Help me build a computer!

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IonizeMyAtoms

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All right, my computer has finally kicked it, luckily I saw it coming, managed to back everything up the day before it died, and have been planning on getting a new one, as I`ll be getting a bunch of money soon. Now, while I used to know a lot about building my own computer, I seem to have lost all knowledge I had a few years ago. For now I just plan on buying a very barebones system. I have the case, sound card and video card all picked out, but I have no idea what kind of motherboard, CPU or RAM to get. I just want them to be able to handle the newest video cards and whatnot as I plan on going all out with this computer. Help me with all these sockets and PCI express slots and other stuff I seem to have forgotten all about! I need a new computer ASAP! Thanks!

Edited to add...

I guess I should mention what kind of GPU and sound card I have picked out. Well, I plan on buying a GeForce 8800 and a Creative Fatal1ty sound card. Oh and feel free to recommend a hard drive

Oh! And as for hard drives... what`s all this SCSI/S-ATA nonsense? I have no idea what I`m doing
 
I've heard that Fatality soundcard isn't really worth it. Then again I'm not up on anything that's less than four years old in the sound-system area, so I'm probably wrong :p

1) Wait on the 8800. ATI is releasing their dx10 card soon, and for all we know it could beat the 8800 for the same price. Besides which, buying a dx10 card now is kind of overkill, since no games really use dx10, and the extra performance (i.e. fps in the hundreds) isn't even noticeable (i.e. due to monitor refresh rates only reaching 60-85hz). If you're willing to wait, you could just buy a midrange card for $150 or so, let that tide you over until ATI's card comes out, then see whether ATI or Nvidia has the better card. Or buy a near-highend card (maybe a 7900 or an x1900xt), which will do perfectly fine until dx10 becomes more widespread and legitimately warrants the purchase of an 8800 or an r600. That might be the best route if you have a shit-ton of money :p

2) Go for an Asus P5B motherboard (the socket is LGA775) and a Core 2 Duo e6600. You can get a massive overclock with the stock cooling system on that setup.

3) I have no idea what SCSI is, I need to figure that out. SATA is short for Serial ATA, which basically means the connectors and cords are smaller (improving airflow), the bandwidth is higher (SATA allows for up to 1.5GB/s, SATA2 up to 3.0GB/s), and it allows for the connection of more devices than ATA did. It also gets rid of the master/slave dichotomy - one device, one SATA connection.

From there on, it's a bit of a wash. Core2Duo systems support up to DDR2-1066 memory, so getting that would be worth since you want a cutting-edge system. Pick up a good SATA2 hard drive, you can get 300GB+ drives for $100 or less (I got a 320GB drive back in August for $105 Canadian, works great). Make sure your mouse and keyboard are good (keyboards aren't that important, but I recomment the Logitech MX518 mouse, hasn't once let me down). Make sure your PSU is reliable - do some research, make sure the company doesn't have a history of PSUs burning themselves out, and futureproof your system by getting at LEAST 500W, more if you plan on using SLI/Crossfire.
 
Awesome! Thanks for the help, I think I will wait on the video card, as I actually have a Radeon x800 Pro in my current system so I plan on just throwing that in until I`m ready to make a big video card purchase.
 
SCSI and SATA are two methods of connecting hard drives to the motherboard. SCSI was predominant several years ago, but its been all but replaced by SATA. SATA is faster and no more expensive, so you should be looking for one of those. All worthwhile modern motherboards support SATA anyway.

For processors, Intel is king right now. You simply can't beat the cost/benefit ratio of their Core 2 Duo line. In addition, Intel is cutting the prices of this line significantly later this month, if you can hold out that long. A good bet would be the E6600. Right now it costs about $300, but after the price cut it will be around $200.

As for motherboards, pay close attention to the specifications. It has to have the same socket type as your processor, and it has to match the type of RAM you have. For example, the E6600 is socket LGA 775, so you need a motherboard with the same. Also, the motherboard is probably the one place where you shouldn't cut corners, as a poor quality motherboard and make your life a living nightmare. Stick with recognized names such as Intel, Asus, Abit, and Gigabyte. My preference is for Asus. They tend to be a bit more expensive, but they make arguably some of the best motherboards out there.

For RAM, really the only thing you need to know is the speed that your motherboard supports. If your motherboard supports DDR800, then you need to get RAM of that speed. You should probably also get DDR2 RAM, as that is the newer, faster type out there and older types are being phased out. It isn't as crucial in my opinion to get the highest quality RAM, especially if you aren't looking to overclock. You should be just fine with the "value" models of the mainstream brands (Corsair, OCZ, Kingston are a few).

A note on your sound card, unless the breakout box matters to you, you might want to go with the cheaper models. There is no difference in sound quality, and the performance gain from the extra memory of the Fatality is negligible compared to the cost. I use the music edition of the X-Fi, and it has worked well for me. Just my opinion though.

Here's some links to some example hardware:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813131538
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819115003
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820145590
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16822144701
 
IonizeMyAtoms,

First off, both staticprimer and Stigmata have offered great info. If I were you, I would take the info in their posts under great consideration.

