Healthcare Poll

[lord_raken]

The argument boiled down, **** the poor. Seeing you crippled will be delightful

Meanwhile you're getting your healthcare off of some rich dude who worked his ass off to make that money and now has to give up a disproportionate amount of his income because the the poor guys thinks its not fair. Well tough luck. The world isn't fair.

AHAHAHAHAHAH!

 

[Stigmata]

It's hardly disproportionate. If anything, what's disproportionate is how much said rich dude makes in comparison to everyone else on a lower rung of the ladder. The top 10% have 90% of the money. Think about that. Look at how much work has to be done by so many people just to keep the streets clean, just to keep hospitals from collapsing under the workload. Look at how many people have to work harder than a CEO ever will. Some janitor has to work ten times harder than the CEO, because his job isn't safe, because there are fifteen equally-qualified people waiting for him to slip up once and get fired. The CEO doesn't get to feel that fear. He gets to sit in his chair, secure in the knowledge that, being at the top of the chain, he can delegate away his responsibility for almost any ****up, because he's the CEO, and everyone's already bought into his image.

 

[CptStern]

Meanwhile you're getting your healthcare off of some rich dude who worked his ass off to make that money and now has to give up a disproportionate amount of his income because the the poor guys thinks its not fair. Well tough luck. The world isn't fair.

AHAHAHAHAHAH!

boo****inghoo. I'm sure you'll stop paying taxes altogether because you're funding some poor schlebs education right from your own wallet: every last american is doing thr same thing but where's the calls of "OMG SOCIALISM!!" where's the outrage that some poor rich guy is funding someone's education? you certainly dont see to care that your taxes are being used to bomb the living shit out people half way across the world and whne the bombing has stopped you give them FREE healthcare for being in the worng place at the wrong time. stop being a pussy and drop out of society altogether because at some point your hard earned dollars might be used in a way you might not approve of.



you people are out to ****ing lunch

 

[nurizeko]

I'm not a big fan of large changes and I believe baby steps are a good way of treading new water when it comes down to trying something drastic

While I agree with this point on a fundamental level, I think the fact that the rest of the civilized world has some form of public healthcare provision and there are poorer countries with higher healthcare rankings mean that the US shouldn't be afraid to try this particular new thing.

Healthier longer living Americans are good. The longer and healthier they live the more they provide to the economy and taxes.

Plus in the UK, despite all our other jaded opinions of the social contract it's nice to know one thing in our government is based on common human compassion in principle.

 

[Krynn72]

The world isn't fair.

If this is your excuse to not help other people, then you are not a moral person. You should turn to atheism and find some moral standing, because clearly god has not made you a decent human being.

 

[Stigmata]

"Nature is cruel... but we don't have to be."

 

[Dan]

It's hardly disproportionate. If anything, what's disproportionate is how much said rich dude makes in comparison to everyone else on a lower rung of the ladder. The top 10% have 90% of the money. Think about that. Look at how much work has to be done by so many people just to keep the streets clean, just to keep hospitals from collapsing under the workload. Look at how many people have to work harder than a CEO ever will. Some janitor has to work ten times harder than the CEO, because his job isn't safe, because there are fifteen equally-qualified people waiting for him to slip up once and get fired. The CEO doesn't get to feel that fear. He gets to sit in his chair, secure in the knowledge that, being at the top of the chain, he can delegate away his responsibility for almost any ****up, because he's the CEO, and everyone's already bought into his image.

the 10%-90% stat is kind of deceptive. It has to be some split between 50%-50% being completely uniform unnatural distribution and 1%-99% being a very lopsided unnatural distribution. Random systems tend towards 20%-80%, so if there is some natural distribution of money making desire or ability within humanity, 10%-90% seems perfectly normal.

 

[Stigmata]

It's normal, but it's not right. Kna'mean?

 

[MFL]

What would the effects be if taxes were collected based solely off of percentage of income and there were no deductibles and everyone who did not pay taxes did not receive citizenship benefits and if you were caught with any form of tax evasion you would be put to death?

