Have you ever paid for games?

[Asuka]

I buy all my games. Spent around $1,428.82 on games. http://users.ign.com/collection/Raziel-Jcd?showAsOthersSeeIt=1&objType=1

I dont even have 1/4th the playstation games listed there.

 

[Idn]

So yeah, in the end, while you fighting your imaginary "EVIL" in your head, by downloading games, tons of people will lose their job in the end, and we, PC gamers, will be left with dead market, and forced to move on consoles. So yeah, grow the hell up and stop acting like rebellious teen. There are tons of other ways to fight evil, how about creating your own publishing company and giving the fair share to developers?

But *I* (as in 'we') would not buy the game, even if it weren't available to download. People who want and buy games will still buy them, regardless of the possibility of 'downloading instead'. They say that the opportunity makes the thief, but in the real world people who download games because of their stupidity/laziness/rebellious nature (eg. those, who would buy games if they weren't warezed) are marginal. Those tens of thousands are simply amateurs of free 'joyrides', not interested in buying anything. Inquire for yourself.

 

[-TaNaKa-]

I buy sometimes games for my ps2. Games like Final Fantasy mostly, great replay value and frickin one of the best RPG games out there

 

[Farrowlesparrow]

.I say it is much more sophisticated mechanism than your gooey brains could *ever* apprehend

Ok I've stopped laughing now...

Saying that you wouldn't byuy the game anyway, and that therefore equates to them losing nothing is not a good argument in the slightest. I don't know where exactly, but at some point in your brain there is a broken logic gate.

You say comparing the stealing of a car to the stealing of a game is wrong, but so is that of the painter you mentioned. Take Valve, they have litterally invested millions into the devlopment of Hl2. If no one were to buy it, then they would make a massive loss. Now then, if nobody got the game at all,f air enough, no one wanted it. But if people were to download it, then they would in effect be taking that 20 million from Valves hands and saying "Sorry, I just want to have fun and I don't feel like paying for it."


There ain't no free lunch in this world...

 

[Javert]

I've only bought 1-2 games.


I play CS/DoD/TFC/AA/ET/NS everytime else.

 

[Idn]

If you don't want to pay for it you don't deserve to get it for free.

Tell me, where have I denied that? It's true. Purpose of my first post was different, read the last paragraph again please.

1. You are saying that everyone who downloads a game does so because he wants to be entertained and not to avoid spending the £35 (or equivalent) on a game? While this true in some cases ("I'll play this game for something to do"), a lot of people on these very forums have used the arguments "I can't afford it" or "I don't want to spend £35 on a game, I can pay for something else with that money".

These also mean 'I wouldn't buy it anyway'. How, if he can't afford it? Or if he has better things to do with his money?

2. There will be people who take something for nothing. If you are claiming that everyone who downloads a game will also buy the game, you are mistaken.

I am not claiming this.

A lot of people already take things for nothing (you just have to see any news of a burglar to know that is true) so it stands to reason that most people who download a game won't pay for it.

Yes, and they would not pay even if they did not download it.

If you ask me to provide conclusive proof that a majority of people who download games don'tthis is so, please provide proof that people who download games also buy them.

I won't ask. Yet some people buy the games they download. It is a minority though.

3. It may not be stealing in your strict definition of the word, but you seem to be unaware about why stealing is wrong. You seem to know stealing is wrong, but believe stealing is wrong just because it is stealing. Why is it bad to physically take something from someone? Because they lose something, they end up with less than they had. They worked to get something and you didn't. But also, you got something for nothing.

You didn't quite catch me. Warez *is* wrong. But it is not *the same* wrong as in hit'n run case or armed robbery or grand theft auto syndicate actions. And majority of users here make it sound that way. Constant comparing to car theft is an excellent example, and I aim at correcting this . Also, I want to indicate, that warez is not harming gaming industry, at least not to an extent the media and public opinion indicate. Companies do not go bankrupt because of warez, it is much more complicated than that.

Now, look at an example, a maid. If I hire a maid to clean my room and she does so, I could turn round to her and say "No, I don't want to pay you". The maid has spent very little money cleaning my room, but not lost anything, but it is still morally wrong. She still didn't get money for her services and she didn't lose anything but you still gained something. Whilst she didn't lose anything physical, she still lost her time and effort. Now she could now not have money to pay the bills or whatever. This is equivalent to stealing even though she has lost nothing. It's still in the moral ground as stealing.

Of course it is not moral. But I'd like to point a small inconsistency - maid lost her time and effort because of the dishonest employer, but game programmers do not. That's one difference between hand-crafting and mass production.

