the hetero and homosexual world. What you're saying in essence is that since there is no conclusive proof that genetics plays a part in determining sexuality then it MUST be choice ...but that doesnt make a whole lot of sense because that variable can be applied to anything .."since there's no conclusive proof behind the big bang it MUST mean that god created the universe" ..kinda of a loose analogy but it illustrates your logic fairly well imho

 

[Sulkdodds]

I will gladly be the first to say I was wrong if science shows that indeed I am.

It's not a matter of science. You're the only person I've ever encountered, gay or straight, who's claimed you had a choice in your sexuality. First-hand evidence has to count for something surely?

 

[Absinthe]

What because absinthe says so? Maybe you have been drinking to much of your precious juice.

Ok done for real this time.

No, because your bizarro reasoning skills offer insufficient rationale for your assertions.

And if you're done, then stay that way.

 

[K e r b e r o s]

I believe that gay marriage has waited a little long for its rights to become established. At least Britains doing something about this stagnant Bigot-trench war ...

 

[CptStern]

only 4 countries worldwide have same sex marriage ...I'm a citizen of two of those countries


here's a handy little intolerance map

 

[K e r b e r o s]

Wow, look at the middle east! Its been drinking Hatorade! (erm, another off shoot of Gatorade ...)

 

[Eg.]

im all for gay marriage, i honestly dont care what they do, as long as they stop complaining. but i am more concerned about is the child-adoption parts of marriage, like the social stimga a kid could have with having 2 daddys. while he may be the best dressed kid in school, he could also get the shit beat out of him every day

 

[Absinthe]

im all for gay marriage, i honestly dont care what they do, as long as they stop complaining. but i am more concerned about is the child-adoption parts of marriage, like the social stimga a kid could have with having 2 daddys. while he may be the best dressed kid in school, he could also get the shit beat out of him every day

This requires the creation of an environment that discourages such violent ignorance.

 

[SIGbastard]

you're missing my point. If choice is what indeed motivates sexual preference there'd more than abundant examples of this ..in both the hetero and homosexual world. What you're saying in essence is that since there is no conclusive proof that genetics plays a part in determining sexuality then it MUST be choice ...but that doesnt make a whole lot of sense because that variable can be applied to anything .."since there's no conclusive proof behind the big bang it MUST mean that god created the universe" ..kinda of a loose analogy but it illustrates your logic fairly well imho

I never said since there is no conclusive proof then it MUST be a choice. I said that im my OPINION I think it is a choice. The key word being THINK. You are reading further into it than you need to. I have said over and over it is my OPINION. I never tryed to claim it is undisputable TRUTH. I could be wrong.

It is my OPINION (so as not to confuse) that homosexuals are not going to admit it is a choice even if it is because it would be harder to justify their decisions to the world around them. Just claim you have no control. It's the easiest route.

If you have never met another person that thinks it is a choice then you don't get out much. I'd say in the US it's about 50/50 from my experience, but it really will depend on where you are in the US. If you are in San Francisco of course this will be different for instance.

 

[SIGbastard]

No, because your bizarro reasoning skills offer insufficient rationale for your assertions.

And if you're done, then stay that way.

I was done but then people started insulting me and calling me a bigot. I don't care if you disagree but don't call me something I am not. There is nothing wrong with my reasoning. You seem to be the type of person who if someone disagrees with you they are automatically strange, bizzare, or unreasonable. Get over yourself and your beliefs. I have a different opinion. It's as simple as that.

 

[Absinthe]

No, SIG. I'm not being intolerant when I tell you that the notion that people can just switch their sexual preference through sheer will is ridiculous and supported by no credible rationale. I'm being bluntly honest. Any negative vibes you get off of that is due to the incongruence generated between your assertions and reality.

I never called you a bigot, so I don't know where you get off with accusing me of flaming, or claiming that I view you as strange, bizarre, whatever. I just think that your particular viewpoint regarding this subject is backed by nothing but a lukewarm, subpar singular account derived from your mother. It's not worthy of applying any credence. Yes, people have different opinions. The very nature of an opinion, however, doesn't automatically shield it from criticism or negate how ridiculous it may be. I could have the opinion that blacks are an inferior strand of human evolution, but that doesn't grant it any validity.

