Half-Life 2, Doom 3 and Halo 2 - A discussion

SupaKoopa

SupaKoopa

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The Big Three

I realize there were some uh....unfriendly...debates about Half life 2 vs doom3...so, it its okay with the mods, how about we have a thread to POLITELY, INTELLIGENTLY, debate about the big three upcoming first person shooters. Halo2, Half Life 2, and Doom 3.
half life 2>halo2 + doom3

based SOLELY on what we've seen so far, here's my personal comparison

Graphics: Doom 3
Runner Up: Half Life 2

they all look great...but i think Doom3 edges out HL2 just by a liitttle bit with its crazy lighting, and i think it's models have a higher poly count. HL2 looks gorgeous, though, so it gets runner up...its REALLLY close though, and after looking at that G-Man screenshot below, i almost wanna change my mind...but doom3 wins just by a TINNY bit..and for an Xbox game, Halo is stunning, but is beaten down by the PC heavyweights.


Sound Halo 2
Runner Up: Half Life 2

Marty O'donnel(Halo's sound guy) is the man...the score and sound FX blew me away in the E3 demo...the HL2 and Doom3 music just seemed to add some nice ambient background noise.

Gameplay: Half Life 2
Runner Up: Halo 2
Doom 3 is just a pretty run and gun. Halo 2 should have some nice squad battles, vehicle battles, and one-man-army missions...but Half Life 2 has the zombie-killing of Doom 3 (headcrabs), the vehicles and squads of Halo2 (check out the buggy vs. alien gunship movie, and the barney streetfight movie, both part of the e3 demo),and adds in so much more, with great AI, physics based puzzles, and an immersive story presented all in the beautiful in game engine. hands down, half life wins.

Lasting Appeal: Half Life 2
Runner Up: Halo 2

Live support and Co op are great, but Half life 2 wins. HL2 will get its own MP mode (which is being kept under wraps), a Co-op mod being assisted by Valve themselves, and a TON of other user-made single- and mutli-player mods. We'll be playing games using the Source engine until way after Xbox1 is forgotten.

Winner: Half Life 2
Runner Up: Halo 2
best physics ever, best AI ever, and arguably best graphics ever. pick up your crowbars this september, its gonna be great.

comments?
 
Re: The Big Three

Originally posted by SupaKoopa
I realize there were some uh....unfriendly...debates about Half life 2 vs doom3...so, it its okay with the mods, how about we have a thread to POLITELY, INTELLIGENTLY, debate about the big three upcoming first person shooters. Halo2, Half Life 2, and Doom 3.
Click to expand...

ahh the optimism!

Well, while the thread remains friendly i will put in my twopence:

I am looking forward to D3 & HL2 more than Halo. Thats not to say I didn't like Halo - i bought the x-box purely for to play it!! But to me its not one of The Big Three, not anymore.

From the footage i have seen of D3 & HL2 i cannot wait to get my hands on them both. As for which one will be better... well i have to play them first ;-)

I also saw a video of DNF ("when its done") and that looks cool too, but i fear i may be dead before i get to play that one.

It looks like there are some exciting times to come for the FPS ...
 
Wouldnt Deus Ex 2 be a better comparison than Halo 2. The three are then fairly equal, both in terms of engine style and gameplay.
If its all the predecessor was, with graphics equaling or outperforming HL2, it comes pretty close if not winning over HL2...
 
Deus ex2 cant be forgoten thats for sure. Deus ex one was possibly my favourite ever game. Simply cos it impresed me for so long lol. It took me ages to do. :)
 
hold up dudes........ you left out far cry :D

Thats gota come under "pure hugeness" ;)

I love how you can be indoors with dynamic lighting then just walk outside to a 5km by 5km island that is so dense.
 
Doom3 will be fully moddable. The alpha was already modders-friendly with text-based scripts, .tga textures, .ase and .lwo world objets...
It was almost possible to create a mod with the alpha (ok, the engine is really not finished yet, so it would have been extremely slow...)
Doom3 has great graphisms, but the scenario is "classic" (even though I heard someone was writting a good scenario for ID)

HL² has good graphism, but it's also scalable. The mod community is already huge (mods before the game, this is unbelievable).
Plus I'm pretty sure the game will be astounding, just like the first one.

