Half-Life 2, Doom 3 and Halo 2 - A discussion

[Mr.Magnetichead]

Originally posted by dawdler
To sum it up: Deus Ex was all that Half Life was at the time. Its exactly the same thing. Except Deus Ex had greater depth. And graphics. And interactivity. And gameplay. And dialogue. And story. And <add everything a game contains here>.

Saying Deus Ex is bad is saying Half Life was bad. I doubt anyone here can really say that and look themselves in the mirror after without feeling much shame...

Though I know I will be flamed for this

Deus Ex and HL having nothing else incommon except for the fact that they are both Fps's

 

[dawdler]

Originally posted by Mr.Magnetichead
Deus Ex and HL having nothing else incommon except for the fact that they are both Fps's

Have you played entire Deus Ex? And I wasnt saying they where exactly the same as in the games themselves, but they have one thing in common:
They are two of the greatest game ever developed. The only difference is that in Deus Ex you choosed how to play. In Half Life you only had one option.

 

[Mr.Magnetichead]

Yes, Twice unfortuanatly.

 

[Feath]

Originally posted by Mr.Magnetichead
Yes, Twice unfortuanatly.

There's no need to act like a prat. Other people obviously like Deus Ex and you shouldn't call them Fools. If you managed to play though it twice then you mustn't have thought it was that unplayable.

Seriously, you are acting like it's the D word.

 

[OCybrManO]

Originally posted by dawdler
To sum it up: Deus Ex was all that Half Life was at the time. Its exactly the same thing. Except Deus Ex had greater depth. And graphics. And interactivity. And gameplay. And dialogue. And story. And <add everything a game contains here>.

I played through all of Deus Ex (just to get my money's worth) and all of HL (both when they were released). Consider that one came two years before the other. In terms of what the rest of the FPS genre was doing at the time Half-Life was a huge jump in practically every aspect of computer games. Deus Ex came out later and was only marginally better than HL in a couple of aspects (and much worse in some very important ones)... the rest is up to your tastes.

Deus Ex was not an immersive game (abysmal animation, stale acting, dumb AI, etc)... and no matter how good your story is, if you can't pull the player in the player won't care about the story.
In Half-Life things felt like you would expect them to and because the player never sees or hears Gordon it allows you to feel like you are an actual part of the story... even though you didn't have much of an effect over it.

In short, Half-Life is like a good novel and Deus Ex is like one of those "choose your own adventure" books... the novelty wore off by the time I finished it the first time so I didn't come back for more.

 

[Mr.Magnetichead]

Originally posted by Feath
There's no need to act like a prat. Other people obviously like Deus Ex and you shouldn't call them Fools. If you managed to play though it twice then you mustn't have thought it was that unplayable.

Seriously, you are acting like it's the D word.

But its ok for people to call me a fool because I DIDNT like it?

GG_DoubleStandard.

I played through it twice because after the first time i asumed I had missed somthing pretty fing important because I couldnt believe they were singing this games praises.

 

[dawdler]

Mr.Magnetichead, you played it through TWICE? Why a second time if you didnt like it?

Obviously we havent experienced the same Deus Ex. In terms of immersion, I think it beats even the allmighty Half Life. Deus Ex story and intelligence (not ai, simply game intelligence) is a masterpiece in comparison. I was drawn into it far more than HL when I played. HL seemed fairly braindead in comparison. HL is still one of the best games ever of course, it just went old rather fast. Deus Ex was more intriguing simply put. I agree that it had some poor animation, but that was nothing I thought of at the time.

Take your post and invert it, OCybrManO, and you got what I think

 

[Feath]

Originally posted by Mr.Magnetichead
But its ok for people to call me a fool because I DIDNT like it?

GG_DoubleStandard.

I played through it twice because after the first time i asumed I had missed somthing pretty fing important because I couldnt believe they were singing this games praises.

You were calling everyone who liked Deus Ex fools. I told you not to act like a prat for doing this. I'm not calling you a prat for not liking it. I'm calling you a prat because of the way you are acting about it.

