Gravity?

[Glirk Dient]

Does gravity exist? There are loopholes that say the current theory of gravity is false. It is an interesting read and is making me have second thoughts about whether or not gravity really exists.

http://www.re-discovery.org/gravity_1.html

One such argument is the moon. Why doesn't it get pulled into the earth, or for that matter the sun? If the sun can pull the earth from that distance shouldn't the moon be affected by both?

Also saturns rings, why don't they all get pulled into the planet?

Also...for every action there is an equal and opposite reaction. We know this to be true, so why do objects that pull on others with gravity not move? Shouldn't the earth be affected when it pulls the moon? Or a star that pulls an equally large star towards it?

 

[Pi Mu Rho]

Simple test:

1) Go to top of tall building

2) Jump off

3) Check to see if you fall to the ground at a uniform rate of acceleration

 

[Neutrino]

That is the single stupidest site I have ever read. Apparently they have never even read an entry level physics text book. I mean christ, they don't even understand basic orbital physics.

You are joking aren't you? Please tell me you're joking...

If the theory of gravity were true, it would show that the sun's gravitational force on the moon is much stronger than the earth's gravitational force on the moon, so the moon has to go around the sun. Anybody can look up at night and see the obvious gaps in gravity theory.

Ya, I remember learning about this misconception when I was a sophmore in highschool. The force of gravity on a planet or moon with respect to tides and such is proportional to the diameter of said body divided by the distance from that body to the source of the gravitational pull. Tides are due to a differential in gravity from one side of a planet to the other, not the total force of gravity exerted on the planet. This is why the moon creates much larger tides on earth than the sun.

 

[Glirk Dient]

That is the single stupidest site I have ever read. Apparently they have never even read an entry level physics text book. I mean christ, they don't even understand basic orbital physics.

Why doesn't the moon crash to the earth or the earth to the sun? Also explain the other examples in my first post. Seems there is some loopholes in gravity. For the most part the people with the anti-gravity sites are dumbasses but they have some good examples.

 

[Neutrino]

Why doesn't the moon crash to the earth or the earth to the sun? Also explain the other examples in my first post. Seems there is some loopholes in gravity. For the most part the people with the anti-gravity sites are dumbasses but they have some good examples.

You're actually serious? I'd suggest reading up on some basic physics. But since it's late and I have nothing better to do....

1) The moon doesn't crash into the earth because it has an orbital velocity such that it falls "toward' the earth in arc which which has the same radius as it's own orbital radius. (Well, not exactly, but assuming a perfect circular orbit it will suffice) To take an every day example, imagine holding a baseball above the ground and letting go. Ok, it falls to the ground in a straigh line. But now pick it back up and throw it in a horizontal direction. It didn't fall back in a straigh line now did it? Instead it fell back to earth in an arc. Notice that the faster you throw that baseball the larger the radius of the arc and the farther it goes before it hits the ground. Thus if you threw the baseball with enough force it's trajectory would match the arc of the earch's surface and it would never touch the ground again...ie. it would be in orbit. See, it's still falling toward the earth with an acceleration of 9.81m/s^2, but as it falls the earths surface "falls" away at an equal rate.

Now of course you can't actually get a baseball into orbit this way because of friction with the air. However, in space there is no friction and thus a body will continute to orbit practically forever.

2) Saturn's rings are made up of millions of large particles, which all orbit saturn in the same way the moon orbits the earth.

Also...for every action there is an equal and opposite reaction. We know this to be true, so why do objects that pull on others with gravity not move? Shouldn't the earth be affected when it pulls the moon? Or a star that pulls an equally large star towards it?

3) The earch is indeed affected by the moon's gravity. For one, this is why we have tides. Also, the moon does not just orbit the earth. The earth also orbits the moon. If we take the baseball from the previous example and orbit it around earth, the center of its orbit will be approximately the center of the earch because the mass of the ball is negligible with respect to the mass of the earth. However, in the case of the moon and earth both bodies exert a gravitational force on one another and thus they orbit around their mutual center of gravity.


Edit: Ok, I'm apparently too tired to think straight....and didn't even really read the sites main page till now. Obvious joke site. Sheesh.

