Half-life 2 and true black darkness to hide in

[poseyjmac]

:thumbs:

you know how splinter cell has true black darkness, so that even if you turn up the gamma, it wont help to see if a spy is hidden in the darkness so then you might as well have it look normal. im HOPING the source engine has this. ive been looking for any info on this, and can't seem to find any so i emailed someone at valve today.

i think its lame when people turn up their gamma because of atmospheric darkness that is supposed to look a certain way. me and other mapmakers i know plan on making some crap-in-your-pants scary hl2 MP/SP maps to take advantage of the lighting system, but this will be ruined if one can simply turn up his/her gamma. anyone know any more info about this? hopefully ill get a reply back in email as well. i feel its very important! sure doom3 will be scary, but what ive seen from source engine, i think source engine can be just as atmospheric.

 

[Xtasy00]

no.

(........)

 

[Rupertvdb]

they have plenty of lighting tricks so maybe this'll be one of them....if not then let the bastard fiddle with the gamma, their loss.

 

[Neutrino]

No I don't believe this will be possible with HL2. Doom 3 has it however.

 

[redundant]

if you want to make a scary mod which uses lighting as it's main source of....scaryness... then you should mod using doom 3. it was designed to be used that way.

 

[Beserker]

I turn up gamma when needed, just to SEE things. Yeahh..game has to have it's own gamma options.

 

[Dougy]

Ive got my screen at full brightness.

Makes tropical maps look realy cool and night maps look real (out in the open there is no such thing as pitch black.

 

[Kirkburn]

Yeah, tis true about the night maps ... cept when there's no moon of course in which case it might as well be pitch black
Must look a bit strange on indoor maps, tho Dougy??

 

[Andy]

there would be lots of oportunities to use this kind of technique but you don't neccessarily need true black, just make the map consistent enough so that people don't turn up thier gamma and if they do, thier loss.

I remember they hunger had a good bit in the insane asylam where 1 of those huge zombies came thundering out of the darkness.

 

[Mr. Redundant]

hehe Im sure its just "a design decision, not technical limitation" then again HDR (although not in full use) does the opposite of true black really...

if you want to make a scary mod which uses lighting as it's main source of....scaryness... then you should mod using doom 3. it was designed to be used that way.

err
welcome to the forums... although you having the same name as me is going to be a little confusing.
doh

 

[figge]

I think you can fake total pitch black in hl1...

1 make black room
2. Make no lights in that room

don't know if it works though

 

[poseyjmac]

well when i said true black i meant like if you have a gradient in a dark corner, like a light is shining in a room, but in the far far corner its very dark, dark enough so that if someone turns up their gamma they can't a hidden person like this:

http://img27.photobucket.com/albums/v81/poseyjmac/darkshadow.jpg

splinter cell uses a modified unreal engine, and source has more sophisticated lighting, so you would think it would be possible. pandora tomorrow has awesome MP, partly because of all the dark areas that you can hide in and mercenaries just pass 3 feet in front of you and dont see you. many heart-pounding, nerve-racking moments.

 

[Mr. Redundant]

that does sound awesome, but who knows... at this point I just want the damn game.

Im pretty sure Doom3 has the effect your describing (and its cool, that way people who play with their brightness settings as they should be.. rather than those who crank their brightness up to max, dont have a disadvantage)

 

[Letters]

Ahaha, Mr. Redundant has lost his individuality!

I don't like true black darkness... it's frustrating... but it is in Pandora Tomorrow and it's scary!

 

[Mr. Redundant]

Ahaha, Mr. Redundant has lost his individuality!

I don't like true black darkness... it's frustrating... but it is in Pandora Tomorrow and it's scary!

excuse me sir?
I took offence to that!




since when was I an individual?!?
bandwagon for me holmes.

 

[Z|insane]

Ahaha, Mr. Redundant has lost his individuality!

I don't like true black darkness... it's frustrating... but it is in Pandora Tomorrow and it's scary!

Waits for someone to make a Leters account so Letters can lose his individuality...

 

[Wolf]

OT: I liked the way Rockstar handled Manhunt's gamma at the start using two black squares. It was about the only good thing about that game...

 

[Mr. Redundant]

Waits for someone to make a Leters account so Letters can lose his individuality...

hah forgot about that...
or a Mr. letters

and here I thought he was insinuating that I had changed my stance on the "true black" being in HL2....

Mr. Redundant <<<< owned.

yeah it does suck when someone has your name (well at least your name without the Mr.)
I just hope nothing silly happens, like people quoting him thinking its me, or worse, getting the banz0rz for mien minime.

 

[Z|insane]

Na the admins wouldn't do that... would they... *Looks around nervously...*

 

[Cole]

I think the map maker should actually be able to specify areas where its pitch black... They probably could do this with Source. I can obviously see why Doom 3 has it, but since source is a bit more advanced they could probably add it even if it isn't in it right now. Mostly becuase source is flexible and easy to add things in.

 

[Mr. Redundant]

Na the admins wouldn't do that... would they... *Looks around nervously...*

no, because IPs are logged, so that shows he isnt me.
but users like you and I, can get confused.. especially when quoting or trying to remember what someone said.

ex: "Oblivious says "lols lols you all suck, Hl2 sucks and I hate chocolates!!!"
"Mr. Oblivious says "wow, I just had this awesome Chocolate moose, while playing Hl2 I love you all!"

random user says "bah, I thought you said you hate chocolates, and HL2 sucked
?!!?! omfgz0rz... DM!!!"

Admin: "Lolz lightning bolted noob!"

