Google Imposes Worldwide Ban On China Critical Website

Sulkdodds said:
I wonder if communism would work in small groups? ie villages and actual communes?
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'Primitive communism', at least according to marx, was the original hunter-gatherer society. AFAIK it was only when humans started producing surplus that societal inequalities were introduced.

So I suppose there's an opportunity for a primitive communism to work. But I don't really know enough about communisty stuff to know whether that lot makes sense or not :p

Angry Lawyer said:
YOU GET SCIENTISTS RULING THE PLACE.
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They'd perform perverse experiments on the whole of humankind! D:
 
ComradeBadger said:
Let's just end this with this:

The very idea of communism is deeply flawed.

You can't argue that a system is perfect but human nature is flawed - the system is therefore imperfect as it fails to take into account human nature.

Communism and communist ideals are based on a 19th Century view of the world - and the ideal communist method of production (the proto-factory/artisan labour) actually accelerates the development of a capitalist system.

Marxist theory has been disputed and overturned time and time again with regards to it's ineffective and over-simplistic attitude to history. The crux of the idea is that a man's relation to the economic base determines his political views and associations. This again, is quite simply a gross oversimplification, as with almost all Marxist/Communist theory.

Class structure was never the deciding factor in where people draw the line - personal and regional concerns are more of an influence. Class consciousness is a negliable force (it's very existance is debatable) and today's society, while it could benefit from being more socialist - is decidedly 'class-mobile'

[Though I despite the word 'class' and all it's conetations, I had to use it to explain my arguement]

I thank you.
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You know, you sound like a republican trying to disprove global warming by pointing out that the globe has warmed up and cooled down by itself. Which is offcourse something allredy known by all of them for al ong time, and something which completly misses the point of why people are concerned about global warming.
Now this and all the threads you have made so far about communism don't really add much to the discussion cause you keep repeating the same thing that the rest of have know for a long time.
Not only that you keep defending kapitalism. A system so fine that when it was implemented and followed to it's fullest millions of people where literally dying of starvations, a system so fine that worked so good that people felt the need to come up with other systems like communism. Now marx was not dumb, for his time he was a pretty dammed smart guy with a threory that in the end was dammed flawed, but hindsight is always 20-20, atleast he made a try and you can't expect a theory so encompassing so much dimensions to be without flaws. The fear communism revolution atleast got the dammed government to implement social laws and life imporved a hell of a lot since then. This may come as a surprise but life for avrage joe didn't inprove since the revolution started untill after the first world war, in essence life was better ofr a farmer in the middle ages then it was for a worker between the start of the industrial revolution and 1920. Now that some madman decidded to kill millions in name of does not make it worse, just like it doesn't make religion or kapitalism any worse by beeing abused. Plus weather a system works or not depends on the scale and many other factors.
Add to that, hat the idea of logical self-intrest which is the basis of pure kapitalism is itself a flaw, and I should know. It's one of the first thing thought to me in Business Administration.

And the worst thing of all, as far as I can see you keep using this to attack the ideas of modern socialist, which is rediculus. todays rightwingers and socialist have both leanred for the mistakes of both dammed theaories and in practise apply ideas of both, just in a different ratio. And as far as I know scandinavian countries, the ones that are the most left are doing fine, not any worse then the USor other really rightwing economis, in some areas even better.



And for the rest of you
What is this with pwning owning solaris, this kind of behavior is exaclty what ruins a forum, your just making post for the sake of trying to diss him or laugh. So what, even if he made a mistake there is no reason to get all over him as flies on dogshit. Goddam there are many people here who just take every excuse to be assholes to other people.
 
Damn straight, I love yelling at Solaris. It's fun - I'd advise you to try it.

Technocracy > modern socialist, too.

