Guantanamo Bay: "I'm loving it!"

[Sprite]

Wow, what a failure of an argument.

army Maj. Jeffrey Weir responds: "There is no torture here. We just don't do that. It doesn't happen."

`As long as we have detainees here there has to be an effort ... to see that they're treated humanely.'
Lt.-Col. Jeremy Martin,
U.S. military spokesman

Next time, please post un-biased quotes.

 

[RakuraiTenjin]

The same goes for you regarding the allegations of torture. Detainees. Who's word holds more weight with me? I'm going to have to say the US Servicemen than those captured.

Major Weir: "Consider your source."

 

[Sprite]

Those US Servicemen being the same who work in Abu Ghraib? In fact, Janis Karpinski said she was told from the top to treat detainees like dogs "as it is done in Guantanamo [Camp Delta]".

Oh and lets not forget the government and military enquiries:

On June 3, 2005, a U.S. military report supported allegations that US soldiers had abused the Qur'an. The report found that a soldier deliberately kicked a Qur'an; an interrogator stepped on a Qur'an; a guard's urine came through an air vent, splashing a detainee and his Qur'an; water balloons thrown by prison guards caused a number of Qur'ans to get wet; and a two-word obscenity was written in English on the inside cover of a Qur'an.

On July 12, 2005 members of a military panel told the committee that they proposed disciplining prison commander Army Major General Geoffrey Miller over the interrogation of Mohamed al-Kahtani who was forced to wear a bra, dance with another man and threatened with dogs. The recommendation was overruled by General Bantz J. Craddock, commander of U.S. Southern Command, who refered the matter to the Army's inspector general.

The book, Inside the Wire by Erik Saar and Viveca Novak also claims to reveal the abuse of prisoners. Saar, a former US soldier, repeats allegations that female interrogators taunted prisoners sexually and in one instance wiped what seemed to be menstrual blood on the detainee. In reality it was just a red marker but the prisoner was unable to clean himself and hence unable to pray. Other instances of beatings by the IRF (initial reaction force) have been reported in this book and it supports the claim that the Qur'an was flushed down the toilet. An FBI email from December 2003, six months after Saar had left, said that the Defense Department interrogators at Guantánamo had impersonated FBI agents while using "torture techniques" on a detainee.

Taken from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gitmo#Legal_status

EDIT: Forgot to post that "The accounts of the British prisoners have been reiterated by two former French prisoners, a former Swedish prisoner, and a former Australian prisoner."

 

[RakuraiTenjin]

Those US Servicemen being the same who work in Abu Ghraib? In fact, Janis Karpinski said she was told from the top to treat detainees like dogs "as it is done in Guantanamo [Camp Delta]".

Major General Miller denies that he ever made the remarks.

Janis Karpinski isn't the most trustworthy person. Among the reasons for her demotion were failure to report charges of stealing cosmetics from a base store.

QUOTE=Sprite]Oh and lets not forget the government and military enquiries:

On June 3, 2005, a U.S. military report supported allegations that US soldiers had abused the Qur'an. The report found that a soldier deliberately kicked a Qur'an; an interrogator stepped on a Qur'an; a guard's urine came through an air vent, splashing a detainee and his Qur'an; water balloons thrown by prison guards caused a number of Qur'ans to get wet; and a two-word obscenity was written in English on the inside cover of a Qur'an. [/QUOTE]
Getting a book wet is not torture.

On July 12, 2005 members of a military panel told the committee that they proposed disciplining prison commander Army Major General Geoffrey Miller over the interrogation of Mohamed al-Kahtani who was forced to wear a bra, dance with another man and threatened with dogs. The recommendation was overruled by General Bantz J. Craddock, commander of U.S. Southern Command, who refered the matter to the Army's inspector general.

Insensitive but if you call that torture, it's making a mockery of real torture. It also shows that it is not permitted, as it was the subject of an internal investigation for just that.

