Goverment lie's

Sigh, it is clear people just wont drop this ridiculous topic. If you need to keep lying to yourselves to feel you are 'superior' to the rest of us because you 'think outside of the lines' then go ahead. I, for one, can think outside of the lines without taking it far too extreme as you people have.
 
clarky003 said:
sounds like the words of a person who isnt really sure himself, more along the lines of a worried assurity.

show me clear pictures of a 757 , from any of those multiple suggested camera's, which should of caught it, then you can lay this topic to rest
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no, I am sure of my position. I am offended at this theory though. My dad didn't spend 30 ****ing years in the military to have some piss ass conspiracy theoriest start spouting flase crap everywhere. It is an insult to me, that is why I am pissed off at it.

We don't have those cameras, break down the other facts. The other facts will prove who is right. Anyways, what is another camera going to do? I broke down the calculations and assuming a speed of 300 mph, the plane was traveling 440 feet per second. Now assuming video records at 24 frame per second. That means that the plane is moving 18.3 feet inbetween each screen grab. How is that going to clear up the footage we already have. It will be just as blurry as the footage we already have. Not to mention that most security cameras record at a horrible resolution. How are you going to identify a 757 from a low res video that has massive motion blur in it? You can't. Having additional video won't help at all.
 
blahblahblah said:
no, I am sure of my position. I am offended at this theory though. My dad didn't spend 30 ****ing years in the military to have some piss ass conspiracy theoriest start spouting flase crap everywhere. It is an insult to me, that is why I am pissed off at it.

We don't have those cameras, break down the other facts. The other facts will prove who is right. Anyways, what is another camera going to do? I broke down the calculations and assuming a speed of 300 mph, the plane was traveling 440 feet per second. Now assuming video records at 24 frame per second. That means that the plane is moving 18.3 feet inbetween each screen grab. How is that going to clear up the footage we already have. It will be just as blurry as the footage we already have. Not to mention that most security cameras record at a horrible resolution. How are you going to identify a 757 from a low res video that has massive motion blur in it? You can't. Having additional video won't help at all.
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you dont know till youve seen it, some of those positions could of provided wider shots, and perhaps got a profile of the craft atleast. or a better estimate as to its velocity, and it's behaviour.

Neutrino said:
Sorry, but the air density at ground level is not enough to cause a plane to break up. That's just silly.
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so what we need to do is go fly a 757 at 2 feet off the ground , at 545 mph in the lower atmosphere, under 5'000 feet. concorde can only do mach 1 above 60'000 feet due to air density and pressure,

its the equivalent of concorde doing mach 1 at around 2,000 feet (and concordes way more dynamic). it would just break apart with the turbulent stress.
 
clarky003 said:
you dont know till youve seen it, some of those positions could of provided wider shots, and perhaps got a profile of the craft atleast. or a better estimate as to its velocity, and it's behaviour.



so what we need to do is go fly a 757 at 2 feet off the ground , at 545 mph in the lower atmosphere, under 5'000 feet. concorde can only do mach 1 above 60'000 feet due to air density and pressure,
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And your credentials for that claim would be?

Also, I'm somewhat doubting your numbers considering the actual topspeed of a Concorde aircraft is closer to mach 2 or about 1,350 MPH. And yes, air density does affect the top speed of an airplane because the greater the density the greater the drag on the aircraft. So yes, air density and pressure to dictate how fast a concorde can fly. But it does not automatically follow that it would break up if it was somehow forced to go faster than that.

clarky003 said:
its the equivalent of concorde doing mach 1 at around 2,000 feet (and concordes way more dynamic). it would just break apart with the turbulent stress.
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Also, a greater density at a lower altitude does not necessarily mean that the air flow will be more turbulent.
 
The title of this thread clearly shows how intelligent people who make up this bull shit are.