 

[OCybrManO]

I think you are getting "deeper story" mixed up with "more immersive" because I will NEVER feel like part of the game if nothing feels right, everyone looks like they are ice skating when running on concrete, they run around like decapitated chickens when you get their attention, the characters sound like they are from a B-movie or a porno, and the weapons don't look or sound like they have any interaction with the world... there are more but I haven't played it since I beat it (within the week I bought it, more than 3 years ago) and my mind has blocked out most of that experience.

Frankly I felt more like I was part of the game in Quake or Quake II the last time I played them (within a month)... but to each his own.

 

[X-Vector]

Deus Ex sure has it faults and I can agree with some of the criticism levelled at the game in this thread, but Mr.Magnetichead's rants are patently absurd in their extremity.

Then again, perhaps we shouldn't pay so much attention to the opinion of a self-confessed id fan that accuses DX of being pants, cliched and dull.

GG_DoubleStandard indeed.

 

[el Chi]

Huzzah. Shall we leave it now?
Some people didn't like it. Most people do.
Good-oh.

 

[Guest]

i dont think doom 3 will be a good game
carmack himself said he likes his games really short and simple

 

[Feath]

Originally posted by El_Chi
Huzzah. Shall we leave it now?
Some people didn't like it. Most people do.
Good-oh.

Yeah. Done.

 

[MrD]

Originally posted by Abom|nation
Out of interest, how far did you get into the original? Up to which level? Because if you only played the first few, you're missing so much, it gets much, much better as you delve further into it.

Okay thanks, i'll give it another go because i don't think i got very far into it. In fact, if memory serves I started on a pier, went round the corner and then got annoyed cos there wasn't much ammo and I kept getting caught.

I need more patience I guess, but I got into Splinter Cell which had a lot of sneeking about so maybe I just need to persist a little.

 

[Apos]

I think it's interesting that even years after HL, no game that I know of added in scripted sequences. Even Deus Ex, one of the most complex, had fairly basic stuff (you! Walk over there. Shoot this guy!), and lots of "cinematic" converstations, but I was surprised that they didn't have any custom animation sequences to flesh out the world more. You'd think that everyone would want to copy HL's little touches (that made it's characters more interesting), but almost every game still just had a bunch of enemies standing aimlessly around in a room waiting for you.

I really liked Deus Ex, but if you're an action fan, you'd be let down: the enemies were fairly repetative: the real goal was to avoid them, not to run and gun them, cus that gets old fast.

 

[Apos]

In fact, if memory serves I started on a pier, went round the corner and then got annoyed cos there wasn't much ammo and I kept getting caught.

LOL, that's not even halfway through the first level (which isn't all that interesting compared to the rest).

 

[Feath]

Originally posted by Apos
I think it's interesting that even years after HL, no game that I know of added in scripted sequences. Even Deus Ex, one of the most complex, had fairly basic stuff (you! Walk over there. Shoot this guy!), and lots of "cinematic" converstations, but I was surprised that they didn't have any custom animation sequences to flesh out the world more. You'd think that everyone would want to copy HL's little touches (that made it's characters more interesting), but almost every game still just had a bunch of enemies standing aimlessly around in a room waiting for you.

I really liked Deus Ex, but if you're an action fan, you'd be let down: the enemies were fairly repetative: the real goal was to avoid them, not to run and gun them, cus that gets old fast.

I think I didn't kill many people in Deus Ex.

Star Trek Voyager: Elite force was full of scripted sequences. It really added to the atmosphere. Although, it was quite short, I enjoyed it.

 

[el Chi]

Originally posted by Apos
You'd think that everyone would want to copy HL's little touches (that made it's characters more interesting), but almost every game still just had a bunch of enemies standing aimlessly around in a room waiting for you.

Sadly, most games simply stuck their heads in the sand and hoped no-one would notice.

 

[dawdler]

In fact, if memory serves I started on a pier, went round the corner and then got annoyed cos there wasn't much ammo and I kept getting caught.

LOL
That's like quiting Half Life after the train ride cause it wasnt any shooting
Deus Ex is HUGE... Or at least I thought it was, I remember it just kept going, exactly like HL (except it had some better babes along the way ). But my memory on that part is fading, it was long ago... I do remember it was very worthwhile playing at least. Wasnt the slightest let down on the size, like with 95% of the fps games today...

