Half Life 2: Any better than Japanese RPGs?

[Foxtrot]

Japanese games usually have a crap story but with fruity art to go with. I hope Half-Life 2 is better.

 

[chimpmunk]

Hellz mutherfukin yah!! Seriously. We all know that Japan and America are the two top dogs. And both have their merits and different contributions. In fact, it really mirrors the movie industry, where USA and Japan put out the biggest and best flicks.

America has a certain sensibility where Japan has a detached creativity. This can make the best Japanese games and movies quite interesting, but the best American games can still be creative while being far more relateable.

So, America all the way. This is one area where i really do believe we are #1.

Best movies are american??? AHHAHA, unless you meant micheal moore.

 

[TriggerHappy]

Japanese RPGs have got the edge in immersion, I would say. But, they also tend to be very linear and their combat systems aren't usually very fun compared to American RPGs.

American RPGs I have played like Baldur's Gate 2, IceWind Dale II, Morrowind, Daggerfall, etc are usually more fun to mess around in, and offer more freedom, but they don't have memorable characters.

Half-Life 2 seems to be going for the best of both worlds! Gabe has emphasized that this is going to be a character-driven story, like a Japanese RPG, but combat and such should still be interesting and fun!

 

[koncept]

i like japanese rpg's... they bring back good memories

[edit]

i'm sure someone will make an rpg for halflife2

 

[SunshineRecorder]

"acting, writing, plotting, characterisation"

I used to love japanese rpgs. Now everything you listed above is crap in a lot of them, especially some final fantasy ones. I'm tired of the "cold, quiet mysterious, androgenous, gackt-like introverted hero". UGH. Voice acting is getting better but it can be still be awful at times. If you ask me the best RPG I've played recently (in terms of character development, and voice acting) is Canadian! (KOTOR).

While your question is pretty silly to me, Ill play along by saying that the way the reviews speak of the scripted sequences and the way the characters feel "alive", I should think character depth and acting have to be better than most japanese rpgs.

(PS. I'm not Canadian)

 

[Ghost Freeman]

It's all about intellectual property and the audience it targets. Nothing special about Japanese RPGs or American FPSs.

 

[Methias]

And how exactly is the plot of western rpgs better? I've played a lot of western rpgs and the story is pretty much the same in all of them too!

Yeah, I guess maybe I didn't mean so much that the subject matter of the stories bothered me, more the execution of them. Take Neverwinter Nights for example. The story of that game is very solid. The plot and dialogue are pieced together in a very effective way. Another two that I enjoyed were Final Fantasy Tactics and Vagrant Story. I felt the stories carried a more serious tone that was much more impactful. I guess that's the thing that mostly bothers me about alot of Japanese RPGs. I feel like their stories are told in such a casual way that it robs them of all their weight. Maybe that has more to do with their intended audience though.

edit: yes, i realize that fft and vagrant story are both squaresoft games (japanese games).

 

[Methias]

I found morrowind boring. Infact...I didn't even know it had a plot. It was so vague.

Agreed. Morrowind was fun as a character building RPG, but I didn't find the plot to be all that engaging.

 

[ViolenceJack]

I think that Western games have begun to surpass Japanese games in terms of creativity, writing quality, and immersiveness.....especially in the last 5 years or so.

I was actually gonner read quite abit of this thread before posting but i found this quite funny. I mean 5 years, id love you to list 5 games from the US with a really good story, atm i can only think of Deus Ex and the Legacy of Kain series.

It's hard to compare em... Japanese games have a lot of innovation, but I think HL2 is still better. If I had to choose between a remake of FF7 and HL2, I'd go with HL2. Though a remake of FF7 for the PS2 (Or PS3) on a newer engine (FF10 style, maybe) I'd be pretty happy. Actually, arn't they doing that?

a FF7 remake would be cool. I have never actually thought about it probably because the original was good enough anyway. They have made a sequal which is in fact a film.

