HL2's depiction of violence

[Danimal]

It's always fun to watch someone as smart as F|uke own everyone with valid points in threads... Most of the time the thread turns into politics :|

 

[bliink]

How on gods green.. er red earth would you know this

war's hell!

 

[Arathiel]

to play the devil's advocate here, perhaps it's best that we play with an unrealistic level of violence. Think about it this way... say that HL2 had uber realistic deaths. Citizen gets shot 3 times in the chest, is laying on the ground, bleeding out, sobbing and gasping through his punctured lungs for his mother, and asking god what he did to derserve this. The first time you saw that, it would have an emotional impact, a strong one. And I think that's what you all want. To feel the emotion involved in such slaughter. But the second time you saw it, the emotion would be slightly less intense. Then, each resulting death would deaden the emotional impact more and more, until you're back where you started, not caring. Except now you're totally desensitized to realistic violence, as well as unrealistic violence. I do not think an entire generation of completely desensitized kids would bode well.

my $.02

 

[Danimal]

to play the devil's advocate here, perhaps it's best that we play with an unrealistic level of violence. Think about it this way... say that HL2 had uber realistic deaths. Citizen gets shot 3 times in the chest, is laying on the ground, bleeding out, sobbing and gasping through his punctured lungs for his mother, and asking god what he did to derserve this. The first time you saw that, it would have an emotional impact, a strong one.

I would laugh at him, or be the one who shot him myself :naughty:

To feel the emotion involved in such slaughter. But the second time you saw it, the emotion would be slightly less intense. Then, each resulting death would deaden the emotional impact more and more, until you're back where you started, not caring. Except now you're totally desensitized to realistic violence, as well as unrealistic violence. I do not think an entire generation of completely desensitized kids would bode well.

So you want over 100 body parts flying out of someone rather than less body parts and more blood? I can see what you mean by the emotional effect, especially when a child younger than the ago of 15 sees this... Maybe unrealistic gibbing would be good for today's games. Then again, games that have the 17+ rating shoudn't be for people UNDER the age of 17 if it involved heavy emotional impacts and obbsessive amounts of gore.

 

[Dr. Freeman]

High explosive anti tank rounds would probably penetrate someone without detonating, but if one did explode, all that would be left would be some tiny bits of a body, but it wouldnt be gib-chunks.. it would be soggy, sticky crap, yet, smouldering.

our most descriptive mod strikes again :E
what up Fluke? :afro:

 

[Styloid]

I voted for more realistic depiction but the truth is that this is not really an issue for me. It is true that more realistic violence does have more of an impact (though our threshold for an impact would just keep rising and rising) but in the case of HL2 I think that this impact is not really needed, though for some it would be a nice addition.

Some movies (games, books, whatever), do benefit from a very gory representation of death but at the same time others don't. Psycho was a great movie and the shower scene (one of the most famous scenes ever) had barely any gore in it yet had a great impact on the viewer because the movie focused on a more psychological/implicit sense of horror. It was not 'realistically' filmed like a documentary which would have shown the stabbing in all its glory- it gives the effect, rather, that something terrible is happening (and scared the hell out of lots of people). The point is that you (the developers I guess) should focus on the aspects that really matter to the whole production (HL2: story, characters, save-the-world feeling) and sometimes this means you cut off the little extras.

I guess because I don't really see violence as a main priority in most good games, I think that sometimes it should be dumbed down to reach a wider audience. If a game is good, people should get to play it to enjoy what the game focuses on- story, puzzles, humour, anything. The fact is that there are many people/gamers both young and old who are offended if not disturbed by realistic violence and I don't see why they should miss out on stories/puzzles/jokes they like just because the devs decide to throw in incredibly gory violence. You could say that these people can turn the violence setting to 'low' but considering what we expect of 'real' violence, it would take a lot of time and effort (and computer resources) on the developer's part just to add in that violence (that many people would turn off anyway and doesn't really add to the main attraction of the game... unless the main attraction is gore). This relates back to the point that developers should be focusing on the pivotal points of the game-- work for what they can realistically achieve-- they're only human, they shouldn't be working 80+ hours a week. We can demand that games be more 'real' all we want (or roads be paved faster, or oars to be rowed faster, or clothing be stitched faster) but some things aren't worth cracking the whip for.

 

[CREMATOR666]

Uh...Styloid...could you shorten up your stuff? I'm kinda too lazy to read

 

[Asuka]

For hl2 it was perfect.

Other games just need a lot of gore

 

[Ennui]

I don't think gore is really necessary; I'd rather not see someone disembowelled in real life and therefore I'm not too eager to see it in a game, either. I think the blood is enough - the only reason I care about gore is because it's fun to make the blood spatter.

 

[Wilsonator]

Hmm...

I think it's fine as it is, it's a lot more fun 'helping' someone win the Olympic high jump with an RPG than it is to blast them into little giblets.

 

[Kazin]

VALVe doesnt always know best. Maybe you should check the results of the poll.

Yeah that's why game developers usally get weapons physics and modeling wrong. Not to mention reloading animations incorrect. They've never acutally held a gun or the one they're trying to reproduce.