If you honestly think that homosexuals would choose a lifestyle subject to ridicule, prejudice, and danger, then it is in my opinion that you are out of touch with any sensibility.

I want you to read this.
http://www.fallwell.com/exgay.html
Does this strike you as a person able to choose his sexual preference?
A singular account, I know. But I find it far more reliable than your mom story. Of course, you might just brush it off as a lie. After all, it's easier for homosexuals to claim they have no control over it.

 

[SIGbastard]

No, SIG. I'm not being intolerant when I tell you that the notion that people can just switch their sexual preference through sheer will is ridiculous and supported by no credible rationale. I'm being bluntly honest. Any negative vibes you get off of that is due to the incongruence generated between your assertions and reality.

I never called you a bigot, so I don't know where you get off with accusing me of flaming, or claiming that I view you as strange, bizarre, whatever. I just think that your particular viewpoint regarding this subject is backed by nothing but a lukewarm, subpar singular account derived from your mother. It's not worthy of applying any credence. Yes, people have different opinions. The very nature of an opinion, however, doesn't automatically shield it from criticism or negate how ridiculous it may be. I could have the opinion that blacks are an inferior strand of human evolution, but that doesn't grant it any validity.

If you honestly think that homosexuals would choose a lifestyle subject to ridicule, prejudice, and danger, then it is in my opinion that you are out of touch with any sensibility.

I want you to read this.
http://www.fallwell.com/exgay.html
Does this strike you as a person able to choose his sexual preference?
A singular account, I know. But I find it far more reliable than your mom story. Of course, you might just brush it off as a lie. After all, it's easier for homosexuals to claim they have no control over it.

I never said you were the one accusing me of bigotry but you did insult me. My opinion is supported by countless examples of credible rationale. I too can find things on the internet and post them as I did with the study earlier, but it does no good as nobody so much as comments on the posted material. Frankly I am getting tired of the ignorance in here. The ignorance not stemming from your opinions about homosexuality but that any opinion other than your own is completely uncredible.

My mother in law was used as an example which I have said countless times. It was never meant to be the basis of why I think homosexuality is a choice. I formed my opinion on the matter way before I ever met her or even knew of her past experiences and choices. I don't think any of you guys read sometimes honestly or my views just piss you off to the point that it doesn't matter what I have stressed over and over.

I'm sorry but simply repeating how uncredible you think someone or faulty their reasoning is just because you think so doesn't mean shit. Are you the almight purveyor of truth and wisdom? That's what you come across as trying to be when you continually lecture why others are so faulty without giving much reason other than you think this.

I'm done here this time. I don't care if anyone wants to insult or accuse me of bigotry anymore. It is apparant you guys think your so high and mighty that opinions of different nature than your own are offensive and unwarranted.

 

[SIGbastard]

No, SIG. I'm not being intolerant when I tell you that the notion that people can just switch their sexual preference through sheer will is ridiculous and supported by no credible rationale. I'm being bluntly honest. Any negative vibes you get off of that is due to the incongruence generated between your assertions and reality.

I never called you a bigot, so I don't know where you get off with accusing me of flaming, or claiming that I view you as strange, bizarre, whatever. I just think that your particular viewpoint regarding this subject is backed by nothing but a lukewarm, subpar singular account derived from your mother. It's not worthy of applying any credence. Yes, people have different opinions. The very nature of an opinion, however, doesn't automatically shield it from criticism or negate how ridiculous it may be. I could have the opinion that blacks are an inferior strand of human evolution, but that doesn't grant it any validity.

If you honestly think that homosexuals would choose a lifestyle subject to ridicule, prejudice, and danger, then it is in my opinion that you are out of touch with any sensibility.

I want you to read this.
http://www.fallwell.com/exgay.html
Does this strike you as a person able to choose his sexual preference?
A singular account, I know. But I find it far more reliable than your mom story. Of course, you might just brush it off as a lie. After all, it's easier for homosexuals to claim they have no control over it.