Star Trek Voyager: Elite force was full of scripted sequences. It really added to the atmosphere. Although, it was quite short, I enjoyed it.

Yes, it featured the best movie feel I have ever seen. But I'm a slight trekker, so I cant really say anything, except I loved it. Was very funny when they started lining up Ferengi trade laws, and the hot babes throughout the game... mmmmmm...

 

[PLas]

okay. I like the author of this threads intention to keep the flame down. It really spoils the whole debate. Good call mate.

I think we must also not forget the “am I going to buy it effect”. You have to buy HL2, otherwise you wouldn’t be reading this forum. Doom3 is too fascinating to ignore; all the hype, all the history. Halo died in my opinion when they went to the console. FPS suck on consoles. It is as simple as that. I had a go at a mate’s house and the controller got right up my freckle so I just threw out all regards to the product their manufacturer and basically anything else that went with halo. They will not be getting my money unless they do something really revolutionary… and basically I can’t see that happening. I heard about Deus Ex too late from my brother. He kept insisting that it was really deep and good but on playing it I got bored with the chunky graphic’s and threw it out with the rest. Although out or pure respect for so many people that have had only excellent things to say abut Deus Ex I’ll be buying version2 of that too.

I see that there isn’t much point in debating anything here. Everyone that I know will be buying Doom3 and HL2 anyway. What is still not clear is what for title will the people who only buy games infrequently go for? At this point of time I think Doom3 has to have it. It is simply more legendary to the common people out there. Will this matter??? Absolutely not because even though Doom3 might sell well over 2004, HL2 will simply go on to out sell it over the next 5 years.

 

[MrD]

Originally posted by dawdler
LOL
That's like quiting Half Life after the train ride cause it wasnt any shooting

Fair point, i'm too impatient!

I remember trying to get hold of Elite Force a while back but I couldn't find it anywhere. Gave up in the end. Another mistake!

And then there was Unreal2...

 

[dawdler]

Doom3 is too fascinating to ignore; all the hype, all the history

I can. I only got nauscious of playing Doom :x


Edit: Original Elite Force wasnt good. Unreal 2 was pretty, but far to short, and a really moronic story (it involved me zero).

 

[Axyon]

Originally posted by MrD
Fair point, i'm too impatient!

I remember trying to get hold of Elite Force a while back but I couldn't find it anywhere. Gave up in the end. Another mistake!

And then there was Unreal2...

Play to at least after Hell's Kitchen, then you can tell me you don't like it. I can almost guarantee you won't say a thing, though

 

[subs]

Deus ex was in its very own league, dont diss it.

I have equal anticipation/wants from Hl2 and Dx2. Doom3 is at the bottom of my list. Im not bashing doom3 or anything, but if Doom3 is even as half as fun or long as hl2/dx2 ill be surprised.

*i know they are sorta different game types but one can still be longer/funner than the other no matter what genre.

 

[SupaKoopa]

well since i was a console gamer before i was a pc gamer(NES, SNES, N64, Gamecube, Xbox) I think the console bashing has gotta stop. admittedly, mouse+keyboard is better for shooters, but come on! the controller isn't half as bad as you make it out ot be. with a decent sort of subtle autoaim like in halo, it can be great...i'll post more later, i gotta go somewhere.

 

[SidewinderX]

eh, this thread started exaclty like my Doom3 engine compared againsnt Source engine started. Then the fanboys jumped in... then the thread got delted, after 500 posts or so.


I personally think Halo 2 will be one of the msot amazing console experiance ever.

Same for HL2, but on the PC.

 

[Caminante]

I'd say that both HL2 and D3 are equaily as good, i'd buy them both regarless of what they lack in comparation to each other. None the less to heck with that traitor Halo!.