 

[Mr.Reak]

So what exactly is your point? That game pirating is not that big of a deal? Industry loses millions of dollars every year because of it. As I said, that’s why we see many PC developers moving away from .. well PC. Sure it’s not as simple and there are other tons of reason, but thinking that pirating doesn’t affect industry is just being plain silly.

 

[Idn]

But if people were to download it, then they would in effect be taking that 20 million from Valves hands and saying "Sorry, I just want to have fun and I don't feel like paying for it."

But there are honest consumers who understand that they should pay the producer and - following their moral ways - they buy a game. Those who are dishonest however - download it. You are forgetting about the rule of cause and effect - it is not because pirate copies exist that people download them, they exist because people are dishonest and not the other way around.

 

[Sai]

P.S. Yes Sai, Black Isle studios... :/

well, black isle didn't really go out of buisness becuase of piracy. Interplay kind of just screwed them over, like interplay was facing bankrupcy and they just let black isle go.

well, there's still hope for the fantastic guys at black isle, i mean we got obsidian right?
i'd trust them more with kotor2 then bioware, IMO

 

[Mr.Reak]

well, black isle didn't really go out of buisness becuase of piracy. Interplay kind of just screwed them over, like interplay was facing bankrupcy and they just let black isle go.

well, there's still hope for the fantastic guys at black isle, i mean we got obsidian right?
i'd trust them more with kotor2 then bioware, IMO

While this is true, their games weren’t big sellers either. Also of course it’s not only pirates fault, Interplay had poor marketing department, but still, I feel guilty for downloading their games.

I am glad Obsidian is here, Chris is writting story to Kotor 2. I mean the guy did Torment!

 

[blahblahblah]

But there are honest consumers who understand that they should pay the producer and - following their moral ways - they buy a game. Those who are dishonest however - download it. You are forgetting about the rule of cause and effect - it is not because pirate copies exist that people download them, they exist because people are dishonest and not the other way around.

You are absolutely wrong in your thinking. I could spend all day trashing your 'arguments' but I don't want to waste my time.

I will reply to this because it is a relatively short reply.

You logic is saying that people pirate because they are dishonest. If you get rid of the warez scene they no longer can be dishonest. Therefore you can say that getting rid of the warez scene would increase game sales because they have no way to illegally obtain a piece of software.

 

[nicrd]

wow ! IdN you are really smarter than us. I wont deny the fact that you having a bigger intellect than all of us.

but there is a problem with your argumentation. You see, you assume that people who download games would not buy them if they could not get it for free. Everything you say about warez not being theft is based on this assumption. This means that your conclusion is nothing but your own assumption and it is not the truth.

It seems pretty illogical to assume that people who download warez would not buy games otherwise. Ok, maybe not everybody would have bought the game if they could not download it, but quite a few would have.

 

[Sai]

I am glad Obsidian is here, Chris is writting story to Kotor 2. I mean the guy did Torment!

wait, you're kidding right???

that's the best news i've ever heard since belthesda buying fallout3, yea torment had the most originall story of any rpg ever made, and now kotor2 will have it's writer, i can't see any reason as to why this game won't excede its predecessor

 

[kingthebadger]

idn is getting pissed off, leave him alone.. hes probably a kid

 

[Idn]

You logic is saying that people pirate because they are dishonest. If you get rid of the warez scene they no longer can be dishonest. Therefore you can say that getting rid of the warez scene would increase game sales because they have no way to illegally obtain a piece of software.

You are turning it inside out. There will ALWAYS be a warez scene as long as people are dishonest. It just might go deeper into the underground. But that does not mean that people who previously warezed games and did not own a single original copy will suddenly turn into honest game-buying customers.

but there is a problem with your argumentation. You see, you assume that people who download games would not buy them if they could not get it for free. Everything you say about warez not being theft is based on this assumption. This means that your conclusion is nothing but your own assumption and it is not the truth.

It seems pretty illogical to assume that people who download warez would not buy games otherwise. Ok, maybe not everybody would have bought the game if they could not download it, but quite a few would have.

You just hit the spot . And industry/media/statistics ASSUME that *everyone* who warezes will buy legitimate games if he stops warezing, which is equally 'true'. The difference is, their statistics are based on synthetical assumptions and I am organic. :]

So what exactly is your point? That game pirating is not that big of a deal? Industry loses millions of dollars every year because of it. As I said, that’s why we see many PC developers moving away from .. well PC. Sure it’s not as simple and there are other tons of reason, but thinking that pirating doesn’t affect industry is just being plain silly.