 

[Shadow112090]

there should also be things, like you can make holes in walls with the rpg, or you can dent arrels by shooting or hitting them. that would be another great mod

 

[CREMATOR666]

there should also be things, like you can make holes in walls with the rpg

Red Faction? :O That was crap

 

[gurra]

Understand, it is not that I want to see organs or people suffering.
Its that there are horrible, gruesome consequences for violent actions.
To deny this is to deny reality.
And so for the sake of realism, emersion, and intensity, I believe violence should be depicted in a realistic maner.

I agree. It should be realistic, neither exaggerated nor to kind. I don't think realistically depicted violence will make you blunt if you're a normal person. But that's a different discussion.

The amount of realism should definately be scalable though, as mentioned.

 

[Sid Burn]

Red Faction? :O That was crap

lol... yeah. damn... wasted 20 bucks on that game.

 

[Fishlore]

I guess when I was twelve gore was super 733t. I encourage all of you who want more gore to volunteer in a big city hospital ER. Touch, smell and feel the worst things you could possibly see happen to a fellow human being. You'll quickly come to a point where you want your entertainment to be free from that nonsense that adds nothing to gameplay.

It needs to be scalable I believe. Life is about options.

 

[Great Grizzly]

hmm the violence in hl1 was way too unrealistic, WAY too over the top.

The violence in hl2 was fine

 

[f|uke]

I guess when I was twelve gore was super 733t. I encourage all of you who want more gore to volunteer in a big city hospital ER. Touch, smell and feel the worst things you could possibly see happen to a fellow human being. You'll quickly come to a point where you want your entertainment to be free from that nonsense that adds nothing to gameplay.

It needs to be scalable I believe. Life is about options.

I am 29, and I have volenteered in a city hospital ER. I have seen some horrible things. And its not that I want to relive these experiences in my recreational time.

I however don't think its appropraite to take the edge off of people dying violent deaths.. to make it more 'pallatable'.

And because bodies are indestructable, because there was no emotional suffering, these characters do not seem real to me. I really didn't hate the combine. I wasn't nearly as emotionally vested into the game as I wanted to be.

The righteousness of the battle is inversly proportional to the strife.

That, and I'll admit, punishing Combine did not feel nearly as rewarding.

That being said, I agree. Options. There should be the option. I dont really want to impose my sense of what the game should be on others who cannot handle it, but I do believe that I should be able to play the game as it should be.

what up Fluke? :afro:

Whatsup bro!

 

[Sid Burn]

hmm the violence in hl1 was way too unrealistic, WAY too over the top.

The violence in hl2 was fine

you're right about that... though HL2 needs more realism.

 

[Pesmerga]

Sick, sick, sick. Valve's purpose is not to immerse you in messy combat or let you be witness to brutal dismemberments. When they fall on the floor, they're DEAD.

 

[Sid Burn]

But realism will make a game much interesting... IMO.

 

[bliink]

You know, people said Wolf3D was too realistic when it came out.
Be thankful for what you've got

 

[f|uke]

Sick, sick, sick.

Realism is sick? How so? How can you object to witnessing the true consequences of violence, and yet not object to the violence itself?

Its not sick for you to play a game where you shoot people in the head, and yet its sick for me to want to have to face the consequences of shooting someone in the head? Personally I think my view is more healthy then yours.

Be thankful for what you've got

I am. HL2 is still the best game ever. But I do believe there are long strides to go before I really feel passionatly about the events that happen in a videogame.. and that is what I am looking forward to.

 

[Gorgon]

Mortal Kombat style! Gallons of blood and organs everywhere!

 

[Da Funkey Gibbon]

I think HL2 is as about as realistic as I want it.
When it gets into "emotional distress" as someone mentioned, it just gets plain disturbing.

 

[Pesmerga]

I don't see why anyone would want that kind of immersion. Sounds like escaping life to me. If you want blood, join the army.

 

[Zeus]

Whats funny is that valve has no problem putting in a BURNED TO A CRISP body that has a heart sticking out and both arms and both legs cut off with the bones sticking out and burned out eyes and really yellow teeth in the game. They don't have a problem putting a zombified human who is still alive screaming in pain with its chest opened up so you can see their guts. They made it so you can chop a human being in half. In some levels there are intestines and inner organs lying everywhere around chopped up corpses and corpses with a ripped off face. I'm not even mentioning the countless combines you slaughter throughout the game with all kinds of weaponry.

They don't have a problem showing a human that has 5 poison headcrabs sucking all the blood out of him and his face is gone but they ban pictures of "inappropriate" garry's mod pictures because there "may be kids there" but they don't care if those kids see the aforementioned violence/gruesome things in HL2.



Also a little off topic here but in SOF2 you can rip little pieces off of a human body. I remember once blowing a man's head off (literally) with a shotgun in the game. I remember taking half of someones face off with a sniper rifle. The blood squirts out of the top of their head and pours everywhere and you can knife open their stomach and cut lose their lungs and cut until there is nothing left. Games like SOF2 are acceptable for little kids to play but a uncensored version of Leisure Suit Larry: Magna Cum Laude for example, is viewed as obscene. Games like SOF2 which is probably the most disgusting game ever made get an M rating yet uncensored nude games with absolutely 0 violence immediatly get the Ao rating.