The way the US film market works is kind of like Star Wars games. If you keep making loads of them then your gonner get a decent one sooner or later

 

[Methias]

That's one thing, I now realize, that Japanese RPGs definitely have going for them often. I frequently find the music in Final Fantasy games to be very good and atmospheric. That is what I think basically (along with its artwork and sheer scale of vision) made FF7 the classic that we know today (for me at least).

Of course most of these opinions that we're all presenting here are generalisations, so must be taken accordingly.

 

[Methias]

I mean 5 years, id love you to list 5 games from the US with a really good story, atm i can only think of Deus Ex and the Legacy of Kain series.

Neverwinter Nights (all 3 titles)
System Shock 2
Half-Life (just barely out of range sorry)
Halo
Metroid: Prime (developed by Retro Studios, right here in the US of A)

I could go on my friend...

 

[Majestic XII]

Half-Life and Halo didnt really have a good story.

Half life is just a basic run to the mill alien invading game.

Come on, when hentai games (Kimi ga nozomu eien ) got better storylines than some western AAA games.... then theres something wrong

 

[lans]

Neverwinter Nights (all 3 titles)
System Shock 2
Half-Life (just barely out of range sorry)
Halo
Metroid: Prime (developed by Retro Studios, right here in the US of A)

I could go on my friend...

Halo had all the cliches of a typical sci-fi film.

Let see:
Female voice...check
Black male as sargeant...check
Typical "marine" blabber....check
Ultimate warrior that alone can save humanity...check


Similarly, HL was basically an ellaborate version of Doom.

*Experiment gone wrong, yadda,yadda...
*Escape, lone survivour

Only US game with a good story was KOTOR.

 

[Raz]

Only US game with a good story was KOTOR.

Obviously you haven't played alot of games.

 

[spitcodfry]

Obviously you haven't played alot of games.

Seriously. Check out Bioware's entire back catalog, for example.

 

[smithgdwg]

Good stories for Western Games,

System Shock 2
Grim Fandango
Day of the Tentacle
Gabriel Knight series
Planescape Torment
Deus Ex
Mafia
Operation: Flashpoint
The Curse of Monkey Island
Thief Series
Arcanum
Beneath a Steel Sky
Discworld Noir

And MANY MANY more. If you dont think western games have good stories, then I guess you dont play very many.

 

[ViolenceJack]

Neverwinter Nights (all 3 titles)
System Shock 2
Half-Life (just barely out of range sorry)
Halo
Metroid: Prime (developed by Retro Studios, right here in the US of A)

I could go on my friend...

well as you can see i dont need to say much as other people have discredited your list. Half-Life's story is pretty thin though. It wasnt the good thing about it. The best thing about HL was probably the timing and the AI, gotta love those grunts.

Didnt like NWN, i never got far in it which was probably because of the story. It was slow, may have been a good story but just too slow.

 

[Foxtrot]

well as you can see i dont need to say much as other people have discredited your list. Half-Life's story is pretty thin though. It wasnt the good thing about it. The best thing about HL was probably the timing and the AI, gotta love those grunts.

Didnt like NWN, i never got far in it which was probably because of the story. It was slow, may have been a good story but just too slow.

Half-Life had a great story for the time and genre though.

 

[ViolenceJack]

Good stories for Western Games,

System Shock 2
Grim Fandango
Day of the Tentacle
Gabriel Knight series
Planescape Torment
Deus Ex
Mafia
Operation: Flashpoint
The Curse of Monkey Island
Thief Series
Arcanum
Beneath a Steel Sky
Discworld Noir

And MANY MANY more. If you dont think western games have good stories, then I guess you dont play very many.

I might have high requirements but by a good story but Operation: Flashpoint. The russians are attacking, lets attack back. with the odd detail in the middle like you get left behind.

Half-Life had a great story for the time and genre though.