 

[Glirk Dient]

You're actually serious? I'd suggest reading up on some basic physics. But since it's late and I have nothing better to do....

1) The moon doesn't crash into the earth because it has an orbital velocity such that it falls "toward' the earth in arc which which has the same radius as it's own orbital radius. (Well, not exactly, but assuming a perfect circular orbit it will suffice) To take an every day example, imagine holding a baseball above the ground and letting go. Ok, it falls to the ground in a straigh line. But now pick it back up and throw it in a horizontal direction. It didn't fall back in a straigh line now did it? Instead it fell back to earth in an arc. Notice that the faster you throw that baseball the larger the radius of the arc and the farther it goes before it hits the ground. Thus if you threw the baseball with enough force it's trajectory would match the arc of the earch's surface and it would never touch the ground again...ie. it would be in orbit. See, it's still falling toward the earth with an acceleration of 9.81m/s^2, but as it falls the earths surface "falls" away at an equal rate.

Now of course you can't actually get a baseball into orbit this way because of friction with the air. However, in space there is no friction and thus a body will continute to orbit practically forever.

2) Saturn's rings are made up of millions of large particles, which all orbit saturn in the same way the moon orbits the earth.



3) The earch is indeed affected by the moon's gravity. For one, this is why we have tides. Also, the moon does not just orbit the earth. The earth also orbits the moon. If we take the baseball from the previous example and orbit it around earth, the center of its orbit will be approximately the center of the earch because the mass of the ball is negligible with respect to the mass of the earth. However, in the case of the moon and earth both bodies exert a gravitational force on one another and thus they orbit around their mutual center of gravity.


Edit: Ok, I'm apparently too tired to think straight....and didn't even really read the sites main page till now. Obvious joke site. Sheesh.

I know a deal about physics...I have taken a few courses in it. I understand how gravity and all that work. This isn't the only site the attempt to refute gravity.

So the moon and earth roatate around a central gravitational point. Good, that disproves one. However why aren't they(the moon mostly) affected by the sun and other planets and pulled towards them?

Its late, im done trying to think. Perhaps ill wake up and figure this out myself . We will see.

 

[Dumb Dude]

I think you were done trying to think when you started beleiving this...

 

[Neutrino]

I know a deal about physics...

Um....no offense intended, but obviously you don't. That entire site is an obvious satirical joke about creation science.

I have taken a few courses in it. I understand how gravity and all that work. This isn't the only site the attempt to refute gravity.

What courses? Highschool? College? Basic kinematics? I don't see how you could have missed out on orbital physics.

So the moon and earth roatate around a central gravitational point. Good, that disproves one. However why aren't they(the moon mostly) affected by the sun and other planets and pulled towards them?

It is affected by the sun and other planets. The earth and moon orbital system is itself in orbit around the sun. The same principles apply.

I'm still not convinced that you're not just joking around....

 

[bliink]

Good, that disproves one. However why aren't they(the moon mostly) affected by the sun and other planets and pulled towards them?

Its late, im done trying to think. Perhaps ill wake up and figure this out myself . We will see.

The moon is closer to us, and we are both in the gravitational field of the sun. Therefore, moon orbits earth, and earth + moon orbit sun.

Its quite simple as far as I see.

The real question is whether gravity is a wave or particle.

 

[Neutrino]

The real question is whether gravity is a wave or particle.

Both.

Sorta, kinda, maybe....:dork: :smoking: :bounce:

 

[bliink]

Both.

Sorta, kinda, maybe....

Just throw "Dark matter" in there too

 

[the_lone_wolf]

HAHAHA, this is without a doubt the funniest site i've read in a long time...

the "discovery instutute" - http://www.discovery.org/ - was the organisation of creationists and a fringe of pseudo-scientists (by that i mean philosophers etc etc) that tried to get the dover school board to start teaching creationism (aka intelligent design) in the school

if you don't enter through the main page you would miss pictures like this:

yes, what we have here is nothing rarer than a scientists with a sense of humour

 

[Neutrino]

Just throw "Dark matter" in there too

Ooh, and dark energy.

It's what powers dark side of the force, ya know.