The book, Inside the Wire by Erik Saar and Viveca Novak also claims to reveal the abuse of prisoners. Saar, a former US soldier, repeats allegations that female interrogators taunted prisoners sexually and in one instance wiped what seemed to be menstrual blood on the detainee. In reality it was just a red marker but the prisoner was unable to clean himself and hence unable to pray. Other instances of beatings by the IRF (initial reaction force) have been reported in this book and it supports the claim that the Qur'an was flushed down the toilet. An FBI email from December 2003, six months after Saar had left, said that the Defense Department interrogators at Guantánamo had impersonated FBI agents while using "torture techniques" on a detainee.

There probably have been times where things weren't handles as well as they could have been. Smearing marker on someone isn't torture either. It's stupid, but again, it's not the same as cutting off genitals or stretching someone on a rack. Whether or not the FBI email referred to tactics that are not torture but would be too far for the FBI's jurisdiction (stress positions, psychological breaking down, etc) has to be determined. We don't know because it was censored. I have faith that there is no torturing going on at Guantanomo bay.

EDIT: Forgot to post that "The accounts of the British prisoners have been reiterated by two former French prisoners, a former Swedish prisoner, and a former Australian prisoner."

I don't trust them

 

[SAJ]

army Maj. Jeffrey Weir responds: "There is no torture here. We just don't do that. It doesn't happen."

He then added, " We dont call it torture anymore, its now known as freedom yoga"

 

[CptStern]

Major General Miller denies that he ever made the remarks.

Janis Karpinski isn't the most trustworthy person. Among the reasons for her demotion were failure to report charges of stealing cosmetics from a base store.

QUOTE=Sprite]Oh and lets not forget the government and military enquiries:

On June 3, 2005, a U.S. military report supported allegations that US soldiers had abused the Qur'an. The report found that a soldier deliberately kicked a Qur'an; an interrogator stepped on a Qur'an; a guard's urine came through an air vent, splashing a detainee and his Qur'an; water balloons thrown by prison guards caused a number of Qur'ans to get wet; and a two-word obscenity was written in English on the inside cover of a Qur'an.
Getting a book wet is not torture.


Insensitive but if you call that torture, it's making a mockery of real torture. It also shows that it is not permitted, as it was the subject of an internal investigation for just that.


There probably have been times where things weren't handles as well as they could have been. Smearing marker on someone isn't torture either. It's stupid, but again, it's not the same as cutting off genitals or stretching someone on a rack. Whether or not the FBI email referred to tactics that are not torture but would be too far for the FBI's jurisdiction (stress positions, psychological breaking down, etc) has to be determined. We don't know because it was censored. I have faith that there is no torturing going on at Guantanomo bay.


I don't trust them

after all this, and after the mountain of evidence you STILL dont believe your country is torturing suspects?

Summary of FBI interview of detainee at Guantanamo Bay :

"Records detainee stating that "he had been beaten unconscious approximately three or four weeks ago when he was still at Camp X-ray. According to REDACTED an unknown number of guards entered his cell, unprovoked, and started spitting and cursing at him. The guards called him a "son of a bitch" and a "bastard," then told him he was crazy. REDACTED rolled onto his stomach to protect himself . . . A soldier . . . jumped on his back and started beating him in the face. REDACTED then choked him until he passed out. REDACTED stated that REDACTED was beating him because REDACTED was a Muslim and REDACTED is a Christian. REDACTED indicated there was a female guard named REDACTED who was also beating him and grabbed his head and beat it into the cell floor."


Summary of FBI interview of detainee at Guantanamo Bay :

"[w]hen REDACTED was turned over to US authorities, he was beaten by the US military forces. REDACTED was turned over to US authorities REDACTED. He was taken by helicopter to an unknown location where he was beaten. While his eyes were covered, he was kicked in the stomach and back by several individuals. He noted American English accents. After being moved to an unknown facility in Bagram, his head was placed against the cement floor and his head was kicked. As a result of other beatings in Bagram, REDACTED received a broken shoulder. During one evening REDACTED was left outside of the facility where he was being held. The ground was wet and it was snowing. He was wearing only pants and a ragged shirt. As a result of being out in the cold, he became unconscious. . . . . When he was moved to Kandahar, he was not beaten as frequently and severely. Periodically, REDACTED was kicked and pushed. He was dragged three times to interrogations. On one occasion during prayer time, a soldier placed his foot on REDACTED head and sat on his head. REDACTED stated that the soldiers wore tan and brown camouflage uniforms, with US flags on their arms."