Halo2... I don't know about it sorry :/ forgive me

don't forget there are others good FPS: STALKER, DX:InvisibleWar....
 
What ARE you talking about? None of those games are out so this is all so very speculatory. How do you know - and apologies if you have evidence - that Halo 2 will have fantastic sound?
Whatever, I'm not trying to flame you - you've merely confuzled me and I have my doubts...
Anyway, you didn't even MENTION Deus Ex 2 which'll be so great that copies of D3 everywhere will simply shrivel up by mere virtue of DX2's brilliance. Oh yeah.
 
all imo, i think we should wait till they all come out :|

it just down to this, if its fun you play it, if it isn't you drop it that simple.
you like being scared to death and wetting your pants like a 2 year old play doom 3 (imo)
want to kill things with sharp sticks and blow up things and watch people fly around in a ragdoll motion play HL2 (imo)
Halo 2, ive seen the E3 movie but who honstly g.a.s. until it comes out on PC if it ever does (imo)
:D

and im getting HL2 and DOOM3 mauhaha.
 
Either i'm living under a rock, or there isn't much excitement about for these other games DX2, STALKER etc.

Unfortunately by the time I tried to play DX1 it was so old I laughed at it (yes i was living under a rock again). It would be like taking half-life now and trying to play it - ie. without the nostalgia. I saw this effect on my friend who said it was sh*t... the poor poor man.

So its fair to say i'm not too excited about DX2 but then i have been living under a rock...
 
I'm looking forward to both HL2 and Doom 3.

I couldn't care less about Halo2.
 
Originally posted by MrD
Either i'm living under a rock, or there isn't much excitement about for these other games DX2, STALKER etc.

Unfortunately by the time I tried to play DX1 it was so old I laughed at it (yes i was living under a rock again). It would be like taking half-life now and trying to play it - ie. without the nostalgia. I saw this effect on my friend who said it was sh*t... the poor poor man.

So its fair to say i'm not too excited about DX2 but then i have been living under a rock...
Click to expand...

No, Deus Ex really was pants, so many people thought it was amazing and original when it was cliqceched and very dull.

I was looking forward to STALKER a great deal untill I saw the last video which caused my heart to sink.
 
hl2, d3, stalker, farcry, deux ex 2, etc.
there are so many fps games is hard to compare them all
 
Originally posted by Mr.Magnetichead
No, Deus Ex really was pants, so many people thought it was amazing and original when it was cliqceched and very dull.

I was looking forward to STALKER a great deal untill I saw the last video which caused my heart to sink.
Click to expand...

Ah well thats cool then, i didn't miss anything important.

Still, not sure what STALKER is?
maybe i should boogie on over and have a look at this video ...

then its back to the rock
 
Originally posted by Mr.Magnetichead
No, Deus Ex really was pants, so many people thought it was amazing and original when it was cliqceched and very dull.
Click to expand...
Yes yes yes. Of course it was. One of the most open-ended intelligent games ever created. It had some cliches to it but then that's the way it is with practically ALL GAMES.
It had some really rather intellectual moments and its use of conspiracy theories (both old and new) was deeply mysterious and interesting. It was an extremely involving and highly interactive game as well.
I fail to see what was dull about it unless what you were looking for was a pure gun-and-run, in which case you simply missed out as this was a mature game.
Each to their own, though. I just don't see you backing up your claims. You're in the minority.
 
very very important.

Deus ex was a true great.


There was just so much to do in deus ex. And i love exploring so it suited me just fine.

Plus yeah, its one of the only games i have ever played that made me think about what to do next and the storyline as well. :)
 
Exactly. Once I found out you could save Paul, I went through and played the whole thing again just so I could try - I remember feeling really bad when he first died.
God, what a game. Mr.Magnetichead's weird.
DX2 will be just spiffing:E
 
Deus Ex was great in terms of the not sure what's happening conspiracy thing. It was very very deep.

I gather that Half Life 2 will be kinda similar.