It's LIES you FUC|{ING MORON0

Maybe if you learned the difference between plural and possessive you would have realized by now that you're a dumb ass douche.

clarky003 said:
lol, now if they could release the video's and prove us wrong, that would work in their favour
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The pentagon released tape from a parking lot security camera that clearly shows the plane hitting the ground and sliding into the pentagon. It was on an ABC (a left-er news station) 9/11 documentary.
 
CptStern said:
oh they wouldnt stoop to telling half truths would they?

as somebody already pointed out: interesting but highly unlikely
Click to expand...

This is dealing with the Warren Commision. We are dealing with teh 9.11 Commision. I also wouldnt too much credential in a site that cant spell opinion right. I'm not saying I am a perfect speller myself, but I am also not trying to disprove the Warren Commision's results.
 
clarky003 said:
you dont know till youve seen it, some of those positions could of provided wider shots, and perhaps got a profile of the craft atleast. or a better estimate as to its velocity, and it's behaviour.
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So this proves the missle theory? So, we the public need to see additional footage how a 189 people died that day? Bah.

Anyways, the footage we have, the object (which crashed in the pentagon) is much larger than a missle. That isn't exactly explained with any missle theory I've seen.

The missle theory is full of holes and cannot be taken seriously.

Give me something credible, if you want me to believe this theory. Don't just say, "well because we don't have this footage, means that this happened".
 
Neutrino said:
And your credentials for that claim would be?

Also, I'm somewhat doubting your numbers considering the actual topspeed of a Concorde aircraft is closer to mach 2 or about 1,350 MPH. And yes, air density does affect the top speed of an airplane because the greater the density the greater the drag on the aircraft. So yes, air density and pressure to dictate how fast a concorde can fly. But it does not automatically follow that it would break up if it was somehow forced to go faster than that.
Click to expand...

I didnt say it was the top speed. I know from reading an article on concorde that they cruised at 60'000 before they pushed it from mach 1 to mach 2 , because of the otherwise harmful effects on the aircraft. palying within what it was designed to do.

all I can say is if that 757 didnt break up it was defying some considerable strain, the building front would of added to that strain and perhaps scattered the craft, a bit more than it did, instead it made a nice neat plowed section of holes through half on the more inner parts of the building, like it went through like a pencil point.

blahblahblah said:
"well because we don't have this footage, means that this happened".
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thats Ironic , that tone is often the opposing defence in many a debate.
 
OMG just allow the speculation, I don't particularly buy into myself, but let people speculate if they wish. Its not hurting you! If your sensitive about the topic, then just LEAVE IT ALONE.
 
clarky003 said:
I didnt say it was the top speed.
Click to expand...

clarky003 said:
concorde can only do mach 1 above 60'000 feet due to air density and pressure,
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Well, actually you did and it seemed rather important point as you were trying to use the faulty data to calculate at what speed and air density a plane would break apart.

clarky003 said:
all I can say is if that 757 didnt break up it was defying some considerable strain, the building front would of added to that strain and perhaps scattered the craft, a bit more than it did, instead it made a nice neat plowed section of holes through half on the more inner parts of the building, like it went through like a pencil point.
Click to expand...

Like I said earlier, if even one person that is actually qualified to examine plane crashes and who has engineering training supported any of these points I might consider taking it a little serisouly. However, it's just speculation by people who really aren't educated in the technical aspects of the crash, which is like a lay person trying to diagnose a medical disease.
 
after watching that, I personally think it was a missle, theres too much there to think otherwize, and the FBI getting rid of videos is also abit weird.

But whatever, I dont want to get into a fight about it, as I know fights are broke out, so I'll state my opinion and move on.
 
Well, actually you did and it seemed rather important point as you were trying to use the faulty data to calculate at what speed and air density a plane would break apart.
Click to expand...

no, if you read it again carefully I didnt, Concorde can only do mach 1 above 60'000 feet, I didnt say it was its top speed, and thats a fact, at 60'000 feet they push mach 1, it may actually be mach 1.4, but they continue upto mach 2 as they gather more altitude, something like 68'000 feet.
 
