Half Life 2 is on top 5 on the list of top 200 games of all time

[Warbie]

No - most of Halo's level design is good. A few poor sections let stick in the memory though.

I'm a self confessed Halo fanboy and can't understand the inclusion no. 2 in this list. It is the low point of the series.

 

[Darkside55]

Halo 2 bitching

Despite the flaws presented in this second installment
what fools to disservice and claim this the worst of its kind
for though the series has always been dreck, of all of them
here flaw is pardoned through introduction of the Gravemind


Iambic heptameter, bitches.

 

[Viperidae]

Some of your iambs are off, but good try.

Also: HL2 was not hard. The suit autoreloads for you ffs.

 

[Darkside55]

Some of your iambs are off, but good try.

I figured they were. I was actually expecting Sulkdodds to show up and criticize my attempt.

 

[Operational]

Best thing about the list is that it reminded me that "Lode Runner" existed.

 

[MFL]

Where's my god damn Star Wars Rebel Assault 2?

WHERES MY GOD DAMN TIE PHANTOM!?

 

[Combine Hybrid]

halo 2 > half life 2

 

[stemot]

halo 2 > half life 2

Don't talk shit.

 

[SpotEnemyBoats]

I based my decision solely on core content. Excluding mods and such.
When you get right down to it, HL2's gameplay is a little shallow because of it's weak AI which makes all the difference in a FPS imo. It's the suspense and action that kept me going as well as the story.

I think if you compare to all other FPS out there, most of them seem to concentrate on mindless SHOOTAN (like Halo and even Call of Duty to an extent). Half-Life 2 pushes the bar and does somethind different, its characters have extremely life like personalities, and its own physics were ground breaking at that time. Sure, AI and more weapons would be nice... but there is other things in the game that make it great.

halo 2 > half life 2

You best be trollan/joking, sir.

 

[Viperidae]

I think if you compare to all other FPS out there, most of them seem to concentrate on mindless SHOOTAN (like Halo and even Call of Duty to an extent). Half-Life 2 pushes the bar and does somethind different, its characters have extremely life like personalities, and its own physics were ground breaking at that time. Sure, AI and more weapons would be nice... but there is other things in the game that make it great.

We're talking about gameplay. Sure HL2 is good for characters and what not. But the gameplay is just the same old (simplified) SHOOTAN plus an overpowered physics device.

 

[Darkside55]

Don't forget the fifteen-hour-long driving sequences in shitty vehicles interrupted by PHYSICS PUZZLES where you have to put cinderblocks in a shopping cart to raise a door.

 

[kupocake]

Don't forget the fifteen-hour-long driving sequences in shitty vehicles interrupted by PHYSICS PUZZLES where you have to put cinderblocks in a shopping cart to raise a door.

Warning: objects in quotation as exaggerated as they appear.

 

[Higlac]

anyway... That top 200 list didn't include Golden Sun or Banjo Kazooie. It is now void.

 

[SpotEnemyBoats]

Don't forget the fifteen-hour-long driving sequences in shitty vehicles interrupted by PHYSICS PUZZLES where you have to put cinderblocks in a shopping cart to raise a door.

Actually, that only took me 5 minutes. Now, the part with barrels that you had to put in that cage thing to make a bridge for the boat, that one made me want to tear my hair out.

We're talking about gameplay. Sure HL2 is good for characters and what not. But the gameplay is just the same old (simplified) SHOOTAN plus an overpowered physics device.

The character interaction and the physics puzzles are part of the gameplay, however the SHOOTAN is another part of it.

 

[VirusType2]

Warning: objects in quotation as exaggerated as they appear.

haha ha, shit, that's clever.

 

[Combine Hybrid]

You best be trollan/joking, sir.

Well, they are similar in some way.

 

[knut]

Actually, that only took me 5 minutes. Now, the part with barrels that you had to put in that cage thing to make a bridge for the boat, that one made me want to tear my hair out.

I found that one of HL2's easiest ''puzzles''

Easily.

 

[Sulkdodds]

I figured they were. I was actually expecting Sulkdodds to show up and criticize my attempt.

The spondee at "what fools" gave it an impressive disney-villain intensity, but "this THE worst OF" was pretty ugly. Generally I'm just impressed you persevered with what I've always considered a bonkers meter. (I love the first Halo)

I think Half-Life 2 is almost an adventure game. Perhaps you found the driving segments boring. But it's as much about the slow passage over and exploration of a detailed and atmospheric environment as it is about the sum of the gameplay mechanics which take you through it.