-Angry Lawyer
 
I don't argue with Stern much, because he can be reasoned with :D

-Angry Lawyer
 
Grey Fox said:
You know, you sound like a republican trying to disprove global warming by pointing out that the globe has warmed up and cooled down by itself. Which is offcourse something allredy known by all of them for al ong time, and something which completly misses the point of why people are concerned about global warming.
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Arguing from analogy is a weak form of argument as every analogy is instrinsically flawed. I'm not trying to disprove a scientific fact, I'm arguing against a political system and it's implementation.

Grey Fox said:
Now this and all the threads you have made so far about communism don't really add much to the discussion cause you keep repeating the same thing that the rest of have know for a long time.
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I'll stop when someone actually adresses my points.

Grey Fox said:
Not only that you keep defending kapitalism. A system so fine that when it was implemented and followed to it's fullest millions of people where literally dying of starvations, a system so fine that worked so good that people felt the need to come up with other systems like communism.
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Marx in fact thought he'd discovered the laws of History, and that communism was a system that emerged from the ashes of capitalism once the process had exhausted itself. I'm not defending capitalism - just becuase I attack the ideals of communism doesn't mean I think capitalism is perfect.

Grey Fox said:
Now marx was not dumb, for his time he was a pretty dammed smart guy with a threory that in the end was dammed flawed, but hindsight is always 20-20, atleast he made a try and you can't expect a theory so encompassing so much dimensions to be without flaws. The fear communism revolution atleast got the dammed government to implement social laws and life imporved a hell of a lot since then. This may come as a surprise but life for avrage joe didn't inprove since the revolution started untill after the first world war, in essence life was better ofr a farmer in the middle ages then it was for a worker between the start of the industrial revolution and 1920. Now that some madman decidded to kill millions in name of does not make it worse, just like it doesn't make religion or kapitalism any worse by beeing abused. Plus weather a system works or not depends on the scale and many other factors.
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The communist revolution in Russia was neither popular nor far-reachingly revolutionary - life for the peasantry and the workers experienced little progress. In fact, Lenin wasn't EVEN IN Russia when the final stages began, the Kaiser of German had him sent on a special train simply becuase discord in Russia would help the German position immensely.


Grey Fox said:
Add to that, hat the idea of logical self-intrest which is the basis of pure kapitalism is itself a flaw, and I should know. It's one of the first thing thought to me in Business Administration.
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I'm not even sure what you're trying to say here, sorry. Pure capitalism isn't a good thing, and I'm not defending it.

Grey Fox said:
And the worst thing of all, as far as I can see you keep using this to attack the ideas of modern socialist, which is rediculus. todays rightwingers and socialist have both leanred for the mistakes of both dammed theaories and in practise apply ideas of both, just in a different ratio. And as far as I know scandinavian countries, the ones that are the most left are doing fine, not any worse then the USor other really rightwing economis, in some areas even better.
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I'm a socialist, I believe in left wing government as part of a representitive democracy. I'm not quite sure what you mean by the ideas of a 'modern socialist' - if you'd care to elabourate I'd quite happily deal with that.
 
comeradebadger said:
I'll stop when someone actually adresses my points.
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Why would we adress or agrue your points, they are right for the most part.. It's just that you are making points that everybody allready knows. Plus you slip in a few arguments that use flawed theaories from early pure capitalism.
And I'm just using an analogy to illustrate my point better not as a tool to give it more credence.

Marx in fact thought he'd discovered the laws of History, and that communism was a system that emerged from the ashes of capitalism once the process had exhausted itself. I'm not defending capitalism - just becuase I attack the ideals of communism doesn't mean I think capitalism is perfect.
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What can I say I have seen you defend the pure capitalism ideas numerous times, and even uset he self-interest and other main ideas of pure kapitalism to disprove communism. Those ideas which are in itself flawded. Thats why i thought you were a defender of pure capitalism.

