Guantanamo Bay: "I'm loving it!"

[CptStern]

there probably isnt a person alive who hasnt seen the photos of prisoner torture at Guantanamo Bay but what most people dont know is that for the jailers it's like a mini america complete with fast food restuarants and gift shops (I shit you not) :


it includes:

"....a Starbucks, a McDonald's and an outdoor movie theatre where you can take coolers, lawn chairs and the feature film now playing is Jarhead. At a gift shop, visitors can buy baseball caps, shot glasses and T-shirts — including one with the words "Behavior Modification Instructor" emblazoned on the front. "

in contrast the prisoners live in these conditions:

"Most of the men who are detainees at Camp Delta are held one to a cell. And they remain in the cell but for two or three 15-20-minute periods a week when they are let out individually for showers and some simple exercise in a little... just a little area, and they usually kick around a soccer ball. Each cell is on three sides sort of chain-link fence, so an inmate can see what's in front of him and what's to the sides.


...One in five inmates is on some antidepressant. And 21 of them have attempted suicide 32 times-- some repeat guys"



the one saving grace:

McDonald's "Happy Meals" were offered to detainees if they co-operated in interrogations."


sources:

The other side of 'Gitmo'

Gitmo: I'm loving it"

 

[Raziaar]

Burger King would be a better choice.

 

[CptStern]

I'm sure there's one somewhere in town ..there's a KFC so I dont see why not


oh and read the articles raziaar

 

[Glirk Dient]

I don't see whats wrong...in many ways those prisoners are in much better conditions than prisons here in the states. They have a hell of a lot better of a view than prisons here as well. Some prisoners here never even get that 15-20 minutes nor are they capable of commiting suicide if they wanted to.

 

[CptStern]

I don't see whats wrong...in many ways those prisoners are in much better conditions than prisons here in the states. They have a hell of a lot better of a view than prisons here as well.

ya great view


I think you guys are missing the point of this thread. You dont think it's odd that corporations operate in a camp notorious for human rights abuses?

 

[Glirk Dient]

ya great view


I think you guys are missing the point of this thread. You dont think it's odd that corporations operate in a camp notorious for human rights abuses?

They are only there because they are popular and are what the people there need. It is the people there that were the cause of the human rights issues...not the companies. Companies are there to serve the people that work there. I don't see any reason to believe otherwise other than conspiracy theories.

Each cell is on three sides sort of chain-link fence, so an inmate can see what's in front of him and what's to the sides.

Better than concrete on 3 sides!

 

[CptStern]

They are only there because they are popular and are what the people there need. It is the people there that were the cause of the human rights issues...not the companies. Companies are there to serve the people that work there. I don't see any reason to believe otherwise other than conspiracy theories.

they're making profit from a place that tortures people and in some cases may have even murdered some of them. Maybe it's because you're too young and dont understand how makets work and that corporations have a responsibility to their shareholders. They're very interested in this sort of thing because it goes against ethical guidelines in trading

Better than concrete on 3 sides!

and you know this first hand? stop being an apologist and see it for what it is: profit from torture, the fiscal bottom line over ethics.

 

[Glirk Dient]

they're making profit from a place that tortures people and in some cases may have even murdered some of them. Maybe it's because you're too young and dont understand how makets work and that corporations have a responsibility to their shareholders. They're very interested in this sort of thing because it goes against ethical guidelines in trading





and you know this first hand? stop being an apologist and see it for what it is: profit from torture, the fiscal bottom line over ethics.

Profit from torture? So all that place does is torture now? The companies like money. There are hungry service men down there and they see potential in that. It is none of their business what they may be doing under their noses. Sure there have been a few incidents but that is no reason for them to throw money away and pull out just because a few people in the states don't like it. If they were supporting an abortion clinic it would make more sense as to the evils of it but when there are a few incidents it doesn't mean they should pull out. They were not the cause of it nor are they supporting what is going on. All they are doing is providing food for the people there, not supporting torture.

