Help Wanted & Offered : Rules

[Onions]

Read this before posting.


Do not purposely set out to insult the design of a mod seeking help. Feel free to offer constructive criticism and advice. People post here seeking help, remember that.

 

[Shinobi]

totally agree,,

the comments against mods lately have been in some cases downright insults

 

[Stigmata]

I know. Even some of the mods and site staff joined in on the "fun"

 

[chapel]

Well I try to be as constructive as possible. If you have noticed. Some people have been harsher than most, I agree, but in a way it almost seems warranted. I have no say over rules here, just saying what I feel.

 

[ComradeBadger]

Stickied !

 

[Teddy]

aww! i just survived my "tiral by fire" and now you're getting rid of the initiation?

 

[dys-Fuzzy]

I just thought I'd mention my thoughts on this forum.

You guys seem to make basically the same comments on every thread, wouldn't it be easier to turn this sticky into a more detailed list of do's and don't's?

I'll use Pendragon's latest post as the basis for an example of what I think should be in a "using this forum" style sticky:

Mistake #1: Thread Title. Name your thread as descriptively as possible. Include your mod name, genre and what positions you are advertising for.

Mistake #2: Originality. Be sure that your mod is sufficiently original. Ports, remakes and clones are not good bases for the creation of a mod.

Mistake #3: Design. You need a design document, even if you don't reveal the entire design you should use it as the basis of the information you post here. You need to paint a decent picture of what your mod is focusing on, remember that you're advertising here. You need to include enough info to get people interested in your mod, a disjointed chunk of day dream is not going to gain dev team members.

Mistake #4: Leading a mod. Before you can lead a mod well, you need to work for another mod and learn the process. Especially if you don't know anything really about the topic, you need to work for someone else before you try to direct people.

Mistake #5: Communication. Don't restrict people to forum PM when trying to contact you--make it easy for interested folks to talk to you in a personal manner--email and messenger addresses are both essentials.

 

[The Dark Elf]

dys-Fuzzy, nice idea in theory but alas few will listen.

as an example. Can go blue in the face telling people the best methods to make their models for Source now. But not one mod team I've seen has actually taken notice, even Valve are saying the same things and still they don't listen. You see, apparantly kids straight out of school think they know better than those who've been doing it for years, so just refuse to listen. But you can bet they'll all be back complaining and wanting to learn when its too late.

 

[IchI]

yes I know what you mean, but you need to think abot whats actually been happening. I mean... how many people post threads asking for help with no clue what they are doing at all? also the fact they give absolutly no information at all. It always happens and I try to constructivly critise them but most of the time it just gets to the part where its beyond a joke. I think some people might agree with proberly need a rule on this forum where you must provide information before you ask for help. If people did this we wouldn't have to even comment on there design document and people could just apply for help.

In my opinion the forum thread sections need sorting out. The General Editing is a bit weird because it contains loads of things which could be outlined differently. Just have something like:

Modification Design
Model Design
Sound Design
Level Design
Job offerings/preposals

Thats just of the top of my head but it would be a lot more straight to the point and simple for people to udnerstand and follow.

thats just my opinion anyway.

 

[Shinobi]

dys-Fuzzy, nice idea in theory but alas few will listen.

as an example. Can go blue in the face telling people the best methods to make their models for Source now. But not one mod team I've seen has actually taken notice, even Valve are saying the same things and still they don't listen. You see, apparantly kids straight out of school think they know better than those who've been doing it for years, so just refuse to listen. But you can bet they'll all be back complaining and wanting to learn when its too late.

whoa whoa,,, are these common sense methods ,, or are there some esoteric guidelines for HL2 models?

 

[The Dark Elf]

whoa whoa,,, are these common sense methods ,, or are there some esoteric guidelines for HL2 models?

common sense methods.

 

[IchI]

I am still confused by what you was trying to say fenric?