 

[Dumb Dude]

Hahahah! I'd bet Mr. Dient is going to feel a wee bit silly when he wakes up tommorow, I mean he was actually being serious and all. I hadn't bothered looking at that website until now, and boy is that some funny stuff.

Pure funniness:

http://www.re-discovery.org/solar_system_cc_small.gif

 

[Neutrino]

Hahahah! I'd bet Mr. Dient is going to feel a wee bit silly when he wakes up tommorow. I hadn't bothered looking at that website until now, and boy is that some funny stuff.

This is my personal favorite:

1. LEWIS DOT STRUCTURES. Why do chemistry textbooks and Mendeleevists tell students that electrons are black dots, bonds are lines, and atoms are letters? It's a lie. X-ray crystallography and the Schrodinger equation prove that electrons are not black dots, bonds are not lines and atoms are not letters. Tell your teacher to: Teach the Lewis Dot Structure Controversy!

 

[Zephos]

Honestly that is as stupid as that "Flat World Society" thing. They even say that Australia supposedly doesn't exist...HEY ****WITS I'M RIGHT HERE

 

[Neutrino]

Honestly that is as stupid as that "Flat World Society" thing. They even say that Australia supposedly doesn't exist...HEY ****WITS I'M RIGHT HERE

Who said that? Did anyone else hear something?

 

[Jintor]

Quiet, you Russian Scumbag!

(I assume a) you're russian and b) you're a scumbag here)

 

[Direwolf]

On a more serious note, the actual "cause" of gravity has always remained somewhat elusive. We understand and describe how gravity interacts with atoms, but it isn't totally clear exactly what the heck creates it. One of the more interesting theories proposes that its an echo of a much stronger force from another dimension which causes effects in ours (similar to quantum entanglement).

 

[WaterMelon34]

Scientists have no idea what gravity is really. They found gravity, they named it, and now they are looking for how it works. It is kind of wierd, how in the hell would a piece of matter become attracted to another piece of matter and start revolving around it!?

 

[marksmanHL2 :)]

and start revolving around it!?

Thats been explained allready....

 

[Raziaar]

 

[Dekstar]

I want my gravitational polarity reversed!!

 

[Beerdude26]

Calvin & Hobbes ftw.

 

[jerkasaur]

there is no such thing as gravity, n00bs!

 

[Sulkdodds]

That site is almost as funny as that Calvin and Hobbes cartoon.

 

[Bait]

The real question is whether gravity is a wave or particle.

We talking about the graviton here or what? I never heared any talk about whether it is a wave or a particle.... probably because no one has ever found it.

But, in reality, everything shows wave characteristics. Even us. It's just to minute, it's hard to notice.

EDIT: to the poster of this thread, F = - G \frac{m_1 m_2}{r^2} is the universal gravitation equation. Essentially, all gravitational energy is negative, and the gravitational force is inversely proportional to the square of the distance between the two objects in question. What that means is the force of gravity I posses is extending to infinity, but it gets weaker and weaker the further it goes. Same thing with the sun+moon.

Ahem.

 

[clarky003]

The real question is whether gravity is a wave or particle.

Its whatever the instrument you use to measure it reads it as, thats the only reason the duality exist's, photons are neither a wave or a particle they are both in instrumental terms... if you measure it both ways in the same instance it reads as both, suggesting its true nature is neither wave or particle.. but something else outside of instrumentation.

But of course gravity exist's, the planets orbit and velocity keeps them within a balanced threshold at their distance from the sun.. alot like centripetal force of a conker swung round on a string.

Although what gravity is, is the real question.. and so far as we understand its the side effect of the presence of matter in space time. Even people have their own gravitational field, but its so small in scale, you dont notice it.

Gravity as is understood now we have found that their is a B(3) field to the photon, its weak in terms of our scale because it is very fundemental, its interaction can only be properly understood in relation to other forces when you introduce 5 dimensions.

But if you want to get technical as I understand it, gravity is a result of the strain in vacuum, where matter exist's that strain exists because of the constant energy interaction with vacuum state keeping that matter in its constant observable state, we observe that virtual state strain as a weak attraction effect, or more accurately a warping of space time.

and we cant detect it because we dont recognise virtual particles or any virtual elements (although required) as being 'real'.

