Helplife2.net: Rent dilemma

[Solaris]

Hi guys,

Here is my dilema.

I'm currently finishing my second year at Uni. Over this year I've been living in a house with 2 other friends.

We pay £180 a month each. One of the friends, signed a form in June last year, giving details of guarantors etc. and has been paying rent since then, along side the other friend who has been paying rent but didn't sign a form.

I moved in, in September and didn't sign anything, just kept paying each months rent to the landlord. We all paid a £180 security deposit each when we moved in.

Now, I was planning on moving out at the end of this month, but have since found out that my friend signed the form for a 12 months period. That means the landlord is expecting next months rent from each of us and then moving out at the end of the month.

However I don't really want to do this, I want to go home to burnley, and I don't see why I should pay a months rent when I'm not living here and have no intention too nor never did.

However, the landlord told me on the phone that if I just left, she could and would sue my friend for the missing months rent. Can she do that? Even though I've always paid my rent directly to her? I'm not sure what the form he signed said, but who knows.

Also, at the start of the year we got an electricity bill when we just moved in for £60, in someone elses name. We ignored it and got a letter saying they would install a card pay as you go metre.

They never did and we just continued to use the electricty and now the landlord wants us to pay the bill for that which is about £250. However the bill is in the landlords name, not ours are we liable for this???


**** it's all very confusing. What I really want to do is just **** up and leave in a few days, the landlord doesn't even have my address like. However this could potentially be me ****ing over my friend, and I definitely don't want to do that.

What do I do?!

 

[No Limit]

Your friend signed a legal contract that he would be there for 12 months. Furthermore in that contact I assume there was something about switching over the utilities as soon as you move in.

I don't know how it is in your country but that's how it is here. Landlords that want to rent their homes out usually hire a agent to handle the lease forms for them so they aren't held liable when people like you and your friend flake out. Since you didn't sign anything they can't touch you, but you would be leaving your friend screwed because he did sign the contract. So it's up to you, screw over your friend or pay the last month and your share of the utility bill.

 

[Ravioli]

Since you arent on any contract you dont have to pay shit for that extra month. Your friend should know this, but you could just give him like half of the usual share just as a friendly gesture (even though you dont have to).

But i dont think you are legally forced to pay anything, you didnt sign any contract, you are free to go.

 

[Dan]

Look up your local tenancy act. I can't speak for Ireland, but this is my advice generally speaking: If your friend signed a 12 month contract for just his share of rent, then he is only liable for his portion and not yours. If his 12 month contract is for the entire house, then yes you might be screwing him over. The electricity bill is definitely bogus unless you agreed beforehand to pay for electricity. Don't pay for the original £60 no matter what. Don't pay it. Does your landlord have your deposit? Did you already pay this months rent? It will be easier for you if you don't pay this month, and let the landlord keep your deposit as last months rent. It usually takes more than a month to evict someone. Otherwise you have to fight over getting your deposit back. And if your landlord is a jerk, have to take her to court.

 

[Solaris]

Your friend signed a legal contract that he would be there for 12 months. Furthermore in that contact I assume there was something about switching over the utilities as soon as you move in.

I don't know how it is in your country but that's how it is here. Landlords that want to rent their homes out usually hire a agent to handle the lease forms for them so they aren't held liable when people like you and your friend flake out. Since you didn't sign anything they can't touch you, but you would be leaving your friend screwed because he did sign the contract. So it's up to you, screw over your friend or pay the last month and your share of the utility bill.

See this is why I deliberately didn't sign any forms, I wish he hadn't. And furthermore, he's not even sure what the forms mentioned. The bills still arrive in the landlords name though, can we be liable for an electricity bill when we never signed any agreement with the company? Probably like.

But it's not even a two way street like, I highly doubt I'll get my security deposit back and becuase I didn't sign anything I don't even have any proof that the money I gave her was a security deposit. I think I'll just pay my share of the electricity bill and not pay my last months rent, just tell her to use the security deposit for that.

 

[CptStern]

but have since found out that my friend signed the form for a 12 months period. That means the landlord is expecting next months rent from each of us and then moving out at the end of the month.

you have zero obligation to pay

However, the landlord told me on the phone that if I just left, she could and would sue my friend for the missing months rent.

not your responsibility. your roomate signed the contract, you didnt

Can she do that? Even though I've always paid my rent directly to her? I'm not sure what the form he signed said, but who knows.

yes the person who signed the contract is responsible for the FULL amount they agreed to. their fault for not telling you in advance


also this could have been avoided had you gave the standard 60 days notice of leaving. I wouldnt pay and your "friend" shouldnt feel justified in asking you for something you didnt agree to. ALWAYS ALWAYS get stuff in writing when it comes to rental agreements. word of mouth is worthless in a court

The bills still arrive in the landlords name though, can we be liable for an electricity bill when we never signed any agreement with the company? Probably like

no. it's in his name. he can however take you to small claims court for the money which you'd probably lose.