From ign.com
But even though they're completely unique, there are definitely characters that stand out in terms of their role. The G-man is definitely back. "He still has a big part in the game," says Doug, and "he's still your nemesis. As you'd expect, the G-man has a hand in all the nonsense going on." Barney's back as well, along with Dr. Kleiner, Gordon's mentor in the first game. It seems as if the roles the NPCs play has been expanded as well. "As in the first game, there's a big question about who's really the bad guy. Kleiner makes a big assertion in Half-Life 2 to get all the people we think of as friendly moving in a certain direction."

There are also two nameless guys in this room, a priest and a man in an orange jumpsuit. Doug explains them as the Huggie Bears of the game. They're friendly enough but their motives still might be bad. You'll need to be in good with them but not too good. As far as the team's concerned Half-Life was a bit too direct in terms of conflict. If you weren't wearing a white lab coat, you were something to shoot at. This time around the sides will be a bit more fluid and a bit less distinct.

Click to expand...

Also in Deus Ex was the amazing way the Characters remembered what you've done. I remember being very shocked when I got told off for going into the girl's toilets (I wanted to see what would happen). It was just mentioned in conversation about 10 minutes after I'd done it. Wow.
 
I will buy HL2, Doom 3, and Halo 2.

To me, Deus Ex didn't feel good. It was a cool game but it doesn't come close to the feel of the Half-Life engine... and HL2 is supposed to feel just as good if not better.

A lot of the things I didn't like about Deus Ex were mainly problems with the engine... hopefully the sequel will fix those problems.

One thing that didn't impress me that a lot of other people liked was the multiple endings... big deal... four possible endings. The story still felt linear to me. There are a bunch of boolean values that change when you do certain things (like walk in the women's restroom) and people just change their reaction based on a couple of values. I will be impressed if they try to pull something off like the upcoming XBox RPG Fable. You start off as a child and as you grow all your decisions help to determine your path in life... pure good, pure evil, or somewhere in the grey area. All your scars stay with you. You can pick up traits of the people you hang out with a lot, even belching and flatulating. The game world goes through seasons. Other people grow old and die. It's one of the most ambitious RPGs yet... I just hope they pull it off. Check it out if you like console RPGs and you have an XBox.

Other console games I want to get when they are released: Mario Tennis (GC), kill.switch (PS2/XBox), Metal Arms: Glitch in the System (All 3 systems, publisher is VU)

Screenshots and blurbs:

Mario Tennis -
Screenshots
"All we have to go on are four (admittedly impressive) screenshots, and the experiences of playing the Nintendo 64 tennis extravaganza."
I still play Mario Tennis on the Project64 emulator... I don't take out my N64 just to play one game.

kill.switch -
Screenshots
"Plenty of games let you dive into the fray with guns-a-blazing, but it's hard to think of any that devote equal attention to the art of finding cover from which to launch said barrage. And as any weekend sniper will tell you, getting good cover is at least half the battle. The status quo is due to change, however, when Namco's kill.switch hits the streets. Internally developed at Namco USA, finding good cover in kill.switch is just as important as having steady aim, if not more so. The developers have built the entire game around this concept, and it adds an interesting new dimension to the standard military shooter."
I particularly like the "blind fire" feature that lets you hold your gun over your cover and shoot to keep the enemies at bay until you decide what to do.

Metal Arms: Glitch in the System -
Screenshots
"Metal Arms: Glitch in the System is a gift from the gaming gods for those looking for a robot-related action game on the Xbox that stars a renegade robot named Glitch fighting an evil robot named General Corrosive to save his world from utter decimation. For those with slightly less specific tastes, Metal Arms should be right up your alley, as well. The action is solid, the graphics are impressive, and it has robots…lots and lots of robots. What more could a fella ask for? Yes, besides a pony."
There's just something about a cute little robot that has big guns and can take control of big robots with even bigger guns.
 
OCybrManO, I know what you mean about the feel of Day o' Sex - the weapons in particular felt a bit disconnected. But eveything else was just so dandy that it didn't matter.
 
