GM to go bankrupt by early 2009, Ford by 2010, ask for $25 Billion bailout

[theotherguy]

For mighty General Motors, the news could hardly be worse. The nation's biggest automaker said it lost $2.5 billion in the latest quarter as it was slammed by a slowing economy, global credit crisis and the effect of high energy prices.

The company is now going through cash at a rate of $2 billion a month and says that without help it will run out of money in 2009.

Ford burned through $7.7 billion in the latest quarter to keep its operations running but said it has enough cash to make it to 2010, when the economy and auto sales are expected to improve. Chrysler, now privately owned, does not report financial results but has a relatively strong cash position ? a major reason that GM was interested in acquiring the company from Cerberus Capital Management.

Faced with these sobering statistics, the Big Three are turning to Capitol Hill. On Thursday, the three CEOs and the leader of their biggest union met with House Speaker Nancy Pelosi to discuss another $25 billion in federal aid on top of a $25 billion loan allocated just a few weeks ago.

?I can understand the sentiment ? why reward failure? Why reward an industry that has suffered from 25 years of mismanagement?? said Bragman. ?The answer is the consequences of a major failure in the automotive industry far outweigh the cost of keeping the major automotive companies going."

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/27575144/page/2/

That's right folks, the Big Three are about to become the Big Two or even the Big One if Uncle Sam doesn't do something about it. 25 years of poor decisions, shitty cars, and failure to meet market demands have left the giants of American industry trailing behind their Japanese and European counterparts. The recession may be the last blow to these enormous companies.

 

[Vegeta897]

How is this Palin's fault?

Err, oh, nevermind.

 

[Kamikazie]

Because she bought $150,000 worth of clothes for the campaign.

Uh, oh, nevermind.

 

[Mr-Fusion]

The Bush government should buy out all these companies. God Bush is turning into such a goddamn communist. Communist republicans, what a world we live in.

If the company can't survive, let it die. It is the natural way of things.

 

[Mr-Fusion]

The answer is the consequences of a major failure in the automotive industry far outweigh the cost of keeping the major automotive companies going.

The good of the many.

Such a communist ideal is spreading throughout America.

 

[Escaep]

Say goodbye to Detroit forever if these go under. Even though it is already on the decline.

 

[delusional]

This is neither communism nor socialism.

It's closer to third way economics.

 

[Raziaar]

I don't care what company does it, but we need an automotive company with government funding to usher in a new era of American automobiles that are some of the most efficient the world has to offer. We're all sick of these shitty fuel inefficient vehicles being pumped out every single year.

And we don't need any of that hybrid shit either... we need real dramatic fuel efficient vehicles with very low emissions... that even the poorest families can afford. It won't come easy, but with enough money and R&D it can be done.

 

[delusional]

I don't care what company does it, but we need an automotive company with government funding to usher in a new era of American automobiles that are some of the most efficient the world has to offer. We're all sick of these shitty fuel inefficient vehicles being pumped out every single year.

And we don't need any of that hybrid shit either... we need real dramatic fuel efficient vehicles with very low emissions... that even the poorest families can afford. It won't come easy, but with enough money and R&D it can be done.

http://blog.wired.com/cars/2008/10/ah-grasshopper.html

insect car?

 

[Mr-Fusion]

Exactly. The insect car.

Australias car industry is semi-funded by the government and even now they're talking about needing huge layoffs and the death of the industry in this country.

World car industries need a shakeup. Yes. Ford and GM have churning out these petrol guzzling phallic compensation cars for too long.

Bring on the insect mobile.

 

[Raziaar]

I don't care if the car is as aerodynamic as a brick, or looks like a brick... and doesn't go 100mph.

I care about fuel efficiency as a whole.

 

[Vegeta897]

How aerodynamic a car is factors into its fuel efficiency.

 

[Raziaar]

How aerodynamic a car is factors into its fuel efficiency.

No shit sherlock. That doesn't mean it can't end up being far more fuel efficient regardless. That's what I was saying.

 

[ShinRa]

No shit sherlock. That doesn't mean it can't end up being far more fuel efficient regardless. That's what I was saying.

Now was that nice?

 

[Raziaar]

Now was that nice?

I'm just snapping at my best friend Vegeta because he keeps singling my posts out in these politics forums.

 

[Vegeta897]

I had already posted in this thread before you arrived. When I post in a thread I tend to keep tabs on it and am more likely to reply when I see something to reply to.

 

[Krynn72]

I had already posted in this thread before you arrived. When I post in a thread I tend to keep tabs on it and am more likely to reply when I see something to reply to.