There was an accident, aliens attack, government trys to cover up, you fight off the aliens and contain them, some wierd guy hires you. Thats about it, sorry for spoilers

 

[L337_Assasain]

...I happen to despise most Japanese games...they are to simliar, if not exactly the same. Why is every character either a pointy haired teen, a perfect looking girl with blue or pink hair??
I admit I like some japanese games, but it seems like they are becoming TOO similar, and are becoming afraid to do something different from the "hero saves the day, then gets the girl, then finds out some very dramatic plot twist" type games, but when they do...it's sorta sad to watch.
the BG series have excellent story lines...love icewind dale as well.

 

[Kiva128]

There's something about Japanese culture that I love. Idk what it is. The enviorments they create in their games (not just rpgs), the Japanese are some of the most talented and artistic people in the world. Anyone else agree with me and don't think I'm weird?

I agree 100%. Japanese have an awesome culture. Awesome enough to inspire me to learn how to draw anime and speak Japanese.

Go Japan!

 

[Subz]

Wow, Comparing A Sci Fi Fps To Japanese Rpg.....wtf Has This Place Come To

 

[TriggerHappy]

I thought Neverwinter Nights' story was really unoriginal..

 

[ShinRa]

Guys, really, what is it with Half-Life having a story. There is no big amazing story. There was nothing original, or good for that matter, about it. The enviornment, the fact you were alone, one man, on his own in the twisted ruins of a huge research facility, the ai, the graphics (for the time). That's what HL was good for. It's story? Get the **** outta here that's bs there IS no story, it has about as much of a story as doom 3 does.

 

[Caminante]

Sure, they're of different genres.

But, gameplay differences aside, is HL2 any better than all the Japanese RPGs out there, in terms of, acting, writing, plotting, characterisation etc?

Professional opinions needed.

Can I postpone my reply until I actually get to play the game? I don't know why are people in Japan so absessed with big-headed-eyed characters? I'm sick them! Also, why most they make all of their MALE games character look like girls?

 

[Cooper]

why most they make all of their MALE games character look like girls?

From what I can tell, the next FF game's top male character looks a lot like a girl.

Personally, I never really understood the fascination that some people have with the Japanese culture. But thats just me.

I don't really undestand why we are compairing HL2 to Japanese RPGs, it doesn't make any sense. Why don't we compare Japanese and American FPS's instead?

EDIT: To add on to my post, RPGs are a genre that relies upon a good story (well, most do) whereas FPS don't need a awesome story if the gameplay makes up for it.

 

[Parasite]

Valve is an exception.

Not really...they just know how too write a good story, but its just as designed to appeal to the largest amount of people as anything else in the genre, theyre just better at it. Valve would never design a game they knew wouldnt appeal to the mass market. They would never design a game they knew was only going to appeal to a tiny niche market of "art gamers".(for lack of a better term)

Dont kid yourself either. Art is a stronger factor in Japenese culture than compared to here, so the marketplace there is far more tolerant of "artsy" games and movies...but they are just as commercialy demanding and generally reject just as much as we would...its just different things.

Also, one of my freinds was born and raised in Japan and she said in general, the adult population does not watch anime, and anime is designed to appeal to young males. The same people it is here, only they are more tolerant of sex and voilence in thier art. It is a huge misconception that everyone in Japan loves anime and science fiction and video games. She said its pretty much the way it is here...certian people our age are into it. Also, over there cartoons are not "just for kids" as its often viewed here.(less and less so thankfully)

The main difference between the two cultures is that in Japan, commercial products are art, and in America art is a commercial product.

 

[Raziaar]

Some of you remind me of my brother. He is so engrossed with japanese gaming culture and stuff its like he wants to turn japanese. Not that there's anything wrong with that, but its the same with alot of youth today. However, he's not exactly youth. He's 3 years older than me and i'm 19.

Hey, isn't there an Oingo Boingo song titled just that? Turning Japanese.