 

[Tyl3n0L]

man so much good looking games are coming , half-life2, stalker, far cry, doom3, halo 2, half-life2 mods wow, the new battlefield vietnam look's cool to, max payne2, deus ex 2, Theif III, C&C Exp, UT 2004, lock-on air combat, star wars kotor etc.. etc.. etc..

my comp is ready :thumbs:

 

[el Chi]

There was a full preview article on Battlefield Vietnam in UK's PC Gamer that had a very small box-out on one of the pages describing a Vietnam mod that was underway for BF:1942 and how it looked very good indeed. Which I thought was a bit cheeky
Although I always wanted to see a review of Enter the Matrix that said: "Download the True Matrix mod for Max Payne. Cheaper and in many ways better."
Sorry - what is Far Cry, and is it a console game?

 

[Prince of China]

FarCry is a PC shooter

 

[el Chi]

Cheers!
<Does Google search> Oh THIS! Quite pretty (VERY nice textures), but a little cartoony (in particular the 1st person weapons). Plus, the island reminds me of Escape from Monkey Island... Ah-haaa!

 

[CyberGeek]

After putting a lot of thought into it... I have no clue whether I want Half-Life 2 or Doom III more. I'm getting both, no question about it, but if I didn't have either and walked into a store with money only to buy one I'm not sure which one I would walk out with.

On the one hand Half-Life 2 would deliver a nice, long SP adventure. The manipulator gun would allow me to play around with stuff for hours on end. Mapping could be fun, but I can't say I enjoy Hammer that much. If I map for Half-Life 2 it'll probably be mod work.

On the other hand, Doom III's editor seems to be like candy. My heart races whenever I think about positioning a light in the editor and seeing the effects in the preview window in real-time (yeah, I'm pathetic.) I also, strangely enough, look forward to mapping for Doom III's four player multiplayer. Mapping for Quake III engine games can take a loooong time because you must make the maps large enough to support a good number of players. With larger maps you typically need to create more complex layouts, which can result in it being a pain to balance. When mapping for just a few players you can use smaller layouts. While you still need to keep balance in mind, it's usually a bit easier to pull off. For me, at least.

As for Halo 2... Don't have an X-Box, not getting it. 'Nuff said.

 

[OCybrManO]

I try not to restrict my gaming experience to PCs only... there are lots of great games that come out for consoles that you can't get for the Microsoft "BeigeBox".

For example: My favorite overall game designer is Shigeru Miyamoto (*gasp* not Gabe?). He made Donkey Kong with no prior programming experience and saved Nintendo of America. Mario has since appeared in around 100 titles across a dozen platforms. Mario isn't the only memorable character he has made. Don't forget Bowser, Donkey Kong, Falco Lombardi, Fox McCloud, Ganondorf, Link, Luigi, Princess Peach, Princess Zelda, Sheik, Yoshi, and the rest of the gang. Everything Miyamoto touches just oozes with style.
He is the reason I own a Game Cube.

I also have an XBox because of Halo/Halo2 (not just those games but they were the selling point), XBox live, I can hook it up with all my friends' XBoxes and play System Link games over a LAN (or over the internet using XBox Gateway or GameSpy Tunnel to trick the XBoxes into thinking they are on a LAN together), and I already have Vice City on the computer (the only game I wanted to play on PS2).

I don't regret either decision... as soon as the scholarships kick in I'll get more games for them so I can get more use out of them.

 

[el Chi]

Max Payne 2, anyone?

 

[Prince of China]

IMO, Max Payne looks like a pedofile.

 

[Apos]

I also have an XBox because of Halo/Halo2

Apparently, you can now add Star Wars: KOTOR to that list too, cus it's supposed to be fantastic.

 

[subs]

soul caliber 2, forgot about that one. I want it just as much as dx2 and hl2. so many cool part 2's!!!!!! (but sould caliber 2 is technically a part 3 i think)

 

[el Chi]

Originally posted by Tredoslop
IMO, Max Payne looks like a pedofile.

Wow, you can spot them a mile off, can't you...

Waitaminute...

 

[Prince of China]

I sure can!

 

[Axyon]

Originally posted by Tredoslop
IMO, Max Payne looks like a pedofile.

Which Max version are you talking about? If you mean the most recent one, I think he just looks like a veteran cop of some kind, not a paedophile.