fragShader
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Pvt Ryan i would also like to code up an Extreme or Realistic difficulty mode - want to collaborate?
one of the main problems with the AI, even on skill3, is that their weapons don't do as much damage as yours do shot for shot, and their accurarcy is much lower.
the metrocops firing pistols seem to be handicapped with a huge shot spread, if u stand a fair distance away there are some positions u can stand where they will NEVER hit you... it's like there are a few set options for shot spread and the engine chooses one randomly. stand in the right spot and none of those options ever hit you.
but when i fire the pistol it seems dead accurate.
i've been messing with the sk_npc_dmg cvars to even out the damage inequity, but there are no cvars for the accuracy issue - for that we need the SDK.
my only concern about a higher difficulty mod is that a lot of cool AI behaviours might be dependent on map nodes, and i dunno if we'll get full source for the maps of the single-player campaign. i don't want to make new maps... std::map<T> is as close as i get
along with accuracy, ab few things i'd want to code up would be a "fear this spot" behaviour and a "retreat and fetch backup" behaviour.
you can kill a couple of soldiers instantly with a giant physics object trap or mounted weapon, and the other soldiers nearby will stay put and keep firing, or even run over to where their squadmates just died, only to be slaughtered the same way. similarly you can kill one with a crossbow bolt, and another will run to the same map node and suffer the same fate, then another, then another...
also they should retreat and regroup when they are nearly dead, or you've killed all their squadmates but there is another squad nearby. instead they just keep charging u while u unload a magazine into their head.
as for friendlies, step one is a "STAY PUT FFS" command. toggling "stay put" and "follow me" like in hl1 would be a good start.
and they need to be more cautious when fighting striders or gunships, especially if they don't have rpgs. too often they pause in the middle of the road to unload an smg clip into a strider, only to be cut down. what happened to "GET THE HELL OUT OF HERE!!!" from the old e3 2003 striders bink?
one of the main problems with the AI, even on skill3, is that their weapons don't do as much damage as yours do shot for shot, and their accurarcy is much lower.
the metrocops firing pistols seem to be handicapped with a huge shot spread, if u stand a fair distance away there are some positions u can stand where they will NEVER hit you... it's like there are a few set options for shot spread and the engine chooses one randomly. stand in the right spot and none of those options ever hit you.
but when i fire the pistol it seems dead accurate.
i've been messing with the sk_npc_dmg cvars to even out the damage inequity, but there are no cvars for the accuracy issue - for that we need the SDK.
my only concern about a higher difficulty mod is that a lot of cool AI behaviours might be dependent on map nodes, and i dunno if we'll get full source for the maps of the single-player campaign. i don't want to make new maps... std::map<T> is as close as i get
along with accuracy, ab few things i'd want to code up would be a "fear this spot" behaviour and a "retreat and fetch backup" behaviour.
you can kill a couple of soldiers instantly with a giant physics object trap or mounted weapon, and the other soldiers nearby will stay put and keep firing, or even run over to where their squadmates just died, only to be slaughtered the same way. similarly you can kill one with a crossbow bolt, and another will run to the same map node and suffer the same fate, then another, then another...
also they should retreat and regroup when they are nearly dead, or you've killed all their squadmates but there is another squad nearby. instead they just keep charging u while u unload a magazine into their head.
as for friendlies, step one is a "STAY PUT FFS" command. toggling "stay put" and "follow me" like in hl1 would be a good start.
and they need to be more cautious when fighting striders or gunships, especially if they don't have rpgs. too often they pause in the middle of the road to unload an smg clip into a strider, only to be cut down. what happened to "GET THE HELL OUT OF HERE!!!" from the old e3 2003 striders bink?
P
Poita
Guest
Wow, some great points there lads. It's nice to see a forum thread that actually has a usefull intelligent discusion going on. I don't think there's one smarmy smart ass flame. Good job.
Certainly lots of points to think about. I especially like the observation that since HL1 we have all become pretty good at online dm. It's true, we might think we are just wasting time dicking around at night with onine shooters but in fact years of intense playing has made us pretty good. We'd see just how good if we were forced to fight for our real lives in an online game against people who never play them, he he we'd slaughter them. So it's easy to see that it's a challenge for even the best cames copany to make AI to compete with what we've been dealing with for years online.
Certainly lots of points to think about. I especially like the observation that since HL1 we have all become pretty good at online dm. It's true, we might think we are just wasting time dicking around at night with onine shooters but in fact years of intense playing has made us pretty good. We'd see just how good if we were forced to fight for our real lives in an online game against people who never play them, he he we'd slaughter them. So it's easy to see that it's a challenge for even the best cames copany to make AI to compete with what we've been dealing with for years online.