If I am understanding you correctly I have basiclly seen all these mod teams making player models and not one mod team has even made 1 LOD system, I asked one mod team "Not naming" when theya re planning to model the other LOD systems and they thought hl2 did it automatically. Its the same with 3rd person models. I know its still early on and even I havn't started to model anything really along the lines of other things needed like 3rd person models etc... but the whole mod I am in is vertually ojn hold anyway, we are just saiting for the SDK to get exact figues on what we can and can't do. To many mod teams are talking information for granted and seem to think the source engine is this amazing thing that can handle anything. I am jus gunna laugh when people find out that there 10,000 triangle models without LOD systems just lag like hell. Some people will get a lot of reality checks about 2 months on after the SDK has been released and I can see loads of mods stop production. B8ut at the same time loads more starting. Thats just my thoughts anyway. I am actually quiet glad Corporate Anarchy is been smart and just concentrating on concept art and the design document, we are also throwing ideas around between are selfs building up new things. We have some models done, but these are most likely going to be changed. Its just to show of really

 

[ComradeBadger]

The SDK isn't much, it's just the stuff required for those lazy codemonkeys glue your ideas together.

Concept (lot's of it) Models, Maps, Planning, DIALOGUE (was talking to Kadayi on IRC earlier.. I think dialogue is immensely important) can all be done waaaay before the SDK.

It's not some kind of miracle machine that makes your ideas great, and work.

 

[PinFX]

Hey hey, well needed thread! *glares at fenric and ichi*
Anyways, just in case anyone is wondering about LOD systems:

We are using 4-5 LODs for Half-Life 2, each one is about 60% of the previous LOD's poly count. I hope that helps you plan better. -Rick Ellis

You can find a lot of info @ http://collective.valve-erc.com on the source engine. Any specific questions you have you can search some forums including AMN or the forums @ valve-erc. And you can always just send an email off to Rick if you need a really technical question answered.

 

[Neutrino]

First off, thank you very much, oninions, for posting these rules. I think they were well needed. However, if these are truly the rules for the help wanted forum could they please be enforced? I just think it's ridiculous that some moderators continue to just ignore them completely:

That sticky at the top is merely the ramblings of onions.

So please if there are going to be rules can they please be enforced for EVERYONE, not just members?

I already got into one argument with a moderator over this and was apparently completely ignored. I certainly understand that people want to be completely honest with mod makers and that is perfectly reasonable. However, I feel it is pointless to just bash a mod idea without giving constructive criticism. It's also possible to tell someone their idea is not that good in a polite way. It's just common decency in my opinion. Sorry to rehash old events but it's just that I continue to see comments about how mod ideas will just fail, without any helpful suggestions or anything. So whoever's in charge of this forum, please take note of this if you would. I think it would improve things a lot here if the rules would just be enforced. Thanks.

 

[The Dark Elf]

This thread was put up by onions and was not shared among ALL the staff

Neutrino, i didn't ignore you, i replied numerous times until you began to get insulting, not to mention your little dance with Kadayi while you both planned what you'd say next (you really shouldn't use PM's for setting that up) and then I did put you on ignore to avoid you pissing me off which was what you were trying to do. I had thought you'd shut up about it now, I guess I overestimated you.

Frankly I'm getting sick of the fact you wont let it lie, if you don't like it here LEAVE, go elsewhere. Go setup a site where you can run it and do it your way. Rather than sticking around here trying to cause trouble.

 

[Neutrino]

This thread was put up by onions and was not shared among ALL the staff

Neutrino, i didn't ignore you, i replied numerous times until you began to get insulting, not to mention your little dance with Kadayi while you both planned what you'd say next (you really shouldn't use PM's for setting that up) and then I did put you on ignore to avoid you pissing me off which was what you were trying to do. I had thought you'd shut up about it now, I guess I overestimated you.

Frankly I'm getting sick of the fact you wont let it lie, if you don't like it here LEAVE, go elsewhere. Go setup a site where you can run it and do it your way. Rather than sticking around here trying to cause trouble.

First, I didn't know this wasn't shared among the staff. I merely saw "the rules" for the help wanted forum, which I assumed were official.

You "replied numerous times until I began to get insulting"? Alright, here's the thread you are referring to http://www.halflife2.net/forums/showthread.php?t=21859 so if anyone wants to read it and see my apparent horrible behavior they can. I'll admit I was perhaps a bit rude in my first post there, which I freely admitted to and apologized for in an edit. Please show me where in that thread I became insulting later? In fact I even tried to be pleasent with you and discussed some other aspects of the mod that you comment on. I also sent a PM to you later trying to explain myself better because you didn't seem to understand what I meant. But I never received a reply. Sorry if you never got it or something.

And and so now you say you read all the private messages I sent? Are you telling me that PM's on this forum are no such thing? There open to anyone to read now? I thought the reason to use them was so that you can say things without bringing it into the public eye. But since you seem to know all about them now, yes I PM'd Kadayi and thanked him for understanding what I was trying to say in that thread. From there, yes we did hold a private conversation with each other about the situation as we both happened to agree with each other.