But it's not even a two way street like, I highly doubt I'll get my security deposit back and becuase I didn't sign anything I don't even have any proof that the money I gave her was a security deposit.

did you pay by cheque or cash? if it's the former go to your bank and get them to pull up the cheque, photocopy it and submit it to the landlord. if he says no then you can take it to small claims court where you'll most likely win HOWEVER if it's cash you're screwed unless you can show a paer trail or have a witness saying you paid. it's probably better to just let it go if the latter case is true

 

[No Limit]

See this is why I deliberately didn't sign any forms, I wish he hadn't. And furthermore, he's not even sure what the forms mentioned. The bills still arrive in the landlords name though, can we be liable for an electricity bill when we never signed any agreement with the company? Probably like.

If the lease said that you need to switch over your utilites as soon as you move in (it probably did) then yes, whoever signed the lease is liable for that money. If he hadn't signed anything he probably wouldn't have gotten the apartment. People won't rent their livelihood to some punk kids (no offense) on faith.

But it's not even a two way street like, I highly doubt I'll get my security deposit back and becuase I didn't sign anything I don't even have any proof that the money I gave her was a security deposit. I think I'll just pay my share of the electricity bill and not pay my last months rent, just tell her to use the security deposit for that.

That's up to you. Just understand your friend can't back out of this and will probably be taken to court if he tries to.

 

[Dan]

http://www.adviceguide.org.uk/index/family_parent/housing/tenancy_agreements.htm

also

http://www.daft.ie/content/residential_tenancies_act_2004.daft

 

[Septih]

But it's not even a two way street like, I highly doubt I'll get my security deposit back and becuase I didn't sign anything I don't even have any proof that the money I gave her was a security deposit.

In the UK the landlord is required by law to put the deposit in a protection scheme. They can only claim the money for damage to the property. If they didn't put the deposit in a protection scheme and it's in the contract that you signed that you have to pay a deposit then the landlord is liable for the deposit x 3

 

[Solaris]

Right well I obviously don't want to **** over my friend, would be a horrible thing to do.

I could pay my share of the electricity bill (but include the original £60 or not?!?) and then leave within a week, that way my security deposit would cover the missing months rent and the bill would be taken care of.

However, what if the landlady decided the original £60 should be paid by us as well, or that the walls need scrubbing or something.

All I'd be doing in reality is sending her an arbitrary amount of money I never agreed to be liable for in the first place in the hope she doesn't sue my friend for more.

I could ask my landlady how much she wants to not sue my friend and she'll probably say the full electricity bill plus next months rent. But what if I pay that and then she never gives me my security deposit back? I never got a receipt for it or anything, legally I'd have no ground to stand on if I sued to get it back.

What a ****ing strange situation. Add to the fact that I actually have no money and will have to ask my parents for it at the same time telling them I've dropped out of uni and it's ****ing weird.

 

[Solaris]

In the UK the landlord is required by law to put the deposit in a protection scheme. They can only claim the money for damage to the property. If they didn't put the deposit in a protection scheme and it's in the contract that you signed that you have to pay a deposit then the landlord is liable for the deposit x 3

I haven't signed any form.

She just asked for an additional £180 as a 'security deposit' and I gave it to her. Wasn't in writing.

 

[CptStern]

did you pay in cash or cheque? you shouldnt be responsible for next months rent. how much notice did you give?

 

[Solaris]

did you pay in cash or cheque? you shouldnt be responsible for next months rent. how much notice did you give?

Paid everything by bank transfer.

Didn't give any notice as I thought this was the last month, turns out it isn't.

Real ****ing pain, but if my friend is liable for it, I can't **** him over. Maybe I'll see if I can get a job for the next month or so, but it isn't easy.

 

[Dan]

Why is your friend liable for your rent? You never explained that part. Did he rent the whole house?

 

[Solaris]

Why is your friend liable for your rent? You never explained that part. Did he rent the whole house?

I don't really know to be honest, we were all given a form where we had to get relatives to sign it saying they'd cover our rent or any damages if we didn't pay etc. However he was the only one who signed it and gave it her, me and my friend just never bothered.

So I'm not really sure what the form says, whether the form my friend signed said he'd be liable for rent for the whole house, or only his share. The landlady told me today that she was concerned one of two of us were just going to leave and not pay next months rent or the electricity bill. And she said that she could sue my friend for it, if we did that.