Planes crashing into the Towers and the Towers collapsing are some of the scariest things I've ever seen.
 
clarky003 said:
no, if you read it again carefully I didnt, Concorde can only do mach 1 above 60'000 feet, I didnt say it was its top speed, and thats a fact, at 60'000 feet they push mach 1, it may actually be mach 1.4, but they continue upto mach 2 as they gather more altitude, something like 68'000 feet.
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http://www.cnn.com/2001/WORLD/europe/07/16/britain.concorde/
Tuesday's verification flight will see Concorde fly at its top speed of 1,350mph while travelling at an altitude of around 55,000ft.
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http://www.pbs.org/kcet/chasingthesun/planes/concorde.html
Cruising Speed: 1,354 miles per hour
Flight Altitude: 60,000 feet
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http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2003/10/14/earlyshow/living/travel/main577918.shtml
Concorde is the world's only supersonic passenger aircraft, cruising at more than twice the speed of sound at around 1350 mph, and at an altitude of up to 60,000 feet
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http://www.aircraft-info.net/aircraft/jet_aircraft/aerospatiale/concorde/
Maximum Operating Cruise Speed Mach 2.04
Maximum operating altitude 60,000Ft
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http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/low/uk/1443443.stm
Test flight details
Expected duration 3 hours 40 minutes
Flies from Heathrow over Bristol, continues west of Ireland and south west of Iceland, returning to RAF Brize Norton
Top speed 1,300mph - twice speed of sound
Altitude up to 60,000 feet
Click to expand...

See, why I'm not exactly confident in your calculations.:)
 
i hate to piss on the conspiracy theorists missile parade, but it definatly was an airplane. after about 30 seconds on google i found the following pics, which prove that it was either 1) a missile painted like a ****ing american airlines jet, or 2) that your all full of shit. i think the 2nd is more likely.

also as i pointed out earlier, it is rediculous that the pentagon released THEIR security tapes with the "missile" on it, while they confiscated everyone elses. nothing adds up.
 
This is the time when all the people say "Uh, um, yea..., buuuu, nooo, it has to be Cheney's fault!"
 
Hey gh0st post the link to that site please, i'd like to see it.

(edit a spelling mistake)
 
oh, i just wanted to see the site, no offence man. Thanks for the link.
 
First off, thank you for insulting everyone who has family that died on 9/11. Honestly, had Pearl Harbor happened today there would be someone out there saying the government did it and that we shouldn't be invading Germany or fighting Japan. Its really sad that people get their kicks out of stuff like this. I'm not addressing to anyone on this forum just tired of it all, especially the constant bickering about the election. Why can't people discuss their views instead of insulting others. Nothing but facts will persuade people so saying that someone is blind or brainwashed doesn't help.

Allright, first off eyewitness reports are nothing but peoples opinions on what they claim to have seen. Unless they were ex-military and they had seen combat including missle and airplane strikes I'm not going to take anything that they say reliably. You expect me to believe that Joe Smoe knows what a missle sounds like?

Secondly, they made a mention of spools lying around. Had it been a missle the detonation and shockwave would have sent those spools flying away. So I don't see how that supports their point and the windows would have been shattered as well. The AGM-114 Hellfire (a anti-tank missle) travels at Mach1.1 again, you think a window is going to like the boom of a object flying at the speed of sound? I would also think that the "missle" used would be a lot bigger then a Hellfire so the damage would be even greater and resorting shockwave would probably send stuff flying away. Yay for intact windows though...I guess...

They mentioned that the Pentagon is made of walls of buildings surrounding other buildings. The only missle that has a blast like that capable of a directed detonation is a bunker buster know as a BGU-28. http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/smart/gbu-28.htm However, a bunker buster is a smart bomb, not a missle. In other words it doesn't fly two feet above the ground. Any other missle would not have made a penetrating blast like that, it would have exploded which means sending peices of the building outward, there wouldn't be a roof left to collapse and there would also be a very prevalent crater. As you saw in the pictures there was not crater inside the Pentagon and they also were kind enough to provide airplane crash pictures of other incidents which also left no craters. Just skorch marks.