It does, but by a relatively small factor. What is mainly at loss here is the control over the market and marketing. It doesn't exactly exchange straight to money, so if industry would say 'we're losing control' no one would bother. But if they relate it to money and say: 'we're losing millions because of piracy' suddenly everyone pays attention. Companies' paper loses all incorporate a desing flaw - they always assume that everyone who does not buy the game but downloads it is a so called prospective customer. Normally companies lose these millions to another companies, then the fight over the customer begins and the one who wins loses the least because the loser's customers wil most likely migrate and become the winner's customers. That's perfectly normal. But companies cannot fight with a company which does not exist, thus all the commotion. They assume correctly, that their enemy is illegal, yet still, they assume falsely that they can actually defeat it and/or take its 'customers'. Well, it's not entirely false, but this definition should suffice for thread's needs. And my point is - media/public opinion/this forum's majority paint everything in black and white, which isn't necessarily true. I do not propagate warez and I don't condemn industry. It's just that people should open their eyes once in a while and try to look at everything again from different perspectives and not just repeat the same sentences over and over again like some clockwork toys.

 

[blahblahblah]

idn is getting pissed off, leave him alone.. hes probably a kid

No. He needs to be shown that he is wrong.

IP is not something that is free for everyone to take.

 

[Idn]

idn is getting pissed off,

Am not .

leave him alone.. hes probably a kid

...and if I sound like a kid or strange, that may be because English is not my native language. give me some credit there.

 

[blahblahblah]

Idn - Couple of pointers

1) Stop using big words. If you do, make sure you use them in the right context. It is really starting to bug me.
2) Learn about IP.
3) Actually learn about business. Its funny when somebody who knows nothing about business starts to make assumptions about it.

Facts

1) Not everybody who pirates a game would have bought the game if warez didn't exist. However, there are people who pirate games right now would buy them if the warez scene didn't exist. That leads to more money to the game developers.
2) We are not programmed machines. It is evident from this thread that there are tons of different answers. Shades of grade if you will. If we were programmed, we would all have the same answer. It looks like you were programmed from the warez community.
3) IP is everything. Literally every business running today uses IP. IP provides a competitive advantage over other people. Not protecting IP will cause more harm than you think. Imagine what would happen if Carmack stopped creating his game engines because he can't make enough money from his IP.
4) IP is the same thing as physical property. You cannot seperate IP from a physical property. There is IP in everything, like the car you drive or the computer you are typing with. IP is like the matrix, it is everywhere but you can't seperate it from something.
5) You cite that game developers do not suffer. Every sale that is lost from somebody pirating a game hurts the developer. You want to know why there are so many sequels and unoriginal games? Its because the developers of original games do not earn enough money from them. Lost sales hurt them. Even though a game may cost $50, enough lost sales can quickly add up.
6) Just because people are dishonest, doesn't mean you should support/defend them. Why can't you make humanity better. Anyways, people are not complete thieves. If the warez scene was deeper underground, more people would buy the game then resort to more dangerous/illegal tactics for obtaining video games.

That's enough for now.

 

[Farrowlesparrow]

But there are honest consumers who understand that they should pay the producer and - following their moral ways - they buy a game. Those who are dishonest however - download it. You are forgetting about the rule of cause and effect - it is not because pirate copies exist that people download them, they exist because people are dishonest and not the other way around.

I never suggested people download the games because they exist to be downloaded, although perhaps that is why some people do. Just because there are dishonest people who make the market for such things, does not mean they should be allowed to do so. You seem to be moving along a different train of thought to me.
Although...And this sounds odd...I appreciate your way of arguing, it is at least, forthcoming.

 

[Baal]

I do downloaded a fair bit...but only because games are so short now-a-days...Like Max Payne and Max Payne 2.

But I have bought a lot of games in my day...

Tons of N64, and some Ps2 games, eventually some game cube games too.

Also I've bought: Half-Life, Opposing Force, Team Fortress Classic, Counter-Strike (I bought the Platinum Pack, which was dumb, but at the time I didn't know any better, but you get more cd-keys this way) and Blue Shift. Also I bought Far Cry and UT2004, as well as Diablo II and D2: LOD. Need For Speed Underground, and last but not least, Combat Flight Simulator 1 and 2. Well, maybe least, but oh well.

 

[Sui]

Oh my god, this thread is a battlezone of opinions.