I never said you were the one accusing me of bigotry but you did insult me. My opinion is supported by countless examples of credible rationale. I too can find things on the internet and post them as I did with the study earlier, but it does no good as nobody so much as comments on the posted material. Frankly I am getting tired of the ignorance in here. The ignorance not stemming from your opinions about homosexuality but that any opinion other than your own is completely uncredible.

My mother in law was used as an example which I have said countless times. It was never meant to be the basis of why I think homosexuality is a choice. I formed my opinion on the matter way before I ever met her or even knew of her past experiences and choices. I don't think any of you guys read sometimes honestly or my views just piss you off to the point that it doesn't matter what I have stressed over and over.

I'm sorry but simply repeating how uncredible you think someone or faulty their reasoning is just because you think so doesn't mean shit. Are you the almight purveyor of truth and wisdom? That's what you come across as trying to be when you continually lecture why others are so faulty without giving much reason other than you think this.

I'm done here this time. I don't care if anyone wants to insult or accuse me of bigotry anymore. It is apparant you guys think your so high and mighty that opinions of different nature than your own are offensive and unwarranted.

 

[Absinthe]

I never said you were the one accusing me of bigotry but you did insult me. My opinion is supported by countless examples of credible rationale. I too can find things on the internet and post them as I did with the study earlier, but it does no good as nobody so much as comments on the posted material. Frankly I am getting tired of the ignorance in here. The ignorance not stemming from your opinions about homosexuality but that any opinion other than your own is completely uncredible.

What credible sources? You went off on some unrelated tangent about pedophilia and then said your mother chose her sexuality when that is CLEARLY not the case.

I'm sorry but simply repeating how uncredible you think someone or faulty their reasoning is just because you think so doesn't mean shit. Are you the almight purveyor of truth and wisdom? That's what you come across as trying to be when you continually lecture why others are so faulty without giving much reason other than you think this.

I can't give any reasons that haven't been given before. Your mother tried dating people of the same sex for a limited period of time and then gave up. Shouldn't this ring any bells for you? Everything else you've said is either unsupported or based on an assumption. You give the opinion that it's a matter of choice, but you offer no solid reasons or rationale as to why.

I'm done here this time.

Are you actually serious this time? I'll eat my hat if you are.

 

[Glirk Dient]

I did a quick google search and this was the first thing that popped up out of many...so it's pretty common.

http://www.leaderu.com/focus/exgays01.html

That says homosexual people can change and become straight.

http://www.leaderu.com/orgs/narth/bornway.html

There is an aricle that says it may be a mixture of genetics, environmental and psychological. To me that sounds a whole lot more convincing than its just genetic or just psychological.

 

[Llama]

As long as they are treated like humans, im happy

 

[bliink]

http://www.leaderu.com/focus/exgays01.html

The fact that the picture on that page was clearly edited casts more shadows over the reliability of that site as a source for balanced information. Clearly judging from the content, theres also a huge bias there.

Just go and talk to some gay people in person, and see what they say.. a sample of about 10 would probably render a fairly accurate result.. at least for the purposes of this forum.

 

[Sulkdodds]

My opinion is supported by countless examples of credible rationale.

What? Where?

I don't know if it's a genetic thing. It may be a combination of genetic factors, some odd difference in gene structure, and enviromental factors such as upbringing, psychology and influence. Maybe it gets cemented during puberty. Maybe it's set as soon as you're born. Maybe it slowly appears as you get older and more mature and develop a sense of identity? I don't really know and to be honest I don't think it's relevant unless you're some kind of crazy seeking a way to find out how to stop gays becoming gay. What it isn't is a choice - and this 'opinion' of mine is based on the accounts of every gay I've ever known personally (and every straight I've ever met except for SIGbastard) which is admittedly only four people but there you go.

 

[Jintor]

Look, it doesn't matter if it's genetic or a choice - they are human, they should be treated equally to everybody else.

