Hydrogen Becoming a More Viable Fuel Source?

[SidewinderX]

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2005/04/050422165917.htm

Good Stuff!

The researchers call their hydrogen-producing MFC a BioElectrochemically-Assisted Microbial Reactor or BEAMR. The BEAMR not only produces hydrogen but simultaneously cleans the wastewater used as its feedstock. It uses about one-tenth of the voltage needed for electrolysis, the process that uses electricity to break water down into hydrogen and oxygen.

Logan adds, "This new process demonstrates, for the first time, that there is real potential to capture hydrogen for fuel from renewable sources for clean transportation."

 

[Tr0n]

Welp...then theres the problem of holding the hydrogen and so on.Also...

While there is likely insufficient waste biomass to sustain a global hydrogen economy, this form of renewable energy production may help offset the substantial costs of wastewater treatment as well as provide a contribution to nations able to harness hydrogen as an energy source," Logan notes,.

Hydrogen is the way to go...but untill systems to support hydrogen like the tank and so on gets smaller and weighs less hydrogen won't happen.Thats why I think the hydrogen-on-demand(link) system is the best way to go.

 

[Feath]

Is there any good way to tell a mod that you think they've posted in the wrong forum?

 

[qckbeam]

Is there any good way to tell a mod that you think they've posted in the wrong forum?

Well, it usually involves some sort of sordid sexual favor afterwards.

 

[KoreBolteR]

scientist guy for president! :O

 

[Tr0n]

Is there any good way to tell a mod that you think they've posted in the wrong forum?

Well it does have to do with politics some.

 

[SidewinderX]

Is there any good way to tell a mod that you think they've posted in the wrong forum?

Heh, after looking in off-topic and seeing topics such as "Favorite Sausage", I decided there would be better discussion here. Besides, I don't mind the political sidetrack here.

 

[gh0st]

You assholes. If we suddenly used this hydrogen power, where would all the rich oil tycoons and Saudi multibillionares go?

 

[Tr0n]

You assholes. If we suddenly used this hydrogen power, where would all the rich oil tycoons and Saudi multibillionares go?

They wouldn't have to go anywhere...just switch up their enterprise from oil to hydrogen. (Yes I know it's not that easy.)

 

[SidewinderX]

Well, they wouldn't go anywhere... Asia is just gearing up to drain the remaining oil wells...

 

[gh0st]

Well, they wouldn't go anywhere... Asia is just gearing up to drain the remaining oil wells...

Lets fight em. The US and the UK, just like it was meant to be.

 

[RakuraiTenjin]

I wonder what'll happen to the middle east once, in the future, hydrogen or some other invention/finding makes fuel cheap clean easy and fast.

If it happened very fast it might send them into chaos and more war.

But if it happened overtime it may have a different outcome. I wonder.

 

[gh0st]

I wonder what'll happen to the middle east once, in the future, hydrogen or some other invention/finding makes fuel cheap clean easy and fast.

If it happened very fast it might send them into chaos and more war.

But if it happened overtime it may have a different outcome. I wonder.

It would plunge them into the same decay they enjoyed before oil made them a commodity to the world. The sooner the better, those pompous bastards that run OPEC need to have their shit shoveled in their face.

 

[Tr0n]

It would plunge them into the same decay they enjoyed before oil made them a commodity to the world. The sooner the better, those pompous bastards that run OPEC need to have their shit shoveled in their face.

If that sends the economies of the middle east to hell...then what about all the civilians?They would be in a depression beyond anything we've seen.

Also you have to consider the politics behind it...remember kuwait is one of our biggest allies in the middle east and they're also one of the biggest oil producing countries in the world.

 

[gh0st]

If that sends the economies of the middle east to hell...then what about all the civilians?They would be in a depression beyond anything we've seen.

I dont give a rats ass what happens there. All their economies are tuned to one thing: oil. When that goes down they all do. And best of all, it wont be my fault or my problem. I dont recall getting any help when we were in our own depression.

Also you have to consider the politics behind it...remember kuwait is one of our biggest allies in the middle east and they're also one of the biggest oil producing countries in the world.

Kuwait is our ally BECAUSE they are one of the biggest oil producing countries in the world. Without oil, our relationships with middle eastern countries is moot. We have a valuable trade relationship with European nations, thats why they are our lasting allies. Middle Eastern nations are temporary allies until their commodity ceases to exist. All the religious based conflict they bring along is the price we pay for oil dependency.

The "good" Middle Eastern nations would simply transition their economies; the rest wouldnt have the first clue how.

 

[Korgoth]

I dont give a rats ass what happens there. All their economies are tuned to one thing: oil. When that goes down they all do. And best of all, it wont be my fault or my problem. I dont recall getting any help when we were in our own depression.