 

[Darkside55]

I wouldn't call the driving segments "boring," but they have two major flaws:

1. Horrid controls. The boat isn't as much as an offender as the buggy; you actually have a fairly good grip on the boat. The buggy, however, is one of the most unwieldly vehicles in a video game and makes driving a chore rather than an enjoyable break from shooting. Curse the man who put a turbo button on that thing.

2. The pacing. It's funny, because of the buggy's controls you're happy to get out and explore Highway 17, a welcome relief from guiding this rust-covered wireframe jalopy down the road. In contrast the boat is fun, smashing through boarded checkpoints, mowing Combine metrocops beneath your pontoon, running from a hunter-chopper and gliding up the sides of a concrete trench to avoid bombs, yeah, YEAH, I'M GOING SO FAST AND NOTHING CAN STOP ME THIS IS INCREDIBLE oh wait I have to stop and press some buttons and open this door. Okay! I'm back in the water again OH SHIT THAT APC IS SHOOTING MISSILES AT ME YEAH COME ON YOU BASTARDS I'LL TAKE YOU ALL ON YOU CAN'T STOP ME BECAUSE I'M ON A BOAT oh wait I have to put a bunch of stuff in this dumbwaiter to get the pulley to work so I can pass. NOW I'VE GOT A GUN AND I'M RIDING ALONG MAN THIS IS GREAT goddamn I have to get out and screw around with these cargo crates and then line up my boat for this jump.

The pacing makes the chapter seem longer than it is, and the breaks are so jarring that it's no longer fun. While I certainly can appreciate taking time to explore every inch of the environment in HL2 (it is me, after all), it feels less like you're on an adventure and more like you're being impeded for the sake of having obstacles thrown at you at the designer's whim.

With the car you're just like, "Oh, thank goodness, there's a house in the distance. Now I can park this thing and go look at it, even though I'm sure there's going to be zombies and metrocops and I'm low on health and ammo and I could easily bypass this area." Anything to get away from the buggy.

 

[MFL]

The Half Life series needs to go back to it's roots. Marine AI please, and environments that make fighting actually interesting, i.e. most of Half-Life 1. Do this, AND keep the fluff, and I think I will personally cream every pair of pants I have. And yours too.

 

[Darkside55]

MARINE AI IS BEST AI

 

[Danimal]

FIRE
IN
THE HOLE

 

[MFL]

Sigh. It really was, but I think the reason that it was has a lot to do with the integration of the AI with the level design. They complimented each other so well, and the designers of the original levels weren't tied down trying to recreate a near east urban environment. But even then, when they had the opportunity to do whatever they wanted, say for instance in the Citadel, the AI for the Combine wasn't particularly all that interesting. That doesn't give them an excuse for their choices though. Also, their weapon systems for the most part are unimaginative (sans maybe the striders) and don't present any real challenge (and striders most definitely DO NOT, thank you VERY MUCH for infinite bazooka rounds). I think if they were to have remembered they were making a game in addition to making ye olde legendary half life continuation epic, that the game would have had more lasting appeal.

 

[Darkside55]

The Combine AI is actually pretty good--in large squads, and in open spaces. Neither of which is ever present in HL2. Given time and enough area, Combine overwatch will fan out, group up, flank, and do some pretty cool things. With what they're given in HL2, they'll run up to you, stop, stand there, and shoot until you kill them.

Marine AI was great for the small spaces of HL1, and they should've just reused it in HL2.

 

[Wanted Bob]

I agree with Darkside. Messing around with the AI in Gary's Mod really shows what they are capable of, the level design of the original game just doesnt showcase this.

Unlike FEAR, which had tons of scripted AI moments which made it seem brilliant in the game, but I dunno how well they would fare in custom maps.

 

[kupocake]

Marine AI didn't just have the level design on its side, it had crude hit-point topups in the higher difficulties that Half-Life 2 simply doesn't have. The combine AI isn't an improvement, but it was never exactly a downgrade either, and its fatal flaws have never been quite as bad as the Marine AI's grenade-related Alzheimer's.

 

[Darkside55]

Marine AI isn't perfect, but it's a sight better than "I am going to stand here and shoot you. Now you shoot me. Beep beep beeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeep."

You are at least able to make the claim that the marines who sat on their grenades were trying to suicide bomb you, by way of in-game explanations. Conversely, I have seen people claim "The Combine had fear removed from them so they don't need to take cover." One of these at least LOOKS cooler than the other.

 

[VirusType2]

The AI was more than adequate for a game that runs well on a Pentium III with a PCI graphics card.

 

[Viperidae]

I think a better point to make is that HL1 made people reconsider how to do AI in games, while HL2 made people reconsider how great HL1 AI was.