No shit sherlock. That doesn't mean you have to make a comment on every post of his regardless. That's what I was saying.

 

[Ravioli]

Anyone have status report on how Wallmart is doing? or are they still invinsible?

****ers never die

 

[Krynn72]

Walmart is probably doing better than ever. They thrive on this shit. Same with the whole entertainment industry.

 

[Iced_Eagle]

I don't care if the car is as aerodynamic as a brick, or looks like a brick... and doesn't go 100mph.

I care about fuel efficiency as a whole.

Well, aerodynamics is a huge part of fuel efficiency, but I agree that I really care about fuel efficiency in cars.

I mean, for gods sake the Ford Model T from 1908 had 21 MPG Granted, it didn't have all of the luxuries we have today (heating, air conditioning, etc) but it was made out of metal, which was very heavy obviously when compared to the materials cars are made out of today.

You would think with a century of learning that we could get cars going a lot more efficient. Nope. The 60's, 70's and 80's, and even today too, was mostly all about horse power, "American Muscle" and all of that. Everyone was just so focused on getting it going fast from 0-60 as quick as it can. Damn be how fuel efficient it can be! Back then, global warming, or a potential oil crisis was on anybodys minds.

*sigh* But I digress. So these car manufacturers really need to get their shit together. If we have every major company asking for multi-billion dollar bailout, our government won't even be able to lend out anymore money.

 

[Raziaar]

It never benefitted American automobile manufacturers to build fuel efficient vehicles.

And they treat us like morons... with commercials touting amazing 24 mile per gallon fuel efficiency!

OMG 24MPG! YOU DON'T SAY! WE'RE LIVING IN THE FUTURE!

Well, aerodynamics is a huge part of fuel efficiency, but I agree that I really care about fuel efficiency in cars.

I don't honestly know... but I would think that aerodyamics is like, icing on the cake, that lets you tweak the fuel efficiency and speed of an engine... icing on the cake, even if it is delicious icing... whereas the true bulk of fuel efficiency comes from the engine and other automotive parts themselves.

But then again, I don't know.

 

[blahblahblah]

I've heard people say GM cars have made dramatic leaps in the quality of the cars they are producing now. That may be the case, but I've been screwed by a crappy GM car before, and won't be going back. Really, its a miracle that GM is still in business. I guess people haven't realized a good quality car (Toyota, Honda, other brands) is nearly the same price as a crappy GM car.

Either way, this situation will not end in jobs for everyone. The simple math is that more cars are being produced that what is needed. So there will be layoffs no matter what. Its a matter of when, how much, and where the layoffs will occur.

 

[Raziaar]

Walmart is probably doing better than ever. They thrive on this shit. Same with the whole entertainment industry.

Yep. Walmart is doing great I just heard on the news... as more and more people buy cheap.

A deep recession is going to have a huge impact on the waistlines of Americans as well, no doubt. As income levels drop, weight gain and obesity cases rise.

It's a shame really that obesity is no longer a sign of great wealth or even necessarily bad eating habits(though it is in many cases), but is largely a sign of low wealth as people are forced to buy cheaper food to stretch their dollar.

 

[dfc05]

It never benefitted American automobile manufacturers to build fuel efficient vehicles.

And they treat us like morons... with commercials touting amazing 24 mile per gallon fuel efficiency!

OMG 24MPG! YOU DON'T SAY! WE'RE LIVING IN THE FUTURE!



I don't honestly know... but I would think that aerodyamics is like, icing on the cake, that lets you tweak the fuel efficiency and speed of an engine... icing on the cake, even if it is delicious icing... whereas the true bulk of fuel efficiency comes from the engine and other automotive parts themselves.

But then again, I don't know.

I think aerodynamics is pretty important, but I'm not expert on that.

American car companies need to get with the times on fuel efficiency though. I think the government is partly to blame for not setting stricter standards/taxes for fuel economy. I did a short policy report on it last year, and the standards are really outdated. For example, the "gas guzzler tax" hasn't been changed since 1991, and the CAFE (corporate avg fuel economy) standards were constant since 1990 and just changed last year. And then, they didn't even include the big cars like SUVs since nobody expected normal consumers to ever want/need to own big SUVs back when the policies were established in 1975 and 1978. It's almost like industry and consumers were being encouraged to make/buy SUVs because they didn't have fuel economy taxes on them. I did a rough calculation on the amount of taxes that would have been collected if the gas guzzler tax had been applied to the average SUV in 2005 (not even including the taxes that could have been collected with updated CAFE standards)... and it was $9.93 billion. :|

 

[CptStern]

That may be the case, but I've been screwed by a crappy GM car before, and won't be going back.