 

[[[LuCkY]]]

If Valve manages to put as much creativity and originality in Half-Life2 as Nintendo puts in all their games then I am pretty ****ing happy

IMO Nintendo is top dog on the creative market. They always seem to come out with brand new daring, creative concepts that are fun to play for everyone. (pessemistic selfcentered bastards not included) Paper mario, kirby, pokemon, smash brothers melee etc. All these games have a high creative standard with killer and fun gameplay and are diffrent from the usual batch of filler you see on the game market.

Gameplay > all

 

[Kiva128]

Some of you remind me of my brother. He is so engrossed with japanese gaming culture and stuff its like he wants to turn japanese. Not that there's anything wrong with that, but its the same with alot of youth today. However, he's not exactly youth. He's 3 years older than me and i'm 19.

Hey, isn't there an Oingo Boingo song titled just that? Turning Japanese.

I think I'm turning Japanese, I think I'm turning Japanese I really think so.

 

[PvtRyan]

Can I postpone my reply until I actually get to play the game? I don't know why are people in Japan so absessed with big-headed-eyed characters? I'm sick them! Also, why most they make all of their MALE games character look like girls?

Wow.... I...... a-a-agree with.... you..... it's just... it's incredible.... my god...

 

[Raziaar]

Can I postpone my reply until I actually get to play the game? I don't know why are people in Japan so absessed with big-headed-eyed characters? I'm sick them! Also, why most they make all of their MALE games character look like girls?

I dunno, but there are alot of males in Japan that dress like women, and its not seen as unnatural over there.

 

[Parasite]

Some of you remind me of my brother. He is so engrossed with japanese gaming culture and stuff its like he wants to turn japanese. Not that there's anything wrong with that, but its the same with alot of youth today. However, he's not exactly youth. He's 3 years older than me and i'm 19.

Hey, isn't there an Oingo Boingo song titled just that? Turning Japanese.

rofl...your 19 and calling a 22 year old "old", when can name "oingo Boingo" songs Too funny

But I agree...alot of the anime geeks I know seem to think Japan is this mecca of cool anime gamers, where everyone embraces sci-fi, fantasy and animation. When ironically, commercialism over there is alot more "in your face", and the same group of horny teenagers are the ones into anime.

 

[OCybrManO]

Guys, really, what is it with Half-Life having a story. There is no big amazing story. There was nothing original, or good for that matter, about it. The enviornment, the fact you were alone, one man, on his own in the twisted ruins of a huge research facility, the ai, the graphics (for the time). That's what HL was good for. It's story? Get the **** outta here that's bs there IS no story, it has about as much of a story as doom 3 does.

Half-Life had a good story but having tons of dialogue, narration, and basically thrusting the story onto you like an RPG was not Valve's style with Half-Life. Valve is great at making realistic environments, people, and events... but only showing them to you from the very limited perspective of Gordon. That is where the expansion packs come in. If you want to learn as much about the story as possible you should also view it from the perspective of Barney Calhoun and Adrian Shepherd. Also, you have to make up Gordon's thoughts and feelings for yourself... unlike games where the main character talks a lot and you can see his facial expressions. Traditional Japanese-type RPG games spoon-feed the story to you. If you go through Half-Life with that expectation you will be disappointed. In Half-Life you have to pay attention and think for yourself if you want to get the most out of the story. It was a lot better than the standard FPS story at the time.

Also, Doom 3 has a lot of story elements that many people overlook. I liked reading all of those e-mails, watching all of the little videos, and listening to the reports through the PDA system. Again, the story is what you make of it (though, the core game got boring relatively quickly). Don't expect games to hold your hand while they lead you through the story... like an RPG. If you want that kind of storytelling go play Final Fantasy. I don't... that's why I'm here.

 

[Kiva128]

I dunno, but there are alot of males in Japan that dress like women, and its not seen as unnatural over there.

No not a lot actually. You make it sound like every guy over there is a cross dresser when in actuality, they really don't have anymore than america does.