 

[Ikerous]

As far as I know they aren't torturing in Guantanamo anymore and this is simply a really good thing for the troops.

 

[Sprite]

First of all Glint, in future please use the BBC for your news. I don't know what shit you are watching but believe me, Gitmo is a hell of a lot worse than state prisons.

Secondly, are you seriously supporting corporations who make money from places deemed illegal (not to mention immoral) by international law? Bloody hell, someone likes his capitalism

 

[CptStern]

Profit from torture? So all that place does is torture now? The companies like money. There are hungry service men down there and they see potential in that. It is none of their business what they may be doing under their noses. Sure there have been a few incidents but that is no reason for them to throw money away and pull out just because a few people in the states don't like it. If they were supporting an abortion clinic it would make more sense as to the evils of it but when there are a few incidents it doesn't mean they should pull out. They were not the cause of it nor are they supporting what is going on. All they are doing is providing food for the people there, not supporting torture.

and that pretty much invalidates any argument you could possibly ever have in terms of politics ..comparing the right to choose with torture :frown:

 

[Ikerous]

and that pretty much invalidates any argument you could possibly ever have in terms of politics ..comparing the right to choose with torture :frown:

So basically you don't have an argument and that's all you could come up with? XD
(Becaue he clearly wasn't comparing the two in any way that isn't completely valid...)

 

[CptStern]

oh I have plenty ..but no time be back later

edit: oh and I'm quoting you as well when I get back :E

 

[Raziaar]

First of all Glint, in future please use the BBC for your news. I don't know what shit you are watching but believe me, Gitmo is a hell of a lot worse than state prisons.

Secondly, are you seriously supporting corporations who make money from places deemed illegal (not to mention immoral) by international law? Bloody hell, someone likes his capitalism

BBC is not as unbiased as you might think. I've been reading quite a bit of stuff lately about the bias of the BBC, towards european issues... bias against israel, etc.

Do a search on it.


http://www.bbcwatch.co.uk/index.html

 

[Crushenator 500]

T-shirts — including one with the words "Behavior Modification Instructor" emblazoned on the front.

Oh god i want one.... I've already got a "los angeles county coroner" shirt from the gift shop there when I went :E

 

[Glirk Dient]

and that pretty much invalidates any argument you could possibly ever have in terms of politics ..

I am glad you caught on to my example. It is just as absurd to say McDonalds shouldn't be feeding people who work at abortion clinics as it is to say they shouldn't be feeding people who work at gitmo. Your statements are just as absurd...so don't go invalidating things just because they are absurd because you may be at fault as well for doing that. I personally don't think they shouldn't serve people at abortion clinic mcdonalds...thats just silly.

comparing the right to choose with torture :frown:

After all...we are comparing murder with prison for criminals :frown:

First of all Glint, in future please use the BBC for your news. I don't know what shit you are watching but believe me, Gitmo is a hell of a lot worse than state prisons.

Secondly, are you seriously supporting corporations who make money from places deemed illegal (not to mention immoral) by international law? Bloody hell, someone likes his capitalism

Glint? I do not get the BBC here in Minnesota(at least with basic cable). Also...I don't recal that I ever said I support those companies that operate there, I simply said I do not see what is wrong with it. It is a base built on land rented from Cuba and prisoners of war(theoretically) are held there. It is debatable but don't go rant off about that since it is not the discussion...we are talking about whether or not it is morally correct to serve working folk mcdonalds at an international prison.

 

[Sulkdodds]

Well, quite a few people in there haven't been charged with anything. Hello, human rights abuses! Hell, sometimes the evidence that they did anything at all is dubious or even non-existent. :|

WHO FUCKING CARES WHETHER IT'S 'NO WORSE THAN A STATE PRISON'?

That statement is bolded in the assumption that you're actually defending the place (which is the overall impression you're giving). If not, LOL SORRY

 

[RakuraiTenjin]

Um, it's just a cafeteria/feeding thing for people working there. I thought you were going to say McDonalds has people trying to get information from terrorists or something weird. I don't see what the problem is here. There needs to be food there.