 

[poseyjmac]

imo the ability to have true black shadows is an anti-exploit measure.

in MP, people exploit whatever they can to win, whether it be aimbots, wallhacks etc. i dont see how turning up gamma is any different than this. people do what they can to win regardless of the original developers intent on the rules of the game.

like wolf said, that test with the black squares is there so that you can experience the game how it was meant to be played. turning up gamma has been an accepted exploit in the past, but developers should see this as an exploit and patch it up accordingly.

 

[Mr. Redundant]

imo the ability to have true black shadows is an anti-exploit measure.

in MP, people exploit whatever they can to win, whether it be aimbots, wallhacks etc. i dont see how turning up gamma is any different than this. people do what they can to win regardless of the original developers intent on the rules of the game.

like wolf said, that test with the black squares is there so that you can experience the game how it was meant to be played. turning up gamma has been an accepted exploit in the past, but developers should see this as an exploit and patch it up accordingly.

absolutely true, I doubt however developers will ever do anything about it.. but it is true.

 

[Z|insane]

imo the ability to have true black shadows is an anti-exploit measure.

in MP, people exploit whatever they can to win, whether it be aimbots, wallhacks etc. i dont see how turning up gamma is any different than this. people do what they can to win regardless of the original developers intent on the rules of the game.

like wolf said, that test with the black squares is there so that you can experience the game how it was meant to be played. turning up gamma has been an accepted exploit in the past, but developers should see this as an exploit and patch it up accordingly.

Hey if you set the gamma slider to be smart and when the box reaches a certain brightness it caps the slider... It would also work if they turned up the brightnes on their monitor it would slide the slider down... Not sure how it would direct capture the screen though.

 

[Apos]

Why would people use a gamma boost in the SP game anyway? It ruins the look of everything. From the movies, it's clear that unseen things can creep out of the dark into the light. If someone wants to ruin that effect, let them. I'll be enjoying the game and challenge as is.

 

[Z|insane]

I was more worried for multiplayer.

 

[Mr. Redundant]

Why would people use a gamma boost in the SP game anyway? It ruins the look of everything. From the movies, it's clear that unseen things can creep out of the dark into the light. If someone wants to ruin that effect, let them. I'll be enjoying the game and challenge as is.

we are talking MP here though, SP is a given. and yeah ruining the immersion by cranking gamma all the way up just doesnt do it for me in either case.

 

[poseyjmac]

yeah thats mainly what i was talking about too. imagine all the cool possibilities in MP. like you're going along in a dark mansion, meanwhile someone with a manipulator is waiting in a shadow, then you see a piece of furniture emerge from the darkness flying straight at you.

 

[Kirkburn]

"Aaaah, sofa!!!"

for example

 

[DrEvil]

I feel high brightness and contrast is a lot of strain on the eyes. I have brightness about 40% and contrast about 75%. A super high gamma setting makes me woozy.

 

[poseyjmac]

just got this email concerning this from Rick Ellis. im also putting this in valve info thread.


---

<-----Original Message----->
From: Rick Ellis
Sent: 5/24/2004 12:43:37 PM
To: @desertmail.com
Subject: RE: question about darkness, flashlights in HL2

Yes, darkest = black in our levels.

Rick
Valve




From: asdf asdf [mailtodesertmail.com]
Sent: Sunday, May 23, 2004 5:55 PM
To: Rick Ellis
Subject: question about darkness, flashlights in HL2


I'm a mapmaker and I'm wondering if in HL2 we can make truly dark levels where you will need a flashlight to maneuver around certain areas AND im wondering if the darkness is true black, so that people can't turn up their brightness and see everything? splinter cell: pandora tomorrow does this well. i plan on making some scary levels with hl2 so this is why I'm wondering. thanks for any reply

-Jon

 

[Apos]

Not exactly the clearest answer, no? I'm not sure he quite understood the question or at least stated the answer in a way that demonstrated that he was directly addressing the issue you raised.

 

[poseyjmac]

well im fairly sure he knew. if their darkest parts didn't equal black, then you could raise your brightness and see what was there. if something is black(0,0,0) then no amount of raising gamma can change that. so i think thats why he said darkest parts of levels = black. which means in the darkest corner of a level, it is true black, and therefore you can hide there safely.

i admit it wasn't the clearest answer, but it makes sense to me and im being hopeful

 

[ShinRa]

it makes sense...everyones just pissing on hl2 lately, when the funny thing is everyone forgot valve told us a long time ago there were many many things they were keeping from us. i bet u we dont know half the shit thats in that engine, or what its capable of, and we assume we know all about it. rather interesting.

edit: and think logically for a second - SIX YEARS OF PRODUCTION. do u honestly...honestly think they would give us all the details, show us all the features, and now we all just wait for the game to get released? dont think so. and common sense - they showed us all the features that are already in other games that have been in production for about 4-5 years less time. THINK about it.

 

[poseyjmac]

it probably does make sense. but not in this thread

 

[Ahnteis]

Most people don't want pure black anyway in MP--and I'm guessing several of them are posting in this thread and THINK that they really do.

Hint: If you've ever said "Camper!!" in CS, you do not want pure black.

EDIT: NOTE, I'm not saying that there aren't player who WOULD appreciate pure black--I'm just saying there aren't really that many of them.

 

[poseyjmac]

its really not relevant as to whether how many people want it or not(can't prove it either way anyway). itd just be nice to have a use for the flashlight and a bit of tension and realism for those who want it.

and btw, i wonder if we are on the same page, im not talking about a pitch black level. talking about a level with dark spots that are impossible to reveal with brightness tuning, but only by flashlight