 

[Uriel]

Why doesn't the moon crash to the earth or the earth to the sun? Also explain the other examples in my first post. Seems there is some loopholes in gravity. For the most part the people with the anti-gravity sites are dumbasses but they have some good examples.

Becuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuzz, there are glitches in the Matrix.

Sheesh :rolling:

 

[Bait]

Its whatever the instrument you use to measure it reads it as, thats the only reason the duality exist's, photons are neither a wave or a particle they are both in instrumental terms... if you measure it both ways in the same instance it reads as both, suggesting its true nature is neither wave or particle.. but something else outside of instrumentation.

But of course gravity exist's, the planets orbit and velocity keeps them within a balanced threshold at their distance from the sun.. alot like centripetal force of a conker swung round on a string.

Although what gravity is, is the real question.. and so far as we understand its the side effect of the presence of matter in space time. Even people have their own gravitational field, but its so small in scale, you dont notice it.

Centripital force is a fictious force. The only force acting on the "conker" (whatever the hell that is) is the tension force. And gravitational, too I suppose.
And about light.... what do you mean when you say "photonsare neither waves nor particles"?

Anyways, according to Mr. Einstein and our good friends at Wikipedia:

In a revolutionary move, his theory of general relativity (1915) stated that the presence of mass, energy, and momentum causes spacetime to become curved. Because of this curvature, the paths that objects in inertial motion follow can "deviate" or change direction over time. This deviation appears to us as an acceleration towards massive objects, which Newton characterized as being gravity.

We should start a thread on the ToE. I think it would be interesting.

 

[Glirk Dient]

Hmm yeah I feel like an idiot now. Stupid religious people that says god must exist because there is no way to prove gravity got me going and reading a few sites had me second guessing stuff at 3 in the morning. This is the last time I try to debate/prove things that late...

I also just realized the whole a star pulling another star of the same size thing is crap because they both pull on eachother not just one on the other.

This site is also pretty funny. They claim gravity cannot exist because there is no mention of it in the bible. Haha. They also have plenty of other stuff in there that is also funny.

http://www.bringyou.to/apologetics/p67.htm

 

[xcellerate]

I stopped reading about right here:

"then how can anyone explain a high tide on the opposite side of the earth at the same time?"

....he's a moron.

 

[Glirk Dient]

Finally, the mere name “Universal Theory of Gravity” or “Theory of Universal Gravity” (the secularists like to use confusing language) has a distinctly socialist ring to it. The core idea of “to each according to his weight, from each according to his mass” is communist.

OMG GRAVITY IS COMMUNIST!!!!!!!

 

[kirovman]

Of course the moon orbits the sun. Locally however, it orbits the Earth. Take a step back, and you'll see it orbits the sun.

Every massive body interacts with every other massive body, via the force of gravity.

 

[Glirk Dient]

Of course the moon orbits the sun. Locally however, it orbits the Earth. Take a step back, and you'll see it orbits the sun.

Every massive body interacts with every other massive body, via the force of gravity.

Yep I understand it all...I was too tired last night to figure it out. Wasn't the only dumb thing I did last night haha.

 

[jondy]

lol@ Glirk coming back and reading this lot

 

[Dekstar]

I must have skipped all of physics, because I'm still confused about the tide thing..

 

[Glirk Dient]

I must have skipped all of physics, because I'm still confused about the tide thing..

The gravitational pull from the moon will make the wate rise/sink. I don't know a lot about orbital physics if you havent figured that out by now...but its from the gravitational pull from the moon when it orbits the earth.

 

[xcellerate]

basically if two high tides didn't occur, we would wobble off into space. It's a balance thing, opposing high tides keep us in check.

 

[dream431ca]

OMG!!!! What stupid people!! There is no basis for their arguments...my favorite is, "if there is gravity, then why don't airplanes fall out of the sky??

Ok...I'm just going to shun those people...obviously they are religious and not scientific people. I'm just going to read that article again and laugh histerically.

Just throw "Dark matter" in there too

I hate that subject on dark matter...completely useless IMO. Dark matter is something in space that either a) Is not close enough to a light source so it cannot be seen (example, a rouge planet, an asteroid, dust,) or b) Something that obsorbs light (example, Black hole)