Graphics aid gameplay?

[thefiznut]

I know I hear alot of people saying that gameplay is better than graphics, and graphics are better than gameplay. It's been a long debate. But, I was thinking. We're coming to a time in gaming where the level of detail and realism in game graphics is quite high. Do you think that graphics, although they are not gameplay, have a impact on the gameplay? Take Doom 3 for example... Sure it's all been done before, and the gameplay itself isn't anything to brag about. However, I found that because Doom 3 was so great in the visual department, it pulled me in and created a much more beleivable game world. I think because of this, shooting endless hordes of enemies wasn't really that bad at all. Maybe this only applies to a game like Doom 3, where fear is a big part of the game?

 

[Farrowlesparrow]

I think the two go hand in hand for games that are coming out now. There were games like space invaders that were fantastic with the two colours, and big pixels but newer FPS's just wouldnt be the same if they looked like Wolfenstien.

Graphics add to the "realism"(if there is such a thing in games)of it all, and make things just that little bit cooler. The problem with games that rely on graphics a lot, is that once newr games start to come out, they just kind of fade away because there is nothing to bring you back.

 

[thefiznut]

Yeah, you put it better than I did
I do think games are getting more realistic though. Unreal Engine 3 is going to change alot. But yeah, it seems like although graphics can add A LOT to a game, if the core of the game, originality, twists, etc are missing, then it still isn't much of a game.

 

[KagePrototype]

It's no secret that graphics can help create a great video game experience. It's what makes them immersive.

What I want to see is more effort in creating more immersive audio and sound design in a game. A lot of scary games see the potential of a good audio setup, and I'm glad id took it a step further with their "ambience only" stance.

 

[Warbie]

I think gfx alone can make make a game more enjoyable. Like you said, the Doom 3 experience really benefits from great visuals. Take away the gfx and it's a very different story, though. Put simply - without great gfx Doom 3 is mediocre.

To answer your question - graphics definately aid gameplay, but there's a limit to by how much. A great game is one that ages well. If the gameplay is solid then it will still be enjoyable regardless of when it's played, or how dated it looks. (I still play Golden Eye regularly with my mates. Counter Strike looks crap now - but is still the most popular online shooter. Tetris - the perfect example)

Do you think anyone will be raving about Doom 3 in two years time? Other games will be out with far better visuals. What will be left to make it stand out? Personally, I think it will be eclipsed very soon and quickly forgotten.

What about HL2? I'm thinking/hoping that this will be a different story (if it does last, however, it won't be because of the graphics)

 

[thefiznut]

Yeah Kage.. Sound is a BIG part of it. Gabe said Kelly is doing amazing work on the sound in HL2 though.

And Warbie, good point. I agree totally.

 

[KagePrototype]

What about HL2? I'm thinking/hoping that this will be a different story (if it does last, however, it won't be because of the graphics)

HL2 seems to be focusing more on gameplay design than graphics or anything else. I think I remember Gabe saying that cloth blowing in the wind is possible in HL2, but seeing it offers nothing in terms of how the player plays the game, there's no point in implementing it. It's obvious that Valve won't include something unless it directly affects gameplay, bar a few effects and features to keep up with the competition.

I'd probably describe Valve as console gamers developing PC games. They're more interested in accessible, fun gameplay rather than graphics that take advantage of high-end hardware.

 

[thefiznut]

Or maybe they're just the most intelligent PC developers?

 

[Prince of China]

Doom III had a similar philosophy.
With all the great advances in shadows and lighting, enemy A.I use it to their advantage, for example, in a darkened area of a room, the Imp would hide and give you a harder time.

 

[DarkStar]

Graphics matter. Anyone who says anything different is lying to themselves.

 

[KagePrototype]

Doom III had a similar philosophy.
With all the great advances in shadows and lighting, enemy A.I use it to their advantage, for example, in a darkened area of a room, the Imp would hide and give you a harder time.

Why would an imp actively seek out a dark part of the room to hide from you, only to give itself away by throwing a fireball at you? I don't think the AI actively searched out dark areas to hide in, the most they did was hide behind crates, and that was just the marines. The demons just ran at you, the most they were doing was side-stepping and being a bit of a nuisance to shoot (especially those lost souls...grr..)

 

[Prince of China]

I remember in Turok 2 for the N64 that if you turned off the blood in the graphical options, the undead couldn't attack you from long range.
That was because they threw blood at you at around 120 MPH.

 

[Farrowlesparrow]

I suppose after sound and vision, there are still 3 completely untapped senses.

Touch, Smell and Taste.

How those would be implemented, I have no idea.

 

[KagePrototype]

I suppose after sound and vision, there are still 3 completely untapped senses.

Touch, Smell and Taste.

How those would be implemented, I have no idea.

I remember Hideo Kojima commenting on how guards could actively hear you in Metal Gear Solid, and how he'd love to somehow incorporate smell into his games. For example, if Snake smelt a bit off, and a guard could smell you, he might come investigate.

 

[Farrowlesparrow]

So if(and this is a particually reaslistic game) you happened to have just taken a number 2 in the alley way and you of course left your toilet roll in your other bag they might notice you...Interesting,

Although, what about smell for us? For instance, we can see the game and we can heard the game but we cant smell, feel or taste the game (unless you like eating CS's but thats not really the same)

 

[KagePrototype]

So if(and this is a particually reaslistic game) you happened to have just taken a number 2 in the alley way and you of course left your toilet roll in your other bag they might notice you...Interesting,

Although, what about smell for us? For instance, we can see the game and we can heard the game but we cant smell, feel or taste the game (unless you like eating CS's but thats not really the same)

Well, in terms of touch, for consoles we have vibrating control pads, so that's at least something. Games like Silent Hill really use it to great effect, by simulating your heartbeat getting faster and faster as you're more and more hurt. As for smell, well we'd need a new perephiral that is able to create certain smells on the fly. I doubt we'll be seeing that anytime soon. I'm not sure how taste could be implemented very well...maybe some sort of pad on a headset, next the microphone or something, and you have to lick it...hmm, that's not very pleasant is it?

Actually, that's a bad idea, because you'd realise you're just licking your own headset and that might kill the atmosphere (if there is any in a game where you have to taste something to advance ). There would have to be something that actively interacts with your tastebuds for it to be effective. I doubt we'll be seeing anything like that for a while either.

 

[Farrowlesparrow]

hehe, yeah...What I was thinking by taste is more just the atmosphere and that little extra on top f smell that you get. Obviously is not really practical for a home game, but there are circumstances where you can almost taste something in the air and it relly adds to the atmosphere of the moment.