 

[PvtRyan]

At this given moment, 52.31% of the respondents have serious emotional issues.

 

[Zeus]

67.9 % of all statistics are made up on the spot

 

[Thadius Dean]

^you mean 73.4 %



Personally I loved the over the top gore in Half-Life 1. that first section where you are dodging the lazers and there is a dead barney in front of you and then he gets hit by the lazer and he gibs, absolutely hilarious.

also loved the barney when you first meet the tentacle.

the more i think about it, gibs would probably be too much for HL2, the characters are so realistic as it is...

 

[Dr. Freeman]

I am. HL2 is still the best game ever. But I do believe there are long strides to go before I really feel passionatly about the events that happen in a videogame.. and that is what I am looking forward to.

most pple are probably going to mis-understand u on that stance but i know what ur trying to say and i agree
besides, the popular thing around here is saying how great Valve are and such (btw theres nothing wrong with that) but as soon as someone critiques the game, theres always someone here to jump to Valve's defense.

newsflash: Valve doesn't need to be defended
i am sure Valve pple are well capable of doing it themselves.

 

[Sid Burn]

Hmm... I can see that the majority of the people that voted want gore and realism. well, we can only hope that either some1 will make a mod or valve themeselves will make HL3 have gore a realism.

 

[Goalie31]

I think there should be both options in the game and the end user can pick whether they want realistic violence and gore or less violent stuff

 

[JCampbell]

Whats funny is that valve has no problem putting in a BURNED TO A CRISP body that has a heart sticking out and both arms and both legs cut off with the bones sticking out and burned out eyes and really yellow teeth in the game. They don't have a problem putting a zombified human who is still alive screaming in pain with its chest opened up so you can see their guts. They made it so you can chop a human being in half. In some levels there are intestines and inner organs lying everywhere around chopped up corpses and corpses with a ripped off face. I'm not even mentioning the countless combines you slaughter throughout the game with all kinds of weaponry.

They don't have a problem showing a human that has 5 poison headcrabs sucking all the blood out of him and his face is gone but they ban pictures of "inappropriate" garry's mod pictures because there "may be kids there" but they don't care if those kids see the aforementioned violence/gruesome things in HL2.



Also a little off topic here but in SOF2 you can rip little pieces off of a human body. I remember once blowing a man's head off (literally) with a shotgun in the game. I remember taking half of someones face off with a sniper rifle. The blood squirts out of the top of their head and pours everywhere and you can knife open their stomach and cut lose their lungs and cut until there is nothing left. Games like SOF2 are acceptable for little kids to play but a uncensored version of Leisure Suit Larry: Magna Cum Laude for example, is viewed as obscene. Games like SOF2 which is probably the most disgusting game ever made get an M rating yet uncensored nude games with absolutely 0 violence immediatly get the Ao rating.

Most likely kids who are visiting the steampowered.com forums (Im assuming that's where you're talking about) who are fairly young probably had their parents buy the game for them, and thus, the allowance of exposure to the given content.
People know HL2 is violent. It's rated M for the violence, not for the sexually explicit scenes. Parents may not give a hoot about violence in any way, shape or form, but strongly object to anything sexual in nature.

Also, the garry's mod "screenshots" are just childish people doing things that they think are funny. "OH WOW, ANOTHER SEXUAL POSE!!! MORE!!!" Please. They might have been funny the first couple of times. But after the 100th post titled "l0lz, lfunnee scr33ns," it gets tiresome. It used to happen here before the mods got tired of it.

Please post a reference to where they reasoned with "children may be watching." The only excuses I've ever heard are about keeping the crap out of the forums, as in crap that's been posted a billion times that's only funny to the poster.

To summarize, HL2 is violent, not sexual. The argument is dead. Go post your screens on www.l33tHL2p0rn.com

 

[CREMATOR666]

Games can be realistic without resorting to gore but it would feel even more realistic if you have some brain chunks flying Games are made so that you can do what you cant do in real life, enjoy it

 

[Sid Burn]

I think there should be both options in the game and the end user can pick whether they want realistic violence and gore or less violent stuff

Hmm... nice idea. an option for extreme realism and moderate realism. :smoking:

 

[Arathiel]

To summarize, HL2 is violent, not sexual. The argument is dead. Go post your screens on www.l33tHL2p0rn.com

hey... that link doesn't work. liar. got my hopes up

 

[sup2069]

If you had the gibs then whats the point of ragdoll physics. I think that's the purpose normal humans/combine weren't gibbed.

Well to a certain extent. If alot of force or pressure kills the NPC then it should gib. (ala antlion)

 

[gazoox999]

Playing with ragdolls is way more fun than playing with gibs, eh?

 

[piggy]

the violence in hl2 is pacified as you can blast two shotgun shells right into a combines face at point blank range, and he keeps his head.
also note the rpg,if you blast some dude right in the chest, he would lose his limbs quite quite quickly

isnt blast a wonderful word?