I don't see how neat little holes support their claim either. Missles don't leave neat little holes in buildings. Unless I somehow missed that memo somewhere?

Another thing, half of those pictures had rescue men and clean up crews in them. Which tells me they were took after the crash. How long after? We don't know. Then they pick up random burnt objects and ask if it came from a plane. Well, did it come from the missle instead? No, missles don't have yellow ropes in them. However, a airplane cargo hold does.

The aircontrol operators said that the object on the radar was moving like a military jet. Which I assume means that it was making tight turns and flying wildly. Now, the only airplanes they have seen are the ones that come into the airport so unless one of them used to be a combat air controller in the Air Force he might just be looking at a 757 being flown by a crazy pilot.

Finally, the movie refers to the reporting of the incident as "the mind control machine". Honestly, at least get a unbiased source before you make claims like that. I learned that in Debate 101. Don't cite from biased sources. Geez people.

I admit that I made some assumptions about people and that the eyewintesses may very well be veterans and the air controllers have seen military planes and missles on their radar. But the flash doesn't say otherwise so I am going to stick with my claims.
 
you tell us that you won't believe someone unless they have military training, so... do you have military training, and should we believe you?
 
Innervision961 said:
you tell us that you won't believe someone unless they have military training, so... do you have military training, and should we believe you?
Click to expand...

I think you should just drop this while you are still behind.
 
Right, hey seinfeild, how about you go talk to someone who actually cares about what you have to say. So far, I have absolutely no respect for you or your opinions any more. I don't believe in this conspiracy in the first place, so you aren't hurting me, debunk it all you want. I've said that from the very begining.
 
Cooper said:
First off, thank you for insulting everyone who has family that died on 9/11. Honestly, had Pearl Harbor happened today there would be someone out there saying the government did it and that we shouldn't be invading Germany or fighting Japan.
Click to expand...

I agree with your points.
I'd just like to point out that many experts have different interpretations of the Pearl Harbour events. Some very credible documentation points to the attacks not being as much of a surprise as previously thought.

As dumb as that flash is, it's a fact that nearly every historical event is filled with all sorts of unknowns. We may never know the whole story. Government conspiracy or not.

Of course, the missing plane and eyewitness accounts pretty much obliterate any theory about a missile.
 
This has probably been said in here before but I am not going to read every post here so oh well:

It seems like anything that can happen that is good for the US is automatically a conspiracy to some people. Then anything that happens that is bad is also a conspiracy because people assume that it must have some sort of secret benefit.

The Moon Landing: OMG IT WAS GOOD FOR THE U.S. IT MUST BE A CONSPIRACY!

9/11: OMG IT MADE BUSH MORE POPULAR IT MUST BE A CONSPIRACY!

You can twist anything that happens to the point that any gullible person can believe a conspiracy is occuring.
 
gh0st said:
and by the way, you of excellent sources, please dont ever post a geocities link here again. that is just laughable.
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heh, who cares where it came from, it suited my purposes, or are you trying to dispute the warren commission? ...read my posts again; the implication is clear, the link was inconsequential and was picked at random
 
9/11 didn't make bush more popular in my eyes. It was his inaction that led to the attacks. The 9/11 commision has in fact stated that the attacks were preventable, and not only that i'll refer you to richard clarke. He couldn't even get a meeting with the president pre 9/11 to discuss counter terrorism measures, bush was to busy fishin' in crawford to care about the safety of the country. The bloodiest attack on american soil ever happens during this mans administration and all facts point to his inactions as contributing to this. And you people give him a free ride to the top of the pop chart because he can give a convincing speech with a megaphone.
Whatever.
 
no, clinton tried to attack al qaeda my friend, it was the republican back lash, and public outcry, after which that led him to back off. I will however agree that bush and clinton had the chance, but they didn't move... Both of them deserve blame for inaction. But its out of clintons hands now, and the attacks didn't occur until over a year after the bush administration had been in office. I have no more time to debate this, have to go to work. later
 
That flash is pretty well made, does add to the mounting pile of evidence that shows just how far the Bush presidency is willing to go to force feed the population his bullshite stories so he can go rape arabs for oil with the US populations backing. Sick.