 

[Stigmata]

Probably a mass exodus of the Fortune 500.

 

[CptStern]

glenn beck has his say on the matter:

No, I got news for ya, and I want to thank the progressives. Thank you, Jesus, for this miracle. Because this is not a message that is just going to go to the Democratic Party. Oh, no, my friends. This is going to be a message that is going to go to the progressives of any party. John McCain, Lindsey Graham, get the hell out of the way. Get your hands off of the Constitution, my friend, because we're coming. We're coming and we are coming â??â?? see, you know what? The people who have won, the people who have all of this, they are the people that have been looking for the handouts. They are the people who are saying, "Oh, I can't do it on my own." Look out, brother, because America's about to roll up her sleeves. We're rolling up our sleeves. The people who actually work our ass off for a living, we got nothing else better to do now than save our country. Oh, sure, we have our families, we have our jobs, we have our business. But you know what? There seems to be an enemy of our family, our jobs, our schools, our business, our healthcare, our country. So you know what? We're going to put everything else on hold and we're going to do some oldâ??fashioned assâ??kicking come November. So bring it on, progressives. Bring it on! Because you've just woken a sleeping giant. And while all of your buddies, all of your army is standing in line going, "I'd like more, please, please help me out, please, I'd like more, I don't have enough, I can't do it on our own," oh, we can. We can do it as individuals, we can do it as a group. We believe in the power of the individual. We believe in the power of entrepreneurial spirit. We believe in the power of our own mind! We believe we can kick your ass down the street! You need somebody else. We don't. Your bucket's about to have a hole in it and you ain't gonna buy no beer. 'Cause we ain't gonna pay for it very, very soon.

why the hell hasnt someone stabbed him already?

 

[Stigmata]

"I believe in the power of the individual" = "I don't understand statistics".

 

[CptStern]

facebook status updates from disgruntled conservatives:

Laura IS SO PISSED THAT THE HEALTH CARE BILL PASSED!!!! I really don't want to give any more of my money to lazy Americans on food stamps. Here's an idea for you....get off your ass and pay for your own food so I don't have to!! I am no longer an Obama fan and will not be voting for him in the next election!! FU OBAMA!!!!


Tabitha had a weird dream last night in which the people actually had a say in what happened to their nation.


Kevin said.... All good things come to an end. With the passage of obamacare today and the subjugation of 1/6 of the economy, entrepreneurism is dead, Greece-ification is here. The mediocrity among nations and peoples that Obama seeks is coming to pass. May God help us, short of the Russians or Chinese no one else can save us from the evil working against the will and benefit of the poeple for their own twisted purposes.


To my borthers and sisters that are on line with face book. My son has just told me that the Health Care Reform Bill has been past. Mark this day down as the day The United States of America has seen the communist take over the our Goverment. I call on you to take steps to guard your families and those that you care about. DO NOT joine those that will riat and cause the police to come down on us.


Alyssa-My GOD is bigger than any healthcare bill. My GOD is bigger than Obama. My GOD is bigger than this blind country. My GOD Is bigger than this world filled with chaos. MY GOD Is the greatest and HE is in control.

 

[staticprimer]

Guys, I just looked out the window to see if the sky was falling and oddly enough, it's still there.

 

[lord_raken]

If this is your excuse to not help other people, then you are not a moral person. You should turn to atheism and find some moral standing, because clearly god has not made you a decent human being.

You judge too quickly. I say life isn't fair... and it isn't. That's a hard fact. That doesn't mean I don't you think you shouldn't help you fellow man. Stop jumping to conclusions Evil Kenevil.

My family has helped a family escape from governmental persecution in the Democratic Republic of the Congo. It took two years and we are still helping them get established. Our whole church joined in after a while. They now have a house and are going to school.

So don't judge ok.

There are betters way to help people that letting the government do it for you. Just because I don't trust the government to use my money wisely (Example: wars, bankrupt social security, pork in EVERY bill congress passes, bridges to nowhere exe) doesn't mean I don't try to help my fellow man.

 

[VirusType2]

I can't wait till tomorrow when I can taste those delicious republican tears.