As for the X-Fi sound cards with the XRAM (64mb Audio RAM) I would advise you to get one that does have the RAM, only because it's not going to be long before games/Programs will be able to utilize the hardware. Sure right now it might be a novelty, but if you read my post about Sound cards, I believe one of the sites I linked to, explain that in time, XRAM will be benificial, even if at this time it's not. Wouldn't hurt if nothing else. All depending on what you want, visyally speaking, I myself prefer the front breakout box. Easy access. Unless you are a musician, (and even then) I very much recommend the X-Fi range of sound cards. Even the basic version, the Extreme audio, is a great card & vastly more powerful than the Audigy 2 ZS. My dad is a musician & he loves the X-Fi Extreme Music I installed for him. There are of course other sound card makers if you wish to try another manufacturer.

When it comes to Hard Drives, I strongly recommend a Raptor drive or other high RPM HDD. Both 10k & 15k drives offer an amazing performance boost over standard drives, even SATA2, not saying SATA or SATA2 drives are bad, because they arn't. I reciently installed a 10K Raptor drive in a clients PC and he simply could not believe the performance boost he got over his regular SATA drive. Installed WinXP in just over 8 minutes. Depending on hardware installed, normal typical WinXP installation can take in excess of 30 mins on a refular SATA drive. Just to give you an example.

Good advice on waiting for the DX10 cards. With ATI to release their own DX10 cards just around the corner, it would be a smart idea to wait and see what they release. For a great $150-ish card now, I would advise either the X1950 or 7900GS.

Even if you are a die-hard AMD fan, you simply cannot go wrong with Intels Core 2 Duo line of CPU's. Even the baby E6300 is amazingly powerful, let alone the E6600 that staticprimer mentions. A word of caution though. when you go to buy a motherboard, if you go with a Core 2 Cuo CPU, Intel has released the new 1333mhz FSB CPU's. Make sure you get a mobo that supports the new FSB. Just a little heads up.

As for RAM. Get the fastest you can afford. DDR2-1066 (Or faster) is your best bet. Because it gives you room to overclock. Slower RAM can bottleneck your tweakign attempts before you even begin. I would advise nothing slower than than DDR2-800. Of course the choice is yours.

If you like, as you narrow down what you are thinking about getting, post the info here and we'll be more than glad to help you fine tune your choices.

All we ask is that you have a realistic dollar amount you can spend NOW. There is no point in us helping you and then you saying that you'll be buying the PC in 3 to 6 months time. Hardware & prices will have changed too much by next month, let alone 3 or even 6 months.

I'm jealous. I want a new PC too...

-MRG
 
How is the noise and heat situation with the Raptor drives? Because of space my computer is only a foot or two from my head, so if its loud it could get annoying. As for heat, well that's something I always worry about. These two factors are kind of holding me back from putting down an extra $120 for a HDD.
 
staticprimer said:
How is the noise and heat situation with the Raptor drives? Because of space my computer is only a foot or two from my head, so if its loud it could get annoying. As for heat, well that's something I always worry about. These two factors are kind of holding me back from putting down an extra $120 for a HDD.
Click to expand...

Thats a good question. The 10K drive I installed in my clients PC, sounds almost exactliy the same as one of my SATA drives does. I was suprised because I thought that the extra RPM's had to raise the noise level. Under full load, (i.e heavy gaming) or when the PC first boots up, I heard about a 2% to 5% noise increase. So in other words, negligible, at least IMO when you compare it to the extra performance. Plus, if you have more than one case fan, that might even mask the noise some or if the case is tightly sealed. (As tight as a regular case can be sealed I guess.. lol)

As for heat, like any HDD, in an enclosed space it'll heat up. I placed a regular 80mm silent fan behind the 10K HDD to help keep it cool, because as you know, heat first slows performance & then causes damage. However, before I installed the fan, I had installed WinXP and fully updated all drivers and in a normal temp room @ approx 70 degrees (Installed at the beginning of this past winter) the HDD did not feel any warmer than one of the ATA-133 drives I have in my own PC. However, I didn't have a temp gage to get exact readings. I have read that some people experience a definate increase in noise & heat. Could also be attributed to the actual quality control of the drive itself. Some are made on a Monday & so the quality is shitty & some on Wednesday where the quality is spot on. I have not had the chance to install a 15K drive yet so as far as they go, I don't know.

The next time I upgrade, I will be installing at least a 10k drive & if I can afford it, a 15k drive. I can put up with the extra noise & heat when I weigh it against the performance boost.

This is of course just my own opinion.

-MRG
 
MRG, can you recommend a good, budget 10K hd?
 
How fast does raid 0 (I think it's zero) *with normal 7200RPM drives compare to a single 10k?

With 2 drives?

With 3 drives?

*edited
 
6Three said:
MRG, can you recommend a good, budget 10K hd?
Click to expand...