Originally posted by El_Chi
Yes yes yes. Of course it was. One of the most open-ended intelligent games ever created. It had some cliches to it but then that's the way it is with practically ALL GAMES.
It had some really rather intellectual moments and its use of conspiracy theories (both old and new) was deeply mysterious and interesting. It was an extremely involving and highly interactive game as well.
I fail to see what was dull about it unless what you were looking for was a pure gun-and-run, in which case you simply missed out as this was a mature game.
Each to their own, though. I just don't see you backing up your claims. You're in the minority.
Click to expand...

Tt was a conspiracey theory geeks wet dream, the way they threw unexplained events together in a mish mash left me laughing at its idiocey, the interactivity wasnt original, system shock 2 did that. The upgrade system was shallow as were the weapons, the engine was poor, the graphics abismal and the story line with its surposedly non liniar gameplay.......ened up being liniar.
 
is dnk any good? all i know is that it uses a heavily modified unreal or ut engine. Man these engines are old even though they are heavily modified.
 
Originally posted by MrD
damn i did miss something important
Click to expand...

Incredibly important. Other people have already explained why it's so damn good, but I just have to intervene here and declare to you that it's one of my most loved and cherished games :p

Buy it for a fiver, and enjoy hours of futuristic fun!
 
I'm definitly buying hl2 and a videocard that could run it in maximum detail with decent speed. Then spend the major portion of time playing multilplay.

i will consider buying doom3 if it has mods and support up to at least 16 players mp

halo 2 is not for pc, so i won't even think of it.

dnk sounds too much(or only) "shoot them up" and built on an old engine. i'm downloading its e3 video now , i will see what i can find out. but i think i won't buy it unless it's better than doom3.

deux2 has too much storyline, i won't have time to find out all the multiple ends and i don't enjoy too much playing the game alone for too long time.

stalker has great outdoor maps, but, from what i had seen in the video, the movements of body are too mechanic, people doesn't move as naturally or as "humanly" as in hl2 or doom3 ( see how those soldiers with pistol holding in their hands move)

far cry looks great, but hl2 plus its mods is already enough, no time for far cry
 
Originally posted by Abom|nation
Incredibly important. Other people have already explained why it's so damn good, but I just have to intervene here and declare to you that it's one of my most loved and cherished games :p

Buy it for a fiver, and enjoy hours of futuristic fun!
Click to expand...

Like I said I did!

Trouble was I couldn't get it into it, it had that "this is very old and crap" feeling about it. Wolfenstien 3D was a corker of a game, but if you loaded it up now ...

Shame. Hopefully with DX2 it will not be important to know what happened in the first one too much.
 
The thing that totally ruined Deus Ex for me was the horrible animation where people look like they are trying to sprint on ice when they are running around... that and the AI.
 
rofl, yeah that animation was teh pits.
and the AI could have been a little beter, but i never really noticed much cos i never let them see me. except for when i electric stun prob thingied them. heheh. that has to be one of the great weapons in a game. :D
 
Originally posted by Mr.Magnetichead
Tt was a conspiracey theory geeks wet dream, the way they threw unexplained events together in a mish mash left me laughing at its idiocey, the interactivity wasnt original, system shock 2 did that. The upgrade system was shallow as were the weapons, the engine was poor, the graphics abismal and the story line with its surposedly non liniar gameplay.......ened up being liniar.
Click to expand...
I'm resisting flaming you so very hardcore - I want to call you things but I'll refrain and simply explain to you why you're wrong.
I don't quite see how events were "unexplained" (mysterious certainly, but not unexplained) and they weren't a "mish-mash", it was an intricate web, foo'. Plus the characters were deep and well-acted. And it was tense.
Also, the story-line was not fully non-linear because that is absurd. When telling a story, you have a beginning, a middle and an end and that is the way it is told. The main points stood as they were because that was the story. The GAMEPLAY was non-linear, not the plot. The plot was not abysmal, it was cleverer than most games' plots/2-d pretenses.
The interactivity may not have been ORIGINAL per se (and by the way, to the best of my recollection SShock2 came out AFTER DX - although you're probably referring to the original) but it was something lacking from most games that is a Good Thing and besides, Warren Spector created System Shock AND Deus Ex. And you're surprised there are similarities because...?
The weapons were a bit bum, but how difficult do you want the upgrade system to be exactly? Should the player have to implant them themselves as a surgeon side game?
The graphics weren't that great but: a) that hardly mattered; b)DX2's graphics look damn good.
 
