How to get help from friends?

[Homercidal]

So, I've had an idea for a DM map for a long, long time now (Was supposed to be a HL1 map originally) and I actually got inspired by a friend who started building a map with me with Oil Tanks and walkways going up the sides. So we did a bit of it, but then other games called and we kinda dropped the map due to inexperience.

Anyway, now that HL2 is out we're picking up the process again and I have several more features to place in the map, trying to remain true to the overall nature of the map and am very excited about it.

He seems excited about it too and volunteered to help by building things and what not. Problem is, I can't even get any design ideas out of him, nor the other friend who also agreed to help (Even if it was just brainstorming, testing, critisising, etc.)

I know these guys have the ability to come up with cool ideas, and our map is not planned to have custom content, just a new level with HL2 stuff in it.

What can I do to get these guys interested in helping out? I got most of the level designed up and submitted drawing to them for their suggestions and critisism, but they only want to say Cool, lookin good, and I like that! But what I really need is stuff like "You could set "this" up here", or "That won't work, dumbass", or "Let's scrap the whole lower level and start over down there" Sht, anything to make me feel like they are takign an active role in the map.

There is no way I can complete the map by myself (Job, wife, kids, house, holidays, etc.) and it will be a stretch to think that we could get it done in 2 months with all three of us working on it when we can. These guys are supposed to be smarter at map ideas and one of them has extensive experience at using 3D design software. Map building should be second nature to him.

Ok, this is turning into a rant.. I'm just frustrated. I got no map started, just ideas drwan up and I should have a map with most of the architecture and some of the features implemented by now.

-Mapless in Seattle

 

[The Dark Elf]

Welcome to lesson #1 - Never rely on anyone else


Goes for all walks of life, not just mapping

 

[don_johnson]

tell them you will take them to the strip club if you get the map done within two months. if that dosent work, you could threaten torture

 

[sabre0001]

I also had this problem...designed a level based on a place that friends knew and no suggestions...just the old...thats cool etc...Thats why you should post screens or maps here or get a few mappers or serious gamers together for play tests (mappers are better cos they know whats possible, what you could actually do and what will make the level better)

I had a SP level and my friend comes along and says "thats good but couldnt you make the monster jump out, open his mouth real wide and then just run away" - Took everything in me not to hit him with the keyboard!!

 

[Homercidal]

tell them you will take them to the strip club if you get the map done within two months. if that dosent work, you could threaten torture

I'm sure they'd like that! But, I wouldn't.

I suppose I wouldn't feel like I'm relying on them except they said they would help, to more or less a certain degree. Except I'm not even getting any real feeback.

I suppose I could work extra hard at getting it done, and then not let them play it... That would show them!

I actually got a response this morning from the one who was supposed to have the experience and desire. He's looking to get working on the Oil Tanks this evening and wants me to send a basic map layout if I have it so he can work with scaling and get the size right. Nice timing!

The other one wasn't sure he was going to help actually make the level because he hasn't really done it, but offered to offer suggestions.

I thought about posting the map here for help, but we're thinking about entering into the DM contest (If by some huge amount of fortune it can be done by then) and I would feel obligated to share the prize if I got some real help. If we don't get done in time, I'll surely be sending requests.

Hopefully we're not doing anything too fancy. I'm counting on the gameplay to sell the map, not the looks.

 

[archvilell]

The first thing to do when building a map is sketch it out. Then (before you start creating it) go get some graph paper. That will save a lot of headaches. Once you have those two done, then start creating.

By the sound of your problem, it sounds like you have Step 1 and maybe Step 2 done. You could scan the layouts and put them up for us to see and critize for you, but you would run the risk of someone stealing it (not the average guy, just the one or two "bad apples"), and, since you might want to enter it into the DM contest, that's a risk you'll have to decide.

Personally, I love to say what I think about maps because I had the same problem. My friend (who's working with me) always says, "I don't know" or "I don't care" when I ask him a question. So if you posted something map related, I'd give you some help.

 

[pur3r4ge]

I wouldn't think you'd be obligated to share the prize with someone who helped test or criticize. I wouldn't expect that at all if I were to test a map for someone. Criticizing eachother's work and offering help is what makes a community. Demanding compensation for that help would be absurd.