IMO, im siding with farrowlesparrow. just because developers arent skilled wnough or sont have enough man labour / money to make a perfect game, it doesnt mean you should download it. I belive that any form of downloading pirated games is selfish, arrogant and immature. If you like games you should pay for them like every damn one of us.

Looking ove at my shelf, i currently have 21 top selling PC games, 7 budget PC games, 10 top selling gamecube games, 5 game boy advance games, 10 normal DVDs, and 5 DVD boxed sets.
Looking back over the years i estimate i have owned at least 10 megadrive games, 10 gameboy/ gameboy color games, 15-20 playstation games, 15-20 PS2 games, and at least 10 PC games that i dont have anymore. All of these listed would have been bought new, i rarely buy second hand games.

lets just say that each of these games listed were 20 quid (this balances out the cheap and the expensive) and it would have cost me rougly £2,240. i get about £10 a week (as i am only a student) and about £100-150 for each birthday /chirstmas (presuming i dont get any presents). this means i would get about £700-800 a year. Therefore i have spent about 3 years solid of my money on computer games. oh, and lets not forget that i have bought a PS1, PS2, GC, GBC/GBA (megadrive and my PC dont count as my parents bought them for me). presuming each was about £100, that means i have spent at least £400-£500 on consoles- on top of games.


and to think that some selfish arse has downloaded every game he has ever owned, that really pisses me off.
(and yes, i am sad, i spend most of my money on games and DVDs )

 

[Farrowlesparrow]

Do you also have a partridge in a pear tree Suicide? :O

There is something satisfying about paying for something with money you have earned...Ok, most people think that is a cliche but its true. When I bought my PS2, it was the first expensive thing I had bought with money I had actually worked for. I remember sitting in the car home feeling really good about things, and I even said to my mum how it made me feel really great knowing that I had truely earned this.

 

[Sui]

Do you also have a partridge in a pear tree Suicide? :O

There is something satisfying about paying for something with money you have earned...Ok, most people think that is a cliche but its true. When I bought my PS2, it was the first expensive thing I had bought with money I had actually worked for. I remember sitting in the car home feeling really good about things, and I even said to my mum how it made me feel really great knowing that I had truely earned this.

i know how you feel, i love the wonderful feeling of coming home with a full price game, and opening the mint condition case with a sparkling new manual. Not only do i have lots of games, but i also make sure i keep them in tip-top conditions. i allways keep my games on the rack, and never leave CDs in the open. i am very proud of my Theif 3 CD, it litterally is spotless hard with all my freinds coming round and messing up my CDs though.. :hmph:

and when i came home with my PS2 for the first time, i set it up in the living room and just stared at it for like 5 minutes. then i played my first game (i think it was GTA3) and a\ huge smile came across my face

 

[HatRabit]

honestly, I cant understand people who defend warez. if you can afford a 1500$ gaming pc you afford a 50 or 60 dollar game. lots of companies put 2-4 years into their games only to get crap sales because everone downloads them.

people like Idn make the world a worse place to live ;(

 

[Sui]

sorry, i didnt read the entire thread at first.

i just did.

i would just like to tell Idn that he should stop posting in this thread before he just makes it even worse for himself

(farrowlesparrow... more like a couple hundred logic gates missing )

 

[Idn]

U

1) Stop using big words. If you do, make sure you use them in the right context. It is really starting to bug me.

Ok, I'll try. I really haven't had much of a chance to learn (and practice) spoken and/or colloquial English, just old fashioned literary forms. :/

2) Learn about IP.

I don't know everything but I think I know enough to use this knowledge in a discussion.

3) Actually learn about business. Its funny when somebody who knows nothing about business starts to make assumptions about it.

I only admit to exaggerating, like in my first post. I think it's a fine way of drawing attention (until I master my English). I see it bugs you, but as of now I don't really feel 'stable' using simple words.

1) Not everybody who pirates a game would have bought the game if warez didn't exist. However, there are people who pirate games right now would buy them if the warez scene didn't exist. That leads to more money to the game developers.

Somehow I don't think it would prevent the bankruptcy of certain companies. Surely, it would be more money for the devs, but compared to money they get anyway it wouldn't be *that* much more.
However, I must admit that I just discovered a severe flaw in my argument - I didn't take into account that i live in Europe and I know little to nothing about gamers in US - ergo - the majority of gamers. I must admit now that my assumptions were a bit rash. But hey - I'm learning from it now.

2) We are not programmed machines. It is evident from this thread that there are tons of different answers. Shades of grade if you will. If we were programmed, we would all have the same answer. It looks like you were programmed from the warez community.