 

[Zento]

Japanese guys = wear makeup

 

[Kiva128]

Japanese guys = wear makeup

So do americans, canadians, europeans! What's your damn point?

 

[Parasite]

Theres no point...

 

[aDidor22]

MDK 1 and 2 (by shiny, as you said) were interesting and cool, but overlooked.

The MDK series was very innovative with both the game play and story.

Ill admit, i like part 2 less because of the dog and the doc missions (It should have focused on kurt or whatever his name may be)

However, the intro levels of diving down toward the hugh city crawlers was awsome. The first game realyl blew me away, zaney humor, like shiny tends

 

[ViolenceJack]

To add on to my post, RPGs are a genre that relies upon a good story (well, most do) whereas FPS don't need a awesome story if the gameplay makes up for it.

Well this day and age FPS do actually need a good story. The difference between each FPS gameplay wise is very little it has never really changed. Basicly pick up a gun and kill everyone in a room then move to the next. HL2 abit different as you can interact with your surroundings more but then thats just another thing. The FPS may become, pick up a gun and kill everyone in a room and maybe use the surrounding area to help. Deus Ex was abit different but that was sort of a FPS/RPG. RPGs are alot different than FPS as they can be done in countless ways producing many many different gameplay styles but there not as easy to play so you need a good story to get people griped. If the FPS is going to continue the way it is its gonner need good stories and basicly be like an interactive film.

Half-Life had a good story but having tons of dialogue, narration, and basically thrusting the story onto you like an RPG was not Valve's style with Half-Life. Valve is great at making realistic environments, people, and events... but only showing them to you from the very limited perspective of Gordon. That is where the expansion packs come in. If you want to learn as much about the story as possible you should also view it from the perspective of Barney Calhoun and Adrian Shepherd. Also, you have to make up Gordon's thoughts and feelings for yourself... unlike games where the main character talks a lot and you can see his facial expressions. Traditional Japanese-type RPG games spoon-feed the story to you. If you go through Half-Life with that expectation you will be disappointed. In Half-Life you have to pay attention and think for yourself if you want to get the most out of the story. It was a lot better than the standard FPS story at the time.

Also, Doom 3 has a lot of story elements that many people overlook. I liked reading all of those e-mails, watching all of the little videos, and listening to the reports through the PDA system. Again, the story is what you make of it (though, the core game got boring relatively quickly). Don't expect games to hold your hand while they lead you through the story... like an RPG. If you want that kind of storytelling go play Final Fantasy. I don't... that's why I'm here.

OpFor and Blueshift werent make by valve. HL wasnt made with them in mind they were just extensions, its not hard to add little extra story bits onto a simple story such as HL to make the story seem better. You are never really forced into a story with a game its more of an immersive value. HL didnt really have one, story wise. I bet there are loads of people that played HL and didnt actually notice there was really a story. They would say, "some aliens attacked and you saved the day killing them". RPGs dont force a story on you, you more like fall into it. You can play games such as FF7 and actually take no notice to the story skipping all the FMV sequences and just play the game and say you liked the game because of the gameplay. You can read the stuff and everything and then enjoy the story. Its not forced in your mouth so to speak, you do have a choice and some really good games you just end up following the story because its really good.

Having a story set out like Doom 3 is just bad, with all the emails, some people may like it but i can bet the majority of the gaming community couldnt be bothered to sit there reading emails and just skimmed them to find the code to get more ammo. Doom 3's story may have been better than what most people said but it was set out bad and wasnt imersive at all. I mean imagine if the film was set out in the same way. Tons and tons of voice overs of some guy reading the emails in his head. They might as well make a book instead.


In japanese culture dont you get like adult males after long days at the office go to say, a brothel to relax then go home to his wife and kids and everyones happy. Did i mention im turning japanese tomorrow.

edit: lol, didnt notice i typed so much, no bugger will read it now