 

[CptStern]

I am glad you caught on to my example. It is just as absurd to say McDonalds shouldn't be feeding people who work at abortion clinics as it is to say they shouldn't be feeding people who work at gitmo. Your statements are just as absurd...so don't go invalidating things just because they are absurd because you may be at fault as well for doing that. I personally don't think they shouldn't serve people at abortion clinic mcdonalds...thats just silly




After all...we are comparing murder with prison for criminals :frown:

federal law, medical doctors, scientists etc all agree it is not murder ...such a simple POV ..but of course you've never been faced with that issue so it's easy to sit there and judge what other people should do ..THEIR choice NOT yours

Glint? I do not get the BBC here in Minnesota(at least with basic cable). Also...I don't recal that I ever said I support those companies that operate there, I simply said I do not see what is wrong with it. It is a base built on land rented from Cuba and prisoners of war(theoretically) are held there. It is debatable but don't go rant off about that since it is not the discussion...we are talking about whether or not it is morally correct to serve working folk mcdonalds at an international prison.

so if Mc Donalds had opened up a store in abu gharib when saddam was using it torture and kill political prisoners ...that's ok? or is it only ok when they work for the americans?


ikerous: I have no faith that they've stopped torture ..more and more secret torture prisons, fbi testimony, eyewitness reports keep showing up proving torture is systematic across american pow camps

 

[Sprite]

I thought you were going to say McDonalds has people trying to get information from terrorists or something weird.

McDonald's "Happy Meals" were offered to detainees if they co-operated in interrogations."

 

[Lemonking]

BBC is not as unbiased as you might think. I've been reading quite a bit of stuff lately about the bias of the BBC, towards european issues... bias against israel, etc.

Do a search on it.


http://www.bbcwatch.co.uk/index.html

LOL-maybe its because Israel shot a BBC reporter and when BBC asked
"WTF was that about?" they got kicked out......

 

[Ikerous]

ikerous: I have no faith that they've stopped torture ..more and more secret torture prisons, fbi testimony, eyewitness reports keep showing up proving torture is systematic across american pow camps

I have no doubt that the American government still tortures people. I just don't think they do it at Guantanamo any more (It's become far too much of a public figure). And as far as i know, theres no evidence to suggest there is. Hence why it's perfectly fine for mcdonalds to be there.

 

[el Chi]

They have a hell of a lot better of a view than prisons here as well.

Not a bad point, actually. If ever anything made up for illegal incarceration, sanctioned torture and Lord knows what else, it's a good view.
On the down side, they may not be able to see it with a bag over their head.
Never mind, eh?

 

[CptStern]

I have no doubt that the American government still tortures people. I just don't think they do it at Guantanamo any more (It's become far too much of a public figure). And as far as i know, theres no evidence to suggest there is. Hence why it's perfectly fine for mcdonalds to be there.

while bush may have invited media groups and human rights advocates to visit the site there's no real point in going since they cant see or interview the prisoners.

Mc Donalds has probably been there since it opened and operated during allegations of torture. They're profiting from the misery of others ..it's quite dispicable if you ask me

 

[RakuraiTenjin]

It's the same as saying if you help us out you'll get an extra serving of pudding at lunch. McDonalds is tasty so it's good to use, I would if I had the option and was interrogating.

That's not the same as McDonalds Corp. demanding detainee information. It's the US Army using delicious food produced by it to help interrogate.

 

[CptStern]

It's the same as saying if you help us out you'll get an extra serving of pudding at lunch. McDonalds is tasty so it's good to use, I would if I had the option and was interrogating.

you had me till you said Mc Donalds is "tasty" dear god man you cant be serious? oh and dont you think most of these people would have the opposite reaction to being given food that is the very symbol of what they're fighting against in the first place? ..if anything I'd think it was more of an insult than anything else

That's not the same as McDonalds Corp. demanding detainee information. It's the US Army using delicious food produced by it to help interrogate.