ASUS beat me to it. Like he said, both the 74GB & 150GB drives are better than the 36GB HDD. If you have the money, you can get a newer 300GB 10k drive, but it's extremely expensive. You could save alot of money and just buy x2 150GB 10k drives and RAID them. I would advise having a Raptor drive for games & programs you want to run quickly & a SATA or SATA2 drive for general storage. I know you already know, but I also advise you to buy from Newegg. They are just simply the best online retailer as far as i'm concerned. Over the years I have spent thousands of dollars on clients PC's and fully 95% of the business has gone to Newegg. If I had to, I would place second only to TigersDirect.

Excellent 150GB WD Raptor 10k Drive - $180
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16822136012

Info On 150GB Raptor Drive in RAID-0
1) http://www.gamepc.com/labs/view_content.asp?id=raptor150raid&page=1&cookie_test=1
2) http://www.tomshardware.com/2006/02/06/wd1500ad_raptor_xtends_performance_lead/index.html

-MRG
 
The performance difference is going to depending on what you do with your PC. The kind of use a workstation PC puts a drive through will notice a much bigger difference in performance than the work most desktop computers do. Also with each drive you add to a RAID 0 array the risk of failure multiplies.

Anyway, Tom's has a review showing single and RAID 0 between 10,000 RPM and 7,200 RPM WD drives.
It's sorta funny how the synthetic test scores them differently for boot time yet when actually timed they come out the same. Other benchmarks I've seen do show a difference in actual boot time.
This shows ya some scaling adding 1, 2, 3 and 4 drives to a RAID. Just file copy tests and synthetic benchmarks.
And Doom3 framerate.
Some cases a Single drive is faster than RAID 0

haha same links

*edit
Also a dedicated RAID card makes a big difference over most onboard solutions.
 
Thanks...

I was looking at upgrading but I think I will also wait until more dx10 cards are out like ATi's and maybe the 8900s
 
I feel that normal day to day use (gaming and surfing) with 10k HDDs is just way overkill. Performance-wise? Seconds.
But i just cant trade space for speed when it comes to HDD.....Just cant.
 
Honestly I would have thought that HDs would be a lot faster by now :\

They really are the slowest thing on computers right now...
 
I would suggest going for the quad cores because they will use quad cores more in the future. I'm gonna wait on that though. Should I get dual SLI or crossfire though? It's seems kinda confusing running two different cards at the same time and it's overkill IMO. I'm used to you know, upgrading the video card every 2 years or so and not upgrading them both, etc.
 
See now, fraction the space of this 16MB 7200rpm 500GB HDD is what you get for 10k HDD for the same price may be more and save may be 5 seconds loading time. lol
 
Barney Fife said:
See now, fraction the space of this 16MB 7200rpm 500GB HDD is what you get for 10k HDD for the same price may be more and save may be 5 seconds loading time. lol
Click to expand...
Yeah, Raptors are a premium product or workstation grade anyway. It's hard to justify a lot of performance hardware for just desktops unless you think you could use it or have money to burn.
 
I'm actually purchasing 2 74gb raptors (16mb) for 200eur (second hand). I plan to put them in a RAID 0. I hope to see a performance increase over my single IDE 80gb drive lol.

edit: lol I decided not to after reading a fwe good reviews on the raptors in raid etc..
 
Just buy a SATA. That's enough of a speed increase to sooth anyone over.
 
Qonfused said:
Just buy a SATA. That's enough of a speed increase to sooth anyone over.
Click to expand...
(I'm just mentioning this so no one gets the wrong impression.) SATA itself doesn't improve a drive's performance. Do you mean to just buy a regular 7,200 RPM drive? Cause a 10k RPM Raptor would be under that SATA umbrella.
 
>.< I still can't decide on what would be best.

I want to keep this HD config under $150 CAD (including tax)

What do you think would give better performance? (mainly with loading times)

One of these? http://www.ncix.com/products/index.php?sku=16141&vpn=WD2500KS&manufacture=Western Digital

Or two of these in RAID 0? http://www.ncix.com/products/index.php?sku=21930&promoid=1066

Other?

I don't care about space as long as it's not less than 150GB.

(also what do you think of buying open-box? too risky?)
 
Well the single 250 is larger than 2x80 for essentially the same price. In addition the 250 has a 16mb cache as opposed to the 80's 8. So, go for the 250.
 
Yea for some reason I assumed that two 80GB w/ 8mb cache would add up to 16mb cache, but that's probably completely wrong.

I guess I'd go for the 250 anyway
 
Naudian said:
Yea for some reason I assumed that two 80GB w/ 8mb cache would add up to 16mb cache, but that's probably completely wrong.

I guess I'd go for the 250 anyway
Click to expand...

And I don't have lots respect for Hitachi when come down to HDD. Western Digital and Seagate are your choices.

Good Luck.
 
I've been using a single Hitachi 80GB for a over a year now with no issues. Aside from the lack of storage...

It's really quiet too, although it often makes a loud click if I leave the computer inactive for a while, which scared me a bit at first because I thought it was the "click of death" but it seems to be a normal thing.

I hope the western digital drive is as quiet :)
 
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