However whether she could or not I have no idea, as I do not know what the form said. I could ask her for a copy of the form, but she would clearly know why I wanted it and that would kill any goodwill, something I want to keep if I want my security deposit back (which seems unlikely given the situation).

 

[Eejit]

I was going to offer advice, then I saw you typing posts in written Belfastian.

 

[Dan]

well, she is legally obligated to return to you your security deposit. The only reasonable cause she could give is that you failed to send her written notice about terminating your tenancy. Depending on the terms of your oral agreement, you might not need that written notice. I don't know read up on your tenancy act. And it sounds like she had no cause keep your friends security deposit or have your friend pay for your rent. Your friend should have a copy of the contract he signed yes? Read it. I doubt she can sue your friend for it.

 

[Solaris]

well, she is legally obligated to return to you your security deposit without a cause. And it sounds like she had no cause to either keep your security deposit or keep your friends security deposit or have your friend pay for your rent. Your friend should have a copy of the contract he signed yes? Read it. I don't think she can sue your friend for it.

Nope, he doesn't have a copy. This is three lads aged 19 renting for the first time lol, total mess.

Also the landladies pretty unprofessional too, when I emailed her for the first time as we were looking for a house I though she was Polish as her spelling was so bad.

 

[CptStern]

Paid everything by bank transfer.

Didn't give any notice as I thought this was the last month, turns out it isn't.

Real ****ing pain, but if my friend is liable for it, I can't **** him over. Maybe I'll see if I can get a job for the next month or so, but it isn't easy.

but your friend will be liable for every other month as well. it's up to him to fill the void. paying him for your share of the rent for a month you wont even be there is silly. he should understand that and if he doesnt ..well he's not much of a friend. which is why it's probably better if you dont enter into a contract with friends

in the future cover your bases: give at least 30 days notice

Nope, he doesn't have a copy. This is three lads aged 19 renting for the first time lol, total mess.

you said it was a bank transfer. your bank will have a record of this. this is as good as a signed affidavit that you paid

 

[Solaris]

Nope my friends moving out next month too, he's only in a signed contract from June last year to June this year. I just thought it was May.

But this is retarded, when he moved in there wasn't a 3rd roomate (me) just the two of them. I moved in September. There's no way the form could have had a clause, "You are also responsible for the rent of a third house mate who doesn't live in the house yet and have no knowledge of moving in, but if he does move in, and then leaves early, you must pay the difference."

No, it's ****ing stupid.

I think I'll just move out June, let her keep my security deposit, which would cover my share of the electricity bill (approx 60-90) and an extra hundred or so on top of that. She's not going to try and sue him for £80 rent (the difference between what she claim I owe and what she'll have) under such uncertain circumstances.

And if she does and is successful, I'll just give him the £80.

 

[CptStern]

Nope my friends moving out next month too, he's only in a signed contract from June last year to June this year. I just thought it was May.

But this is retarded, when he moved in there wasn't a 3rd roomate (me) just the two of them. I moved in September. There's no way the form could have had a clause, "You are also responsible for the rent of a third house mate who doesn't live in the house yet and have no knowledge of moving in, but if he does move in, and then leaves early, you must pay the difference."

well this makes a world of difference: he subletted the space to you without amending the contract. it's totally his responsibility. also when you agreed to move in there was it with the agreement that it was on a month to month basis or did you agree to stay till the lease expired? if it's the latter well you really have no obligation to pay however it puts you in a bad light

 

[Ennui]

This is why you read your ****ing lease. The guy who signed the lease is responsible for the full rent during that period since that is presumably what was in the lease contract. You and the other guy are just essentially paying part of his rent and living there. He is legally responsible. His fault for not reading the lease/notifying you of the duration, but he's financially responsible and you're scot free (by American laws at least). If you don't pay he will be legally required to pay for you.

 

[Solaris]

well this makes a world of difference: he subletted the space to you without amending the contract. it's totally his responsibility. also when you agreed to move in there was it with the agreement that it was on a month to month basis or did you agree to stay till the lease expired? if it's the latter well you really have no obligation to pay however it puts you in a bad light

Well I'm not really sure to be honest, when they originally were moving in there was supposed to be a third person, but it fell through and he never had the money together and it never really went any further than that.

I think they both paid the extra rent for a third person till I moved in and started paying my rent directly to the landlord. Whether they paid the entire difference or not, I'm not sure at all. Whether they were legally bound to pay any of this, again none of us are sure, just the landlord said they were so they did.

Edit: No way am I ****ing my friend over however, becuase he signed the lease. If I have too, I'll pay it, just if I'm not legally responsible for it, and neither is he, no way.

 

[Krynn72]

Get a copy of the lease agreement you numbnut. Stop guessing about what it says and just read the damn thing.