Seinfeldrules - Just stop, you're making yourself look like an idiot. If you think you know better than the people in here, you're deluding yourself further - you don't. Now quit believing the horse-shit that your countries government are spoon-feeding you, and open your eyes. Get an opinion of your own that isn't based upon the media (that just happens to be funded and owned by the corrupt bastards anyway).

And oh yeah, vote Kerry... simply because it's impossible for anyone other than Bush to do a worse job than Bush has done. If you want America to get any sort of respect again as a country then please get that monkey out of the whitehouse.
 
lePobz said:
That flash is pretty well made, does add to the mounting pile of evidence that shows just how far the Bush presidency is willing to go to force feed the population his bullshite stories so he can go rape arabs for oil with the US populations backing. Sick.

Seinfeldrules - Just stop, you're making yourself look like an idiot. If you think you know better than the people in here, you're deluding yourself further - you don't. Now quit believing the horse-shit that your countries government are spoon-feeding you, and open your eyes. Get an opinion of your own that isn't based upon the media (that just happens to be funded and owned by the corrupt bastards anyway).

And oh yeah, vote Kerry... simply because it's impossible for anyone other than Bush to do a worse job than Bush has done. If you want America to get any sort of respect again as a country then please get that monkey out of the whitehouse.
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Your really not helping sway any to vote for Kerry if that is your intention. In fact you only make things worse for Kerry supporters with posts like that.
 
:sigh:

Its too bad these arguments will never be put to rest with one side winning (or getting as close to winning as possible) until long after all of these events are completely done. Until then its just two massive titans who are locked in a perpetual wrestling game. Any arguments that one side can bring up can be immediatly shot down by the other.

I just wish more people would be willing to do what I do and wait for everything to happen before making a decision, even if it could take years. Because once you have made a decision to pick a side in an argument like this there is almost no way for you to see any potential logic from the other and accept that maybe they could be right about some things.
 
I'm not trying to sway any votes, I just can't believe how people can believe what they are told 100% at face value, when there is so much evidence to suggest how corrupt these people are.

It also annoys me that these people can then come on forums trying to back up their corrupt government... it's almost like they've been brainwashed into doing so - like they simply can't believe any fact to the contrary, regardless of how much evidence is put before them.
 
The Mullinator said:
:sigh:

Until then its just two massive titans who are locked in a perpetual wrestling game.
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I'd rather nibble at their ankles eventually wearing them down ;)
 
Seinfeldrules - Just stop, you're making yourself look like an idiot. If you think you know better than the people in here, you're deluding yourself further - you don't. Now quit believing the horse-shit that your countries government are spoon-feeding you, and open your eyes. Get an opinion of your own that isn't based upon the media (that just happens to be funded and owned by the corrupt bastards anyway).
Click to expand...

Sigh, I know I should flame back, but you did my job for me with that post. Neutrino, I think you are going to have your hands full dealing with these guys.

I suppose you are right though. The media is truly corrupt. Instead of listening to them, perhaps I should start receiving my news via smoke signals. That way me and my bear buddies can live in happiness away from the corrupt America who does nothing right.

Yeah and you really are right about the Pentagon. 9/11 was one massive coverup by the zionist pigs with their mind control devices attached to the President's head. Everybody knows that! Or wait, is Bush their evil ring leader? Bah I think we'll need a Commision to deal with that issue. But then, since the 9/11 Commision couldnt undercover the well known deception, perhaps we should let you "outside the box" thinkers deal with it. Because we all know how much more intelligent you are.
 
CptStern said:
I'd rather nibble at their ankles eventually wearing them down ;)
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Ya but both sides have people that will do that. Besides what happens when one of them falls? You might get crushed. :O
 
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