Notes that detainee agreed to talk about four subjects concerning camp delta: possible rapes of detainees, detainees being searched in the groin area and being touched sexually by male guards in interview rooms, possible suicide of a Saudi detainee in isolation and punishment in the form of shaving detainees' hair and beards.


"REDACTED . . . Gave an example of the behavior of Americans. A detainee returned from an interrogation with blood on his face and head. He said a female interrogator, after not getting cooperation from him, called four guards into the room. While the guards held him, she removed her blouse, embraced the detainee from behind and put her hand on his genitals. The interrogator was on her menstrual period and she wiped blood from her body on his face and head."


just the sort of thing that McDonals wants to be associated with, "I'm loving it!"



there's tons more


http://www.aclu.org/torturefoia/released/052505/

 

[Sulkdodds]

Even without torture, isn't it...I don't know, wrong to hold people on little or no evidence with no charge whatsoever for periods lasting sometimes several years?

edit: holy shit, what is it with this thread and ****ing up quotes?

 

[Sainku]

This is mcdonalds, a food company. They make money. That is their purpose. Putting a store in a place where they can make a buck is what they do. They don't support torture because of this. It's not evil, it's not good and they really don't give a crap what you think about them because they know half of the world is going to eat their shit anyway.


This is like saying, hey I heard brawny supplies them with paper towels. They must like when we torture people. It is a stupid thread and makes it painfully obvious why this place is being closed.

 

[Raziaar]

"If Mc Donalds had opened up a store in Abu Gharib when Saddam was using it torture and kill political prisoners ...that's ok? Or is it only ok when they work for the Americans?"

I wouldn't care. It's fine by me. Mcdonalds is a food chain. If they were somehow in cohoots with illegal stuff in either accounts, or you know... doing stuff like chopping up human meat and making fatty patties out of them, i'd have a problem with it. But if its used as a means for food... who gives a ****?

That's just blowing things way out of proportion. Who cares about the 'what if' of saddam using a mcdonalds for food in a prison. It's no more offensive to me than a mcdonalds or taco bell etc setting up shop in a school to sell the food to the children.

 

[el Chi]

Corporate ethics or principles? Naaaah.

 

[CptStern]

I wouldn't care. It's fine by me. Mcdonalds is a food chain. If they were somehow in cohoots with illegal stuff in either accounts, or you know... doing stuff like chopping up human meat and making fatty patties out of them, i'd have a problem with it. But if its used as a means for food... who gives a ****?

That's just blowing things way out of proportion. Who cares about the 'what if' of saddam using a mcdonalds for food in a prison. It's no more offensive to me than a mcdonalds or taco bell etc setting up shop in a school to sell the food to the children.

making kids fat isnt in the same ballpark as breaking international law and abusing human rights ...I'm sure the share holders would be very interested to know that the money they've invested in is entangled with torture and in some cases murder. This news is the sort of thing that makes corporate stock take a nose dive

 

[Raziaar]

making kids fat isnt in the same ballpark as breaking international law and abusing human rights ...I'm sure the share holders would be very interested to know that the money they've invested in is entangled with torture and in some cases murder. This news is the sort of things that make corporate stocks take a nose dive

It's mcdonalds stock. Who gives a shit. Big companies like that are a stain.

 

[CptStern]

who gives a shit? apathy is what led to this mess in the first place ..if more people gave a shit a lot of these things could be preventable

 

[kaf11]

I cant believe how terrible this whole situation is sometimes.