:O "...delicious food product" ...is there a different Mc Donalds in the US than the rest of the world cuz their food tastes like regurgitated cardboard and probably has as much nutritious value

 

[RakuraiTenjin]

you had me till you said Mc Donalds is "tasty" dear god man you cant be serious? oh and dont you think most of these people would have the opposite reaction to being given food that is the very symbol of what they're fighting against in the first place? ..if anything I'd think it was more of an insult than anything else

There are Haalal McDonalds all over the Arab world. Unless that the meat wasn't haalal I can't see why they wouldn't be wanting a fresh cheeseburger and fries.

:O "...delicious food product" ...is there a different Mc Donalds in the US than the rest of the world cuz their food tastes like regurgitated cardboard and probably has as much nutritious value

There are two McDonalds in this town, one sucks ass, and one makes everything that looks like the pictures of the food in the menu. I want some right now. Mmm.

 

[bigburpco]

Burger King would be a better choice.

MacDonalds is just retarded. They tried changing the typical hamburger bread to some sticky rice, and horrible fillings inside. I don't about you, but it is here in where I live.

 

[RakuraiTenjin]

MacDonalds is just retarded. They tried changing the typical hamburger bread to some sticky rice, and horrible fillings inside. I don't about you, but it is here in where I live.

What the hell? Where do you live? Haha.

 

[Glirk Dient]

MacDonalds is just retarded. They tried changing the typical hamburger bread to some sticky rice, and horrible fillings inside. I don't about you, but it is here in where I live.

granted as stern said their food is shit but I have never seen that.

I have been to lots and lots of mcdonalds and it is all crap. I have even been to the worlds largest mcdonalds...still crap.

However...do the people mcdonalds serve make mcdonalds evil? No...if a murderer walks in and buys a meal is mcdonalds now evil? No...

Not to mention this is your opinion of gitmo and then your transfering that opinion to mcdonalds...seems a bit harsh and unjust IMO...

Also...I don't see how mcdonalds supports anything, even if they set up in a terrorist area. What do the terrorists do? Exchange money for food. It isn't like mcdonalds is pouring money to terrorists. It would give the citizens there a job(a shitty one but a job) and take more money out of that area if anything and not into terrorists hands.

 

[Raziaar]

Is the big deal, the fact that they have a fast food restraunt there to feed the employees Stern? Especially one with such a high profile as Mcdonalds? Would it make that much more difference if they had a cafeteria serving equally crap food, or even a low profile restraunt?

 

[Glirk Dient]

Is the big deal, the fact that they have a fast food restraunt there to feed the employees Stern? Especially one with such a high profile as Mcdonalds? Would it make that much more difference if they had a cafeteria serving equally crap food, or even a low profile restraunt?

Thats what I dont get. Then I think I brought in other facts to support that basic idea and people started to argue those(gitmo in general). Heck I started off thinking stern was bashing gitmo since the whole restaurant thing seemed pointless and I see sulkdodds still responded to that haha. Oh well.

 

[Sulkdodds]

I think his point was it seems a little crass to have a McDonald's in a camp somewhat notorious for human rights abuses (which doesn't just mean torture.

 

[RakuraiTenjin]

I think his point was it seems a little crass to have a McDonald's in a camp somewhat notorious for human rights abuses (which doesn't just mean torture.

And then you have to realize that that's a political view that not everyone agrees with, and isn't a fact, it's an allegation.

Either way, if it bugs someone enough or goes against their view on it enough, that person can just not buy McDonalds anymore. It's not going to make much of a difference.

 

[clarky003]

lol

Thats disgusting, I cant believe some people feel the need to try and justify it or say its okay.

Cpt Stern you are my hero, I vote you for president of the world.

 

[Sulkdodds]

Like I said, 'somewhat notorious'. Regardless of what they do there, and even if you don't think there's anything wrong with holding people for years without a charge |) it's still an odd move, both from a 'they should refuse to set up shop there because it may/may not be a horrible evil place/whatever' and 'wow, that's odd. Won't that get bad PR'? standpoint.