I truly was not trying to "piss you off" and there was no need to put me on ignore. I sent you one single PM to you trying to further explain myself and I might have sent one more when you didn't respond, I don't really remember. But I was hardly harrassing you.

I apologize for not "shutting up" about it, but I feel it is an important issue in this forum and it's my opinion that there need to be some rules about this that can be enforced. Sorry if I'm not suppose to have opinions and voice them, I had sort of thought that was the point of having a forum.

Also, I apologize to everyone else for this argument. I thought it had been settled earlier in private and did in fact drop the matter until now, but upon reading some threads in this forum found out that it had not been.

About leaving the forum; I happen to like it here for the most part. I only had a problem with this one issue. Also, I'd just like to say that until now I tried to handle the situation for the most part in private. But after reading you post above I just don't really care anymore. That's probably just because I'm a bit upset by it and perhaps I really shouldn't say anything more, but as I said I just don't care at this point.

Before this I had no real problem with you for the most part fenric, but I think your recent behaviour is appalling for a moderator. Last time I disagreed with you all I got from you was being made fun of and practically ridiculed. If I got this sort of disrespect from other moderators I would indeed leave this forum. But I like the mods here and have no problem with them. So sorry if you would prefer that I leave, but I see no reason to.

 

[Kadayi]

Neutrino, i didn't ignore you, i replied numerous times until you began to get insulting, not to mention your little dance with Kadayi while you both planned what you'd say next (you really shouldn't use PM's for setting that up) and then I did put you on ignore to avoid you pissing me off which was what you were trying to do. I had thought you'd shut up about it now, I guess I overestimated you.

So let me get this right

1) firstly you completely remove our posts from a thread, simply because you disagreed with the fact that we defended the publisher after you had insulted him.

2) Subsequently Munro reinstates the posts.

3) However unable to handle the fact that you might actually of been wrong and that an apology might be in order you then carry on with the thread making little asides, as wel as devise a 'new sig' that pretty much indicates your contempt for the rest of the members of HL².net

4) And not only that but you actually read my private messages? (I'd like to know where in the sign on for this site I agreed to let moderators view my private messages)

Instead of doing all that why couldn't you just be man enough to admit that perhaps your responses to the poster were too harsh?

 

[ComradeBadger]

Moderators can't read private messages. We can't, they are beyond our control.

 

[Kadayi]

Moderators can't read private messages. We can't, they are beyond our control.

Don't defend the indefensible. Fenric admits to it.

 

[ComradeBadger]

No, we really can't. It's not possible. Ok? It was just an educated guess.

 

[CrazyHarij]

not to mention your little dance with Kadayi while you both planned what you'd say next (you really shouldn't use PM's for setting that up

Doesn't really look like an "educated guess" to me.

 

[Kadayi]

No, we really can't. It's not possible. Ok? It was just an educated guess.

One says one thing, one says the other. I'm inclined to go with the former over the latter.

 

[The Dark Elf]

heheh

Kadayi I am sorry for deleting your posts where you went off on one. I do hope you have it in your heart to forgive me.

Edit: and no we can't read your PM's but pasting them up in IRC isn't a good idea either. Just because I'm not there doesn't mean someone wont tell me what was said.

 

[Pi Mu Rho]

We can't read PMs.

 

[Neutrino]

Well, anyway, if you want to know so much fenric I'll gladly send you the entire private conversation if you want it. There's nothing horribly sinister there. Also, I would ask that in the future you don't make offensive accusations against me or insult me for no reason.

And I'll just be glad when some official rules are made for this forum. Hopefully soon, from what I understand.

 

[Kadayi]

heheh

Kadayi I am sorry for deleting your posts where you went off on one. I do hope you have it in your heart to forgive me.

Edit: and no we can't read your PM's but pasting them up in IRC isn't a good idea either. Just because I'm not there doesn't mean someone wont tell me what was said.

Don't patronise me with your Faux concerns now, you don't have the brains to pull it off.

I keep my IRC logs and there isn't anything in there about PMs to Neutrino or content of for that date, so you are well into the Bullshit zone.

 

[ComradeBadger]

We can't read PMs, it's simply a physical impossibility. Please give this a rest, this has run it's course.

 

[Munro]

This is turning into a pointless argument. If you want to argue about this see me on IRC, please leave it off the forums.