I wonder what is that Doom 3 pre-order confirmation doing in my mailbox then. I simply like to take different points of view in discussion, that's my way of learning. And by 'you', which I underscored by admitting to exaggerating, I meant those who compare cars and games etc., not literally 'everyone but me'. I'm sorry if my writing is confusing, maybe it's that my English isn't good enough for this kind of discussion yet.

3) IP is everything. Literally every business running today uses IP. IP provides a competitive advantage over other people. Not protecting IP will cause more harm than you think. Imagine what would happen if Carmack stopped creating his game engines because he can't make enough money from his IP.

Fortunately, he does. And that point I know.

4) IP is the same thing as physical property. You cannot seperate IP from a physical property. There is IP in everything, like the car you drive or the computer you are typing with. IP is like the matrix, it is everywhere but you can't seperate it from something.

And that indivisibility is exactly why I say that stealing IP is different from stealing PP.

5) You cite that game developers do not suffer. Every sale that is lost from somebody pirating a game hurts the developer. You want to know why there are so many sequels and unoriginal games? Its because the developers of original games do not earn enough money from them. Lost sales hurt them. Even though a game may cost $50, enough lost sales can quickly add up.

If that was true for truly good games, then gaming industry would be doomed.

6) Just because people are dishonest, doesn't mean you should support/defend them. Why can't you make humanity better. Anyways, people are not complete thieves. If the warez scene was deeper underground, more people would buy the game then resort to more dangerous/illegal tactics for obtaining video games.

I do not support/defend them, i just bring up the mechanisms of cause and effect, because it's just not true, that people are warezing because there is a warez scene. It's like saying: 'people are playing music because there are music instruments'. 'Opportunity makes the thief' (which I've quoted already) doesn't necessarily relate to *the most* of warezing gamers. And fighting the scene is fighting the effects. And no, I don't know how to fight causes.

That's enough for now.

Thanks for a normal discussion and arguments, i feel like I was responded. :]

 

[Farrowlesparrow]

I don't know who said people are doing it because it exists, but thats not the point we are trying to make. We are saying it should stop, not why it happens or who causes it.

You are right though that fighting the scene merely fights the effects, however that is again not the point in question. We are simply saying that it is something wrong.

 

[Idn]

You are right though that fighting the scene merely fights the effects, however that is again not the point in question. We are simply saying that it is something wrong.

Huh. I thought I said the same thing, just with a different accent. :/

 

[Mr. Redundant]

Need For Speed Underground,

speaking of which, I just played it for the first time yesterday on Xbox.
man what a blast.

 

[Fat Tony!]

Warez! naughty boy! Go back to your hole. Music is ok to steal but not games.

 

[Texter]

Ok, I'll try. I really haven't had much of a chance to learn (and practice) spoken and/or colloquial English, just old fashioned literary forms. :/
I don't know everything but I think I know enough to use this knowledge in a discussion.
I only admit to exaggerating, like in my first post. I think it's a fine way of drawing attention (until I master my English). I see it bugs you, but as of now I don't really feel 'stable' using simple words.

Thanks for a normal discussion and arguments, i feel like I was responded. :]

I told you, you would get pooped on...to me you post like someone who has been kicked out of this/another forum or even several fora because of annoying habits, but still needs the attention badly. Either that or you simply started out on the wrong foot as a fool. Also I don't see how a purposedly lacking grasp of english language should account for an obvious lack of knowledge in the field of law and economics, the reason why I didn't even bother to comment on those remarks you made. Call me childish for reacting the way I did, but that first post, as it seemed to me, was simply a poor attempt at uttering feelings of superiority over other forum members who you can't know that well, with that being your first post and all. Hence the banned member allegation. Generalisation is a bad habit, I know...just don't try to prolong arguments for the sake of the argument, although you may be itching right now. The result of what's called provocation.

BTW...about 90 bought games here vs. an equal lot of illegal ones :bounce:

 

[blahblahblah]

5) You cite that game developers do not suffer. Every sale that is lost from somebody pirating a game hurts the developer. You want to know why there are so many sequels and unoriginal games? Its because the developers of original games do not earn enough money from them. Lost sales hurt them. Even though a game may cost $50, enough lost sales can quickly add up.

If that was true for truly good games, then gaming industry would be doomed.

The PC gaming industry has declined 14% in 2003 alone. That is a significant decrease. Even if 10% of pirates actually bought the games, I bet PC gaming would actually start growing than continue its current trend of shrinking.