 

[RakuraiTenjin]

lol

Thats disgusting, I cant believe some people feel the need to try and justify it or say its okay.

I actually laughed out loud. It's just there so soldiers can eat. Should they be shafted because you don't like the place?

Like I said, 'somewhat notorious'. Regardless of what they do there, and even if you don't think there's anything wrong with holding people for years without a charge |) it's still an odd move, both from a 'they should refuse to set up shop there because it may/may not be a horrible evil place/whatever' and 'wow, that's odd. Won't that get bad PR'? standpoint.

McDonalds can pretty much suck up any bad PR. This is a drop compared to the ocean that was Super Size Me, Critiques of the ads, people hating the food itself, etc etc etc.

 

[clarky003]

It's just there so soldiers can eat.

lol lol, thats not what i was refering too, eaten there recently..?

I was refering to Stern's post where they reward them with a mac donalds for good behaviour, which subsequently costs money which goes into profit, relating their buisness with the subject of these bodged mistreatment's that have happened.

And its my opinion people should possibly get off the lazy pill and make their own cooked food or a packed lunch, the CEO's of Mcdonalds and co can go and die on their birthday.

 

[Sprite]

McDonalds are making money out of an illegal camp which has (and probably still does) tortured innocent people, breaking many international human rights laws.

Now which bit of that didn't you understand? I find it pretty sick if you believe this is fine.

And no-one seems to have answered Stern's excellent argument:

"If Mc Donalds had opened up a store in Abu Gharib when Saddam was using it torture and kill political prisoners ...that's ok? Or is it only ok when they work for the Americans?"

 

[RakuraiTenjin]

McDonalds are making money out of an illegal camp which has (and probably still does) tortured innocent people, breaking many international human rights laws.

Now which bit of that didn't you understand? I find it pretty sick if you believe this is fine.

And no-one seems to have answered Stern's excellent argument:

"If Mc Donalds had opened up a store in Abu Gharib when Saddam was using it torture and kill political prisoners ...that's ok? Or is it only ok when they work for the Americans?"

I suggest you read the first article stern posted then.


Ask about allegations that detainees have been tortured during interrogations and army Maj. Jeffrey Weir responds: "There is no torture here. We just don't do that. It doesn't happen."

Press further and ask why accounts of mistreatment the detainees tell their defence lawyers are similar, Weir snaps: "Consider your source."

Allegations that hunger-striking detainees are force-fed also receive straightforward answers: The mission is to keep detainees alive, so if they have to be restrained while feeding tubes are inserted up their noses, the soldiers are only doing their job. Currently 43 detainees are on hunger strikes.

What's especially irksome to the senior command is that the Guantanamo Bay imagined by most is not the one that now exists.

The most common images of the base were taken four years ago when the first detainees were pictured kneeling, shackled and blinded by blacked-out goggles. In a photo from 2002, Camp X-Ray, a temporary facility, resembled outdoor kennels, where detainees were only given a bucket for water and another bucket to use as a toilet. Today it is overgrown with weeds and its only inmates are a family of possum-like banana rats.

X-Ray was shut down after four months and most of the 500 detainees are now housed at Camp Delta. Weir, a no-nonsense soldier who smiles little, has a booming voice and answers some questions with a "negative," guides visiting journalists through the abandoned camp, encouraging them to pick up the discarded locks that lie below the cells; a souvenir of what is no more.

Later, a tour of Camp Delta reveals an airy version of standard American prisons, with one medium-security area where detainees wear white jumpsuits as opposed to orange, and live 10 to a room. In the cells, Qur'ans hang in surgical masks to keep them off the floor and a yellow pylon marked "P" is placed in the main corridor to signal to guards to keep quiet while the detainees answer the five daily calls to prayer.


`As long as we have detainees here there has to be an effort ... to see that they're treated humanely.'

Lt.-Col. Jeremy Martin,

U.S. military spokesman