 

[CptStern]

Well I'm not really sure to be honest, when they originally were moving in there was supposed to be a third person, but it fell through and he never had the money together and it never really went any further than that.

so you did them a favour by moving in. ultimately they're responsible for the rent. if you missed a rent payment they'd be responsible for paying the landlord. it's in the contract they signed

I think they both paid the extra rent for a third person till I moved in and started paying my rent directly to the landlord. Whether they paid the entire difference or not, I'm not sure at all. Whether they were legally bound to pay any of this, again none of us are sure, just the landlord said they were so they did.

yes they are legally bound to pay because of the contract. you have absolutely nothign to do with any of this from a contract/legal standpoint. this is why the landlord said he'd sue your friend and not you for next month's rent; he has no case because of the contract

Edit: No way am I ****ing my friend over however, becuase he signed the lease. If I have too, I'll pay it, just if I'm not legally responsible for it, and neither is he, no way.

you are not legally responsible for it however the people who signed the contract are. it's your call. seeing how it's your friend you might have to bite the bullet but you have no obligation to do so. I think your friend is a jerk for even asking you knowing full well you're not going to be living there. however you're somewhat to blame for not informing him with enough time to find someone else

 

[Solaris]

Well funny enough, to further mystify this complex arrangement, my friend hasn't even asked me. He hasn't been at the house in quite a while, just I learnt of the whole situation becuase I'm the only one who speaks to the landlord.

When someone has been behind on their rent, (right now one of the lads is 18days behind), the other two don't speak to the landlady at all, they refuse to answer there phones and as I can't do that to someone I always answer.

This has meant that I'm the only one out of the three of us that ever really speaks to the landlady or has any idea who owes what at a given time. Funny situation really given I've signed nothing, you'd think the guy who's legally responsible for the situation would be the one communicating with her.

Anyway, so the landladys been calling me up the last week or so chasing up the others lads rent and at the same time looking for assurance I'll be paying next months rent.


**** it's the bizzarest situation really when I step back from it, total cluster ****.

 

[CptStern]

Well funny enough, to further mystify this complex arrangement, my friend hasn't even asked me. He hasn't been at the house in quite a while, just I learnt of the whole situation becuase I'm the only one who speaks to the landlord.

When someone has been behind on their rent, (right now one of the lads is 18days behind), the other two don't speak to the landlady at all, they refuse to answer there phones and as I can't do that to someone I always answer.

This has meant that I'm the only one out of the three of us that ever really speaks to the landlady or has any idea who owes what at a given time. Funny situation really given I've signed nothing, you'd think the guy who's legally responsible for the situation would be the one communicating with her.

Anyway, so the landladys been calling me up the last week or so chasing up the others lads rent and at the same time looking for assurance I'll be paying next months rent.


**** it's the bizzarest situation really when I step back from it, total cluster ****.

dude just be more like schultz:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=34ag4nkSh7Q

 

[Mr Stabby]

I was under the impression most student accomadation is a 12 month contract with 2 months half rent over the summer.

£540 a month is quite cheap for a house, suppose the Holylands are a right shithole.

 

[Solaris]

I was under the impression most student accomadation is a 12 month contract with 2 months half rent over the summer.

£540 a month is quite cheap for a house, suppose the Holylands are a right shithole.

Yeah, it's a dump like.

 

[No Limit]

Nope, he doesn't have a copy. This is three lads aged 19 renting for the first time lol, total mess.

Well get a copy from the landlord.

I though she was Polish as her spelling was so bad.

??? What are we Polish people? The mexicans of europe?

 

[Krynn72]

??? What are we Polish people? The mexicans of europe?

Not even, at least Mexicans do manual labor. Lazy sods!

 

[StarBob]

I don't know much about European leases but US Leases are usually pretty weak and widely standardized. If you didn't sign it, you don't have any legal obligations. If you did sign it, you're bound by everything in it. My lease didn't have any specific stipulations on breaking it, but I'm sure there'd be at least a couple months of rent and a lost deposit if we left well before the 12 month period. But for you, I think you're good to go. I'm not a lawyer or anything though.

 

[Solaris]

Yeah the thing is, I know I'm good to go, but I can't **** over my friends. So I'll be working for a week to pay money for rent for a place I'm not staying in.

Oh well, it's better than ****ing over a friend.

 

[CptStern]

you have to ask yourself if they'd do the same for you?

 

[Solaris]

you have to ask yourself if they'd do the same for you?

I don't know, and to be honest, I kind of doubt it. However I'd rather not be that person and I've found some work for a few days 9-5 and I could have it covered.

Rough like, but hey. We'll have a big talk about it when everyone comes back but I feel like I know what's right, and thats to make sure my friend doesn't have to pay any debts that are kind of mine.