Source

 

[kingthebadger]

Ok, I'll try. I really haven't had much of a chance to learn (and practice) spoken and/or colloquial English, just old fashioned literary forms. :/
I don't know everything but I think I know enough to use this knowledge in a discussion.
I only admit to exaggerating, like in my first post. I think it's a fine way of drawing attention (until I master my English). I see it bugs you, but as of now I don't really feel 'stable' using simple words.

Somehow I don't think it would prevent the bankruptcy of certain companies. Surely, it would be more money for the devs, but compared to money they get anyway it wouldn't be *that* much more.
However, I must admit that I just discovered a severe flaw in my argument - I didn't take into account that i live in Europe and I know little to nothing about gamers in US - ergo - the majority of gamers. I must admit now that my assumptions were a bit rash. But hey - I'm learning from it now.
I wonder what is that Doom 3 pre-order confirmation doing in my mailbox then. I simply like to take different points of view in discussion, that's my way of learning. And by 'you', which I underscored by admitting to exaggerating, I meant those who compare cars and games etc., not literally 'everyone but me'. I'm sorry if my writing is confusing, maybe it's that my English isn't good enough for this kind of discussion yet.
Fortunately, he does. And that point I know.
And that indivisibility is exactly why I say that stealing IP is different from stealing PP.
If that was true for truly good games, then gaming industry would be doomed.
I do not support/defend them, i just bring up the mechanisms of cause and effect, because it's just not true, that people are warezing because there is a warez scene. It's like saying: 'people are playing music because there are music instruments'. 'Opportunity makes the thief' (which I've quoted already) doesn't necessarily relate to *the most* of warezing gamers. And fighting the scene is fighting the effects. And no, I don't know how to fight causes.


Thanks for a normal discussion and arguments, i feel like I was responded. :]

blahblahblah i dont think this guy really likes you, nor do you like him =) i gather you already know this, but i felt like pointing it out

 

[john121]

i've bought 95% of all my games, (do ROMS for the NES count as d/ling a game?) the only reason why i've downloaded ROMS is because i couldn't buy them anywhere, and i have already bought them once in the 80's. In fact, i've been pleased with most games i've bought, except for Fighting Force, only cuz i beat it the first day i bought it. As far as Half Life goes, bought it twice cuz my father broke the first CD but i feel valve deserved my money for what they have and keep doing for our community. We have paid them back as well, helping them catch the guys who stole the code.

 

[Idn]

*Sigh*, you did not understand me after all.
Maybe this clears up - http://www.canstats.org/readdetail.asp?id=678, as this is what I wanted to say. Nothing more, nothing less. And I brought up the issue of my indecent English because you accused me of things I have not said nor meant to say. I have never said that warez was good (I only said it was *different* from a physical theft, nothing about it being better or lesser evil) nor did I support piracy. How can, for example, HatRabbit accuse me of defending warez? Or even accuse me of being a software pirate knowing nothing about me? (and my collection of original games for that matter) And FatTony? My first post came to be not because I think that people who embark on their holy crusades against warez should stop, but because I think backing themselves up with clearly exaggerated data (which is that stupid car-game comparison for example) is, like, stupid. Between black and white are many shades of grey. I did hyperbolise too, and now I see that was not a good idea.
I must confess that I don't care about the result of this discussion and whether I'm right or wrong is not the case. This was my proving grounds, so I could see if people would understand me, and in this I have failed.
And, FYI, I did not come from another forum where they didn't want me, this is my first trial.

 

[Texter]

This was my proving grounds, so I could see if people would understand me, and in this I have failed.

You're pretty full of yourself, that's the problem. Trying to adapt to a community is a little more useful than trying to be different, because you're not that different from a lot of people here who know how to behave themselves but share the same mental capacity and maybe even more.
Also...you should simply accept the fact that having Intellectual Property is exactly the same thing as owning a car, whatever opinion on the system you might have. It's the law, nothing more, nothing less. People with IP have to get paid when someone uses it without their consent just like someone whose car gets taken. And your painting/photocopy comparison doesn't make it either. Someone who downloads a game gets an EXACT copy of the game...except for the no-cd/keygenerator, that is. With all the pros and without the con of having less money to buy drinks for your friends. Smell the paint...

 

[DanceMag]

omg, Idn i didn't understand a word you said... please don't post again, its pretty useless when we can't understand any of ur engrish

 

[Razor]

I would have to agree on Fallowsparrow here, and to me, anyone who downloads their computer games has no right to call themselves a gamer. They are just pathetic.