 

[Barnz]

HL2's AI is great, there's simply not enough room/area for NPCs to show it - try spawning a soldier in a map without nodes, and see how they can move without any problems.

 

[SpotEnemyBoats]

I found that one of HL2's easiest ''puzzles''

Easily.

I'm not saying its hard, I am saying it takes a while to do... kind of like with the cement bricks with the board, it just takes patience, especially if you've played the game a long while because you just want to get to the awesome parts.

 

[Sparta]

No - most of Halo's level design is good. A few poor sections let stick in the memory though.

You post this to make people's heads explode don't you?

A game that makes you backtrack the entire game once it reaches the halfway point, 3-4 hours into it, is not good level design by any means.

Also, The Library, The Library, for the love of god, The Library.

HL2 was good for its time (well, actually it was pretty ****ing amazing) but it hasn't aged as well as you'd expect for a game rated so highly by so many publications. This is almost entirely due to Valve supposedly telling the A.I. to stand still for longer so you could use the Gravity Gun on them.

Now-a-days most games with gravity guns/telekinesis allow you to SEE through the object you're holding to make it easier. This is much better.

Also, graphically the game feels so sparse and empty in comparison to everything else now-a-days and even back then as well. Oddly enough, the same can't be said for any other Valve game since then.

 

[Darkside55]

Now-a-days most games with gravity guns/telekinesis allow you to SEE through the object you're holding to make it easier. This is much better.

It's not like it was hard to throw things at people with the grav gun because you couldn't see through the object, even if they're not standing still. HL2DM is proof of that, where certain objects will obscure 80% of your vision. Anyway, unless your character has x-ray vision, it isn't better.

 

[Saturos]

anyway... That top 200 list didn't include Golden Sun or Banjo Kazooie. It is now void.

^This

 

[Warbie]

A game that makes you backtrack the entire game once it reaches the halfway point

Bit of an exageration

The library level was crap, no denying it, and there was some backtracking, but nearly every area offered a good arena to fight in - the interior design in Halo borrows much from Quake style dm arenas. The focus is on gunplay and in this respect the level design is good. Now take HL2 - a wonderfully varied gameworld often let down by boring combat that can be blamed as much on the poor ai as the uninteresting areas you have to fight in.

So pick your poison. Awful copy and paste design or an enviromnet that allows for decent combat:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xF5j_4DHStg&feature=PlayList&p=66F4563499BE23E4&index=20

 

[Sulkdodds]

Halo's level design was fine because it was explicitly gamey, directed at combat. At bottom the game wasn't about environment in the same way HL2 is. Past a certain extent, criticising it for its maps is like criticising a Brecht play for having bad set design.
EDIT: And anyway it did manage to be atmospheric and stuff.

 

[kupocake]

So pick your poison. Awful copy and paste design or an enviromnet that allows for decent combat:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xF5j_4DHStg&feature=PlayList&p=66F4563499BE23E4&index=20

In the first 1 and half minutes of this video, the player is forced to spam a legion of enemies trying to get through a single door. The rest of this level features a room you enter at least ten times even before you revisit it in a later chapter.

What on earth are you talking about?

edit: As usual, I do actually kind of agree with you. I just never pass up a good chance to get rowdy over a bad example

Past a certain extent, criticising it for its maps is like criticising a Brecht play for having bad set design.

Oh I get it now.

Oh-ho! You silly things!

 

[Warbie]

In the first 1 and half minutes of this video, the player is forced to spam a legion of enemies trying to get through a single door.

Not my fault the guy playing it has no flair

 

[Planetary]

So that list apparently puts Thief at number 160.

I'd post an appropriate macro but I don't think I'll even bother!

 

[Calerules123]

I'm not very fond of top ## lists either. But like most people, I have my own list.

1.Half-Life 2(Because it capitalized on nearly every flaw of the first one. It's DAMN good.)
2. Goldeneye 007(Major benchmark in console FPS)
3. The Legend Of Zelda:Ocarina Of Time( Due to the fact that it's just plain epic)
4. Metal Gear Solid 2:Sons of Liberty(I had something good to play while thinking of HL2)
5. Half-Life(Must I explain?)
6. Grand Theft Auto IV( Probably my favourite game in the last 4 years)
7. Final Fantasy VII ( Extremely emotional game)
8. Bioshock ( Extremely intriguing game that I believe redefined the word "gritty".)
9. Doom (Possibly one of the most innovative games of all time.)
10. Resident Evil 4 ( My favourite game out of my favourite childhood franchise)