^- this

Really, its a miracle that GM is still in business.

and this

I guess people haven't realized a good quality car (Toyota, Honda, other brands) is nearly the same price as a crappy GM car.

also this

Either way, this situation will not end in jobs for everyone. The simple math is that more cars are being produced that what is needed. So there will be layoffs no matter what. Its a matter of when, how much, and where the layoffs will occur.

might as well agree with this too :E

the auto industry in and around toronto sustains the economy. gm shutdown would mean a ton of lost jobs.

 

[Escaep]

Yep. Walmart is doing great I just heard on the news... as more and more people buy cheap.

A deep recession is going to have a huge impact on the waistlines of Americans as well, no doubt. As income levels drop, weight gain and obesity cases rise.

It's a shame really that obesity is no longer a sign of great wealth or even necessarily bad eating habits(though it is in many cases), but is largely a sign of low wealth as people are forced to buy cheaper food to stretch their dollar.

So true. You can feed a family of five at McDonalds for less than $20.

We should have started working on hydrogen/alternative fuels following the "gas crisis" of the 70s/80s. The technology is there and can be implemented but the price is astounding. These hydrogen powered cars are like $1 million. My dad got to test drive a hydrogen powered car where he works (Kennedy Space Center,) he said they are really quiet and can pack a considerable punch when you hit the accelerator. My dad has been talking about trying to get one of the hydrogen cars for us as a tester since we have a hydrogen fueling station not to far from us.

 

[CptStern]

are they all having small fries?

 

[Escaep]

are they all having small fries?

Probably not. I rarely eat at McDonalds/Fast food in general so i really don't know what prices are. Big Mac meals are what, like $5 with fries and drink? Maybe a family of 4 on $20.

 

[CptStern]

about $6.50 in canada I think ..so a little over $30 for 5 but ya I got the point you were making

 

[Escaep]

about $6.50 in canada I think ..so a little over $30 for 5 but ya I got the point you were making

Something like that lol. Plus all the artificial chemicals and stuff keeps you full for the next few days... Last month i had Wendy's for lunch, the whole double cheeseburger meal and all, wasn't hungry till next day at dinner time. :cheese:

 

[Moods]

Walmart is probably doing better than ever. They thrive on this shit. Same with the whole entertainment industry.

It's ****ing amazing to, how they keep going and going all over the world.

 

[No Limit]

If my company goes under I'll probably be on the verge of bankruptcy too. Where the **** is my bail out?

 

[CptStern]

ask for $10,000,000,000

 

[Raziaar]

about $6.50 in canada I think ..so a little over $30 for 5 but ya I got the point you were making

Or they can get like 20 of those 1 dollar items that probably has enough calories combined to last somebody a week.

 

[Escaep]

Or they can get like 20 of those 1 dollar items that probably has enough calories combined to last somebody a week.

Or the 59 cent cheeseburgers on like Wednesdays and Fridays. :frog:

 

[theotherguy]

Circuit City apparently just went bankrupt, and DHL is soon to follow.

The recession is going to hit us hard.

 

[Krynn72]

I ain't scared a no ree session. Alls I need is mah trusty ol' .22 ta feed me.

 

[TwwIX]

Bailing these companies out would only slow down their imminent demise.
I wouldn't give them a cent unless they make drastic changes to their management teams,engineers and revamp their entire car catalogs.
If you can't come up with a green and fuel efficient vehicle that's affordable for every average citizen, then you shouldn't be allowed to develop any more cars whatsoever.
The days of gas guzzling Humvees,SVU's,Sports Cars etc. is coming to an end.
The bankruptcies of these companies will only encourage younger and future car engineers to develop alternative fuel sources for our cars.
Yes, a lot of people are going to lose their jobs. One way or another,we are all going to be required to sacrifice something.
In the end,we'll be better off than we are now.

 

[Kukaku]

Circuit City apparently just went bankrupt, and DHL is soon to follow.

The recession is going to hit us hard.

Holy shit, Circuit City has gone bankrupt?
You're right, it is going to hit hard.
I'm in Canada so i'm not in the center of the boiling pot but...damn.

 

[Mr-Fusion]

I just read that General Motors gives ex employees health care and a pension after they retire!!!!!!!! WWWTFBQ!! That's very nice, but mein got, is that financially viable?

Death to the big three, sad but inevitable.

Let some new car companies rise from the ashes in America. Certain to happen. New companies with new ideals.