About the stun gun thing: That was fun, but I can't wait to kill enemies with boxes, propane tanks, bottles, mattresses, barrels, dressers, etc... and maybe cars after the manipulator gets upgraded during SP. Too many possibilities!
 
Originally posted by El_Chi
I'm resisting flaming you so very hardcore - I want to call you things but I'll refrain and simply explain to you why you're wrong.
I don't quite see how events were "unexplained" (mysterious certainly, but not unexplained) and they weren't a "mish-mash", it was an intricate web, foo'. Plus the characters were deep and well-acted. And it was tense.
Also, the story-line was not fully non-linear because that is absurd. When telling a story, you have a beginning, a middle and an end and that is the way it is told. The main points stood as they were because that was the story. The GAMEPLAY was non-linear, not the plot. The plot was not abysmal, it was cleverer than most games' plots/2-d pretenses.
The interactivity may not have been ORIGINAL per se (and by the way, to the best of my recollection SShock2 came out AFTER DX - although you're probably referring to the original) but it was something lacking from most games that is a Good Thing and besides, Warren Spector created System Shock AND Deus Ex. And you're surprised there are similarities because...?
The weapons were a bit bum, but how difficult do you want the upgrade system to be exactly? Should the player have to implant them themselves as a surgeon side game?
The graphics weren't that great but: a) that hardly mattered; b)DX2's graphics look damn good.
Click to expand...


No, I didnt say the way things were explained were unexplained, I said that the way the game took aspects of unexplained events in our world and used them to cobble together a third rate 'story' if you can call it that.

The interactivity in the game was pointless, much like geomod tech in Red Faction. They used it as a main selling point but there was no point in it.

The game tried to make the player think they were smart by actually giving them everything on a plate, it wasnt deep, it wasnt complex but it made the fools who were taken in by it think they were.

There was nothing special about Deus Ex.
 
There is really no point to this thread. It's just another typical fanboy thing based on preference. I'm looking forward to all of these games, that's the bottom line.
 
Originally posted by MrD
Like I said I did!

Trouble was I couldn't get it into it, it had that "this is very old and crap" feeling about it. Wolfenstien 3D was a corker of a game, but if you loaded it up now ...

Shame. Hopefully with DX2 it will not be important to know what happened in the first one too much.
Click to expand...

Ah, I didn't really read everyone that was said. But still, it's not not that ugly, I kinda like the graphics and the lip movement on characters, it still looks and feels quite good.

About DX:IW, I'd bet it would help to play the first game, otherwise you might miss some good tidbits of information that are relevant to the original, which could potentially increase the immersion factor.

Out of interest, how far did you get into the original? Up to which level? Because if you only played the first few, you're missing so much, it gets much, much better as you delve further into it.
 
Originally posted by Mr.Magnetichead
No, I didnt say the way things were explained were unexplained, I said that the way the game took aspects of unexplained events in our world and used them to cobble together a third rate 'story' if you can call it that.
The interactivity in the game was pointless, much like geomod tech in Red Faction. They used it as a main selling point but there was no point in it.
The game tried to make the player think they were smart by actually giving them everything on a plate, it wasnt deep, it wasnt complex but it made the fools who were taken in by it think they were.
There was nothing special about Deus Ex.
Click to expand...
1. Deus Ex would not be the first thing ever to take unexplained real world events and use them for plot purposes. That it used real world events plus some conspiracy theories gave it a feeling of grounding (which was needed as it could be rather far-fetched). And yes, it was a story. And a good one at that - deception mystique, intrigue... Those are pretty solid elements for a Good Plot-Line. Especially as they were implemented well.

2.The interactivity wasn't pointless, it gave the game world depth. The characters, the conversations, the notes found, the exploration, the numerous ways to complete objectives, the objects. Alright the physics were poor but who cares? It was like 3 years ago. I can't quite see how "there was no point in it" - it was good and served its purpose well. You're not backing that one up.
Hoever yes, GeoMod was rubbish.