Tynan
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One of the problems is that the entire movement style is asymmetrical. AI characters in HL2 move more like real people - go, stop, aim, fire, go, fire, etc. They're slow and methodical.
The player, if he's decent, constantly moves and dodges and runs around. It's much more advantageous.
They can't make the AI move like the player does (it's possible but the game would play like an Unreal Tournament deathmatch - bad for immersion).
What we could do is try to mod it so the player moves like the enemies do. Drastic accuracy penalties while moving... by far max aim while crouching, aim penalties when you turn your view quickly, and so on and so on, to try to harmonize play styles. Right now it's apples fighting oranges.
This movement style (more CS-like) could be fun too, it's somewhat more tactical. Every move has consequences (accuracy).
The player, if he's decent, constantly moves and dodges and runs around. It's much more advantageous.
They can't make the AI move like the player does (it's possible but the game would play like an Unreal Tournament deathmatch - bad for immersion).
What we could do is try to mod it so the player moves like the enemies do. Drastic accuracy penalties while moving... by far max aim while crouching, aim penalties when you turn your view quickly, and so on and so on, to try to harmonize play styles. Right now it's apples fighting oranges.
This movement style (more CS-like) could be fun too, it's somewhat more tactical. Every move has consequences (accuracy).
V
Villevalo
Guest
from what iv gathered there are nodes that are used, but all objects in the game hav variables that can be set, like whether the object is climbable, heavy or light, etc, and the ai decides what to do from there. i think theres actually alot that the ai can do, if a good mod team can go through the game and tweak it.
but i did have some interesting encounters, like with the striders knowing that it couldnt shoot through a car, so it walked up and stabbed me instead, and upon the reload, it shot me with the blue beam, then stabbed me. that was funny but it sucked. did anyone ever try distracting them with a grenade? i did and it worked so well, in nova prospekt
but i did have some interesting encounters, like with the striders knowing that it couldnt shoot through a car, so it walked up and stabbed me instead, and upon the reload, it shot me with the blue beam, then stabbed me. that was funny but it sucked. did anyone ever try distracting them with a grenade? i did and it worked so well, in nova prospekt
R
RegnaR
Guest
Hey All - my first post on these forums...
First off, like Poita said its nice to see a thread with intelligent conversation and not one idiot flame.
I agree with the majority here - i've been impressed by the AI, and I thoroughly enjoyed the game. But the accuracy and power does need working on, the enemy AI appear to attack as if thinking there guns did the same damage, like they think there superior numbers should overcome you.
Like others have said they made some damn impressive flanking attacks on me, and when squads stormed a room they covered all areas. They didn't all just pile in and immediate face my direction.
I think the rebels could have done a bit better on Anticitizen one, they were slaughtered by the Striders - at one point it was only me and one Strider left - all the Rebels were killed and for some reason more were not spawning. They did tend to crowd around me a bit, but it wasn't that much of a problem.
Although it may be asking a bit too much, it would be nice to see a little more emotion on the rebel side. It just felt a little odd where all but one of my rebel squad was killed, and while she had multiple gun shots to the head she didn't seem too worried about the whole thing.
I dunno how you could improve it, a movie I saw of an upcoming WW2 FPS did it well where when one of your soldiers died another ran to him, checked the pulse and then pronounced him dead.
Those are minor things though, overall I think Valve did a damn good job.
First off, like Poita said its nice to see a thread with intelligent conversation and not one idiot flame.
I agree with the majority here - i've been impressed by the AI, and I thoroughly enjoyed the game. But the accuracy and power does need working on, the enemy AI appear to attack as if thinking there guns did the same damage, like they think there superior numbers should overcome you.
Like others have said they made some damn impressive flanking attacks on me, and when squads stormed a room they covered all areas. They didn't all just pile in and immediate face my direction.
I think the rebels could have done a bit better on Anticitizen one, they were slaughtered by the Striders - at one point it was only me and one Strider left - all the Rebels were killed and for some reason more were not spawning. They did tend to crowd around me a bit, but it wasn't that much of a problem.
Although it may be asking a bit too much, it would be nice to see a little more emotion on the rebel side. It just felt a little odd where all but one of my rebel squad was killed, and while she had multiple gun shots to the head she didn't seem too worried about the whole thing.
I dunno how you could improve it, a movie I saw of an upcoming WW2 FPS did it well where when one of your soldiers died another ran to him, checked the pulse and then pronounced him dead.
Those are minor things though, overall I think Valve did a damn good job.
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