The communist revolution in Russia was neither popular nor far-reachingly revolutionary - life for the peasantry and the workers experienced little progress. In fact, Lenin wasn't EVEN IN Russia when the final stages began, the Kaiser of German had him sent on a special train simply becuase discord in Russia would help the German position immensely.
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Again I know all that, but you are missing the point and are imo even wrong on the one you are trying to make. Communism had great support, in russia, and especially a lot of asian countries, and other colonies, because it was one of the first theories to equalize people, and woman to men. Add to that the world wars that proved that we were just as barabaric as anyone else. There is a reason why communist revolts succeded and not of any other kind. Hell it was even in western europe popular.
And my point was that communism itself did not help people, but the fear of a communist revolution which was very real at that time sparked changes, plus numerouse ideas out of communism where later used by socialst government all over wester europe, which really did improve life.

I'm not even sure what you're trying to say here, sorry. Pure capitalism isn't a good thing, and I'm not defending it.
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I'm sorry i was under the inpression that you were defending it.

I'm a socialist, I believe in left wing government as part of a representitive democracy. I'm not quite sure what you mean by the ideas of a 'modern socialist' - if you'd care to elabourate I'd quite happily deal with that.
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What can I say. I had no idea. Any argument about left vs right I have seen from you has been in favour for the right. Plus the arguments U used were basic capitalist ideas like logical self-interest.

And what I mean by modern socialism. Is basicly an idealogy, that supports private owndership, and induvidual rights, but still retains many of the worker protective measures from communism and to a degree the diea of wealth distribution and equalisation, for example by means of progressive taxes.
 
http://www.spacewar.com/Google_Bans_Australian_Based_Military_Space_News_Website.html
Google Re Indexes SpaceWar.com
 FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE - FEB 25, 2006
Google Inc. has responded to requests
to re-index our associated Internet site - SpaceWar.com - a daily news wire covering military space issues.
Many thanks to all our readers who helped by sending emails and picking up the phone.
We look forward to a continuing and profitable partnership with Google to provide readers with highly contextual ads driven by our growing database of news and information. Both are outstanding products and we readily recommend that companies buy keywords on our websites via the Google Ad Words system.
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http://www.spacewar.com/Google_Bans_Australian_Based_Military_Space_News_Website.htmlhttp://www.spacewar.com/Google_Bans_Australian_Based_Military_Space_News_Website.htmlhttp://www.spacewar.com/Google_Bans_Australian_Based_Military_Space_News_Website.htmlhttp://www.spacewar.com/Google_Bans_Australian_Based_Military_Space_News_Website.htmlhttp://www.spacewar.com/Google_Bans_Australian_Based_Military_Space_News_Website.htmlhttp://www.spacewar.com/Google_Bans_Australian_Based_Military_Space_News_Website.html
They reindexed it.
 
Grey Fox said:
What can I say. I had no idea. Any argument about left vs right I have seen from you has been in favour for the right. Plus the arguments U used were basic capitalist ideas like logical self-interest.

And what I mean by modern socialism. Is basicly an idealogy, that supports private owndership, and induvidual rights, but still retains many of the worker protective measures from communism and to a degree the diea of wealth distribution and equalisation, for example by means of progressive taxes.
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I'd say I'm left wing, but I'll defend the right if I feel people are being unjust.

And I agree to a certain extent with your definition of 'modern socialism :)
 
As far as i'm concerned - all things in moderation.

Communism - bad
Free Market Capitalism - very bad

Market Socialism (aka the Scandinavian Model) FTW!
 
gick said:
As far as i'm concerned - all things in moderation.

Communism - bad
Free Market Capitalism - very bad

Market Socialism (aka the Scandinavian Model) FTW!
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Good thing that the "Scandinavian Model", the best thing since sliced bread (according to you :rolling: ), can only work in a bunch of minor countries. USA FTW! :frog:
 
Some_God said:
Good thing that the "Scandinavian Model", the best thing since sliced bread (according to you :rolling: ), can only work in a bunch of minor countries. USA FTW! :frog:
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Only been tried in a few minor countries.
 
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