**** that - I can't wait to get injured.

 

[lord_raken]

Just a reminder... This bill has no public option.

 

[Sparta]

Which is a shame really.

 

[Eejit]

You judge too quickly. I say life isn't fair... and it isn't. That's a hard fact. That doesn't mean I don't you think you shouldn't help you fellow man. Stop jumping to conclusions Evil Kenevil.

He didn't. Note the operative word in his post, "if", and stop getting your panties in a twist so easily.

 

[lord_raken]

He didn't. Note the operative word in his post, "if", and stop getting your panties in a twist so easily.

Note my optimal placement of the laughing smiley face.

 

[CptStern]

I don't trust the government to use my money wisely (Example: wars, bankrupt social security, pork in EVERY bill congress passes, bridges to nowhere exe) doesn't mean I don't try to help my fellow man.

is this a joke? if not you no better than one of those conspiracy nuts that the FBI eventually has to smoke out of their compound or risk perishing in the flames.

also bridge to nowhere? do you have a specific example of bridge that was built that led to nowhere? what does "pork in every bill" mean?

 

[Eejit]

Note my optimal placement of the laughing smiley face.

Yes, laughing at him. Nice attempt at backpedalling.

 

[CptStern]

some of you need to read that a few times

 

[Krynn72]

You judge too quickly.

I think its fair to say that it is an insight into your personality when you say something like "tough shit, the world isnt fair" to someone who couldn't afford health care and using that as a justification as to why others should not help him.

There are betters way to help people that letting the government do it for you. Just because I don't trust the government to use my money wisely (Example: wars, bankrupt social security, pork in EVERY bill congress passes, bridges to nowhere exe)

So now that they're planning to use tax money on something helpful like keeping your fellow countrymen healthy, you're unwilling to pay for it?

 

[CptStern]

fellow countrymen sounds a little too much like "Comrade"

 

[lord_raken]

I think its fair to say that it is an insight into your personality when you say something like "tough shit, the world isnt fair" to someone who couldn't afford health care and using that as a justification as to why others should not help him.

So now that they're planning to use tax money on something helpful like keeping your fellow countrymen healthy, you're unwilling to pay for it?

The world isn't fair. That is the truth. It was not a dismissal but a simple statement of truth. It wasn't aimed at any one in particular.

What I'm saying is that even if it is slated for good things much of it will be lost, mishandled, or use inefficiently and there there is no point in pouring water into a leaky bucket until you plug the hole. Its wasteful. Fix the system, plug the holes and then we can talk.

 

[CptStern]

the sky is blue ..therefore I have a point

What I'm saying is that even if it is slated for good things much of it will be lost, mishandled, or use inefficiently and there there is no point in pouring water into a leaky bucket until you plug the hole. Its wasteful. Fix the system, plug the holes and then we can talk.

you seem to have a talent for seeing into the future because you continually think you know what's about to happen in the future. really you should stop arguing your pov because you're really bad at it. simply saying "because I said so" doesnt make it true. why are you having such a hard time understanding this?

 

[Stigmata]

The world isn't fair. That is the truth. It was not a dismissal but a simple statement of truth. It wasn't aimed at any one in particular.

What I'm saying is that even if it is slated for good things much of it will be lost, mishandled, or use inefficiently and there there is no point in pouring water into a leaky bucket until you plug the hole. Its wasteful. Fix the system, plug the holes and then we can talk.

Stop simplifying issues with witty remarks. "There is no point in pouring water into a leaky bucket" is you re-framing the whole argument as metaphorical, and that's pretty dangerous.

Fixing the system isn't easy. This bill is a tiny, incremental, but hugely important step in the right direction. It's incredibly shortsighted to say "well it's not perfect, so let's scrap it and try again in 10 years, it'll be better then." If you let 90% of the government fall to pieces waiting for your chance to fix the 10% that is "what's truly wrong", the government will be such a shitpile that nobody will want to put the effort in to fix it at all.