 

[el Chi]

I'd reckon that about wraps it up, no?

 

[CptStern]

I never said since there is no conclusive proof then it MUST be a choice. I said that im my OPINION I think it is a choice. The key word being THINK. You are reading further into it than you need to. I have said over and over it is my OPINION. I never tryed to claim it is undisputable TRUTH. I could be wrong.

and your opinion is based on what exactly?

It is my OPINION (so as not to confuse) that homosexuals are not going to admit it is a choice even if it is because it would be harder to justify their decisions to the world around them. Just claim you have no control. It's the easiest route.

ok then why not just ask heterosexual people ..there's plenty of those around and I'm sure they have no qualms about honestly answering your question ...shouldnt be too difficult

If you have never met another person that thinks it is a choice then you don't get out much.

ya cuz living in a city that has the second largest per capita gay community in north america it's a rarity that I'd run into gay people. Not too mention that I went to university for fine arts ...no gays in the arts no sireebob ..or the fact that I was a teacher for 7 years ...no gay teachers that's for sure

I'd say in the US it's about 50/50 from my experience, but it really will depend on where you are in the US.

you've polled 300,000,000 people? ..wow you must have a ton of frequent flyer miles :O

so what's 50-50? 50% of americans think it's a choice? or 50% of gays thinks it's a choice? didnt know you had your ear on the pulse of gay culture

If you are in San Francisco of course this will be different for instance.

I've yet to meet a person in my 30+ years of life who said they've chosen their sexuality ...not one.

 

[Solaris]

you've polled 300,000,000 people? ..wow you must have a ton of frequent flyer miles :O

A thousand people or even a few hundred is all that is nessacary, but everything else is valid. WP.

 

[CptStern]

A thousand people or even a few hundred is all that is nessacary, but everything else is valid. WP.

do you really think he asked a thousand people "did you choose your sexual preference?" ...or even a hundred? ...he'd get a lot of odd looks I'm betting

 

[Mr Stabby]

we should question if ignorant people should be allowed too be married and bring up children.

 

[CptStern]

I second that motion

 

[Vigilante]

Meh...the shits disgusting but it should be allowed I guess.

 

[Flyingdebris]

i have no problems with gay people, i'm friends with a few lesbians and they make for very interesting conversation. I have no problems with two consenting adults marrying each other, that is their business.

Only gay thing i don't like is the "Fabulous!" element... For the same reason i don't like goths, supernerds (nerds who have transcended hygiene), emos, or gangstas. i find them annoying.

 

[Sulkdodds]

i'm friends with a few lesbians and they make for very interesting conversation

Yeah, it's just like speaking to a guy - no need to worry about sexual tension and you can talk about hawt girls - but far easier on the eyes!

 

[Jintor]

Only gay thing i don't like is the "Fabulous!" element... For the same reason i don't like goths, supernerds (nerds who have transcended hygiene), emos, or gangstas. i find them annoying.

You don't like goths? DEMON!

 

[Beerdude26]

You don't like goths? DEMON!

Yeah.

http://whatisgoth.ytmnd.com/

Come on, that's lovely, just accept it.

 

[chimpmunk]

People who call Homosexuals disgusting are probably feeling threatened by homosexuality and are affraid that might be homosexual themselves OR they are just trying to prove how "manly" they are (hint: if you have to prove it, you're not).

 

[Sulkdodds]

I seem to recall an experiment where a large sample of (straight) people were, one by one, sat down in a room in front of half an hour of hardcore gay porn. Each person's penis had a wire around it (super-sensitive measuring equipment lol!). Before this they'd had to fill in a very short questionaire about their views on homosexuality. Funnily enough, those who were against it were generally those who exhibited the largest penile reactions to the gay porn.

 

[CptStern]

ya it's probably best explained by saying the people who are extremely homophobic may in fact be over compensating for their own sexual ambiguity ....makes it almost comical if not for the fact that many crimes have been commited because of it

 

[chimpmunk]

Prooves my point. Homophobes are homosexuals in denial.

 

[Llama]

Classic :x