3. By saying this you're really grasping at straws by essentially calling everyone who likes Deus Ex, and disagrees with you, a moron. Great way to debate there (interestingly enough, this is what I refrained from doing earlier. For a reason). If it presented players with things easily sometimes this is because there is NO POINT in having a game so ludicrously intricate as to render it unplayable. The player is not in the developer's imagination and therefore it is the developer's task to guide the player to some degree. It had more depth and compexity to it than the large majority of games. Games are not yet such a mature medium that they are going to start implementing philosophical or political statements, but it is games precisely like Deus Ex that will help gaming mature and flourish. It's all relative and you should not justify your claim by insulting anyone who disagrees with you - arrogance and argument are two different things, my man and I suggest you realise that.

4. Deus Ex was a special game and I think you'll find if you do a general consensus that most people will agree with me. If you did not gain any enjoyment from it then I am sorry for you. The loss is entirely yours.
Rant over.

Edit: Spaced to make it look less bulky and more readable.
 
Originally posted by El_Chi
1. Deus Ex would not be the first thing ever to take unexplained real world events and use them for plot purposes. That it used real world events plus some conspiracy theories gave it a feeling of grounding (which was needed as it could be rather far-fetched). And yes, it was a story. And a good one at that - deception mystique, intrigue... Those are pretty solid elements for a Good Plot-Line. Especially as they were implemented well.

2.The interactivity wasn't pointless, it gave the game world depth. The characters, the conversations, the notes found, the exploration, the numerous ways to complete objectives, the objects. Alright the physics were poor but who cares? It was like 3 years ago. I can't quite see how "there was no point in it" - it was good and served its purpose well. You're not backing that one up.
Hoever yes, GeoMod was rubbish.

3. By saying this you're really grasping at straws by essentially calling everyone who likes Deus Ex, and disagrees with you, a moron. Great way to debate there (interestingly enough, this is what I refrained from doing earlier. For a reason). If it presented players with things easily sometimes this is because there is NO POINT in having a game so ludicrously intricate as to render it unplayable. The player is not in the developer's imagination and therefore it is the developer's task to guide the player to some degree. It had more depth and compexity to it than the large majority of games. Games are not yet such a mature medium that they are going to start implementing philosophical or political statements, but it is games precisely like Deus Ex that will help gaming mature and flourish. It's all relative and you should not justify your claim by insulting anyone who disagrees with you - arrogance and argument are two different things, my man and I suggest you realise that.

4. Deus Ex was a special game and I think you'll find if you do a general consensus that most people will agree with me. If you did not gain any enjoyment from it then I am sorry for you. The loss is entirely yours.
Rant over.

Edit: Spaced to make it look less bulky and more readable.
Click to expand...
To sum it up: Deus Ex was all that Half Life was at the time. Its exactly the same thing. Except Deus Ex had greater depth. And graphics. And interactivity. And gameplay. And dialogue. And story. And <add everything a game contains here>.

Saying Deus Ex is bad is saying Half Life was bad. I doubt anyone here can really say that and look themselves in the mirror after without feeling much shame...

Though I know I will be flamed for this :D
 
Not feeding the troll above (serpent) I'm going to give my on-topic opinion:

When I first saw ingame movies of Halo, I was like "I need an Xbox, now!!", but then it cooled down because a friend showed me the game on his xbox and I realised that the single-player part wasn't that great, although I must say after initially struggling with the controls, the xbox platform is excellent for this game.
I haven't bothered with looking for Halo2 screenshots, interviews or anything, because HL2 will require my full attention for up to five years from now :D

When I first heard about Doom3, I was instantly terrified by the high system requirements. Of course, as time went by hardware has evolved and now the requirements are...well, still high but not as high as they used to be, relatively. What I mean to say is: I's rather spend money on a 9800 Pro to play HL2 at 60-70 fps, than to play Doom3 at 30-40 fps (that's just a guess, I'm not saying it'll be like that). HL2 is just so worth it.
 
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