 

[Ridge]

is this a joke? if not you no better than one of those conspiracy nuts that the FBI eventually has to smoke out of their compound or risk perishing in the flames.

also bridge to nowhere? do you have a specific example of bridge that was built that led to nowhere? what does "pork in every bill" mean?

Alaska was building a bridge to an island that nobody lived on. Eventually the plan was dumped.

 

[CptStern]

Alaska was building a bridge to an island that nobody lived on. Eventually the plan was dumped.

seems to me like it led to somewhere

The Gravina Island Bridge, commonly referred to as the "Bridge to Nowhere", was a proposed bridge to replace the ferry that currently connects the town of Ketchikan, Alaska with Gravina Island, an island which contains the Ketchikan International Airport as well as 50 residents.


...the project's goal was to "provide better service to the airport and allow for development of large tracts of land on the island"

stop relying on talking points. especially when they bend the truth

 

[Ridge]

Here is something that will make you hate it. Palin ran it. Argument over.

 

[CptStern]

so did you. which is why I asked you to stop using talking points

 

[Ridge]

Please define what you mean. If I use "talking points" you harass me about it. If I go on about it, you say its just my opinion or interpretation, and harass me about that.

 

[Krynn72]

It's incredibly shortsighted to say "well it's not perfect, so let's scrap it"

This kind of mindset is incredibly obnoxious. Its the same way with environmental issues and voting. "well its not like my vote will make or break the election, so why bother doing anything at all?!" "Not like one person can save the planet, so why should I even bother trying?!"

Hate it.

 

[CptStern]

Please define what you mean. If I use "talking points" you harass me about it.

because you used talking points that were inaccurate or a misrepresentation of the truth

If I go on about it, you say its just my opinion or interpretation, and harass me about that.

I challenge your points yes. it's up to you to defend them or at least insure that they're accurate

 

[Absinthe]

stop relying on talking points. especially when they bend the truth

Dude, it was Sarah Palin's project. It was used as a talking point against her validity as a VP candidate during the election. In all truthfulness, it is a big waste of taxpayer money.

You asked for an example of wasteful spending. He cited a legit example and you dismissed it as a truth-bending "talking point" when it wasn't. Just wipe the egg off your face and get over it.

 

[CptStern]

you may have a point ..and you're still a faggit

 

[lord_raken]

Stop simplifying issues with witty remarks. "There is no point in pouring water into a leaky bucket" is you re-framing the whole argument as metaphorical, and that's pretty dangerous.

Fixing the system isn't easy. This bill is a tiny, incremental, but hugely important step in the right direction. It's incredibly shortsighted to say "well it's not perfect, so let's scrap it and try again in 10 years, it'll be better then." If you let 90% of the government fall to pieces waiting for your chance to fix the 10% that is "what's truly wrong", the government will be such a shitpile that nobody will want to put the effort in to fix it at all.

I'm not saying "wait." I'm saying lets spend the time need to make sure what we want to happen will happen. We need to review and assess the stability of exiting programs and simplify and fix any issues or money holes. Throwing more money at a broken system won't magically fix it. Do you invest in a company that's dropping in value?

Small steps in the right direction are still worth taking. Some of the regulations, like the one that prevents insurance companies from dropping people with preexisting conditions, are VERY good things.

But before pouring more money into a problem see if there are ways to make the system work BETTER and more efficient so the money that is already going into the system can be used more effectively. If you can solve the lack of funds issues by making the system more efficient then you don't have to raise taxes so much.

I want the government to start to fix the efficiency issues before they put more money into it. Its the responsible thing to do.

 

[No Limit]

I'm against this bill. Not because I hate americans, but because I think this is a huge give away to the insurance companies while screwing over millions of middle class americans that will be forced to buy insurance they can't afford but make too much to qualify for a subsidy.

 

[David.Seth2]

I'm against this bill. Not because I hate americans, but because I think this is a huge give away to the insurance companies while screwing over millions of middle class americans that will be forced to buy insurance they can't afford but make too much to qualify for a subsidy.

What do you mean by "huge give away to the insurance companies"? I'm not being sarcastic, I really don't know (since I haven't been up to date with all this health care stuff)