Kuwait is our ally BECAUSE they are one of the biggest oil producing countries in the world. Without oil, our relationships with middle eastern countries is moot. We have a valuable trade relationship with European nations, thats why they are our lasting allies. Middle Eastern nations are temporary allies until their commodity ceases to exist. All the religious based conflict they bring along is the price we pay for oil dependency.

The "good" Middle Eastern nations would simply transition their economies; the rest wouldnt have the first clue how.

If thats the case... Then please, one more time old buddy, explain to me why we are in Iraq? Because I could have swore after the WMDs were a no show, it was out of compassion and because you genuinely care about the people over there. But that would then contradict the above wouldn't it :E

 

[gh0st]

If thats the case... Then please, one more time old buddy, explain to me why we are in Iraq? Because I could have swore after the WMDs were a no show, it was out of compassion and because you genuinely care about the people over there. But that would then contradict the above wouldn't it :E

The "good" middle eastern nations of which I spoke are all democracies (or some variant of it). They will easily transition their economies to services or technology or whatever. Iraq was bad. Now its good.

 

[kmack]

I wonder what'll happen to the middle east once, in the future, hydrogen or some other invention/finding makes fuel cheap clean easy and fast.

If it happened very fast it might send them into chaos and more war.

But if it happened overtime it may have a different outcome. I wonder.

they would sell to 3rd world countries, and developing nations. the need for oil will still be there, just not in our nations, they will take a hit, but nothing they cant handle.

 

[Korgoth]

The "good" middle eastern nations of which I spoke are all democracies (or some variant of it). They will easily transition their economies to services or technology or whatever. Iraq was bad. Now its good.

Very good, thanks for the clarification.

 

[gh0st]

they would sell to 3rd world countries, and developing nations. the need for oil will still be there, just not in our nations, they will take a hit, but nothing they cant handle.

No. No, thats a hit that no economy can handle. Imagine that Microsoft invents nanocomputers for half the price of the normal computer. Countries like Japan could probably adapt to such a change, but the other, growing tech countries like India would probably be crushed utterly. The third world doesnt have the capital to support the economies of the middle east.

 

[jmjneary]

hydrogen will ruin the worlds economy a hydrogen engine can make it so you only have to buy fuel once if they get the process right and once that happens all the money going into oil and petro chemicals will be gone making millions perhaps billions of dollars dissappear per country

 

[Direwolf]

You're confused. A hydrogen engine requires hydrogen as fuel just like every other engine. So while the petrochemical industry would see a gigantic loss, the new hydrogen industry would be massive.

 

[Kebean PFC]

The petro chemical industry would still exist, but on a smaller scale. You can see what will happen to the middle east by looking at small Soulth American countries. They had oil, they sold it, and now they have nothing. They don't have an economy because they have nothing to sell (besides drugs).

Hydrogen will NOT be the savior that some people are making it out to be, but it certainly will help. It emits a different kind of polution, water. Where do you think all the water is gonna go? The end result of using Hydrogen on the scale that we use oil would be a change in world climate, perhaps leading to extreme weather conditions in some areas of the world. There would be much more rainfall and other weather conditions linked to moisture.

 

[GiaOmerta]

If we suddenly used this hydrogen power, where would all the rich oil tycoons and Saudi multibillionares go?

Don't worry, the oil tychoons are one step ahead of us. They're purchasing the patents for alternative fuels. When oil is depleted within the next 15-20 years the tychoons will release the alternative fuels and systems which run off of them. So they're stick around. :farmer:

I was watching a program recently, these scientists genetically enhanced plants to produce plastic which could be broken down into oil. Was completely safe for the enviroment, bio-degradeable, etc, but cost more. Pretty interesting.

 

[Tr0n]

The petro chemical industry would still exist, but on a smaller scale. You can see what will happen to the middle east by looking at small Soulth American countries. They had oil, they sold it, and now they have nothing. They don't have an economy because they have nothing to sell (besides drugs).

Hydrogen will NOT be the savior that some people are making it out to be, but it certainly will help. It emits a different kind of polution, water. Where do you think all the water is gonna go? The end result of using Hydrogen on the scale that we use oil would be a change in world climate, perhaps leading to extreme weather conditions in some areas of the world. There would be much more rainfall and other weather conditions linked to moisture.

Well could we not re-use that water for cooling the cars or something?

 

[kmack]

Hydrogen will NOT be the savior that some people are making it out to be, but it certainly will help. It emits a different kind of polution, water. Where do you think all the water is gonna go? The end result of using Hydrogen on the scale that we use oil would be a change in world climate, perhaps leading to extreme weather conditions in some areas of the world. There would be much more rainfall and other weather conditions linked to moisture.

conservation of matter.
but global warming doesnt exist/isnt bad (ask bush).

the things we emit now are slightly worse than water.

 

[GiaOmerta]

Well, since less than 1% of the Earth's water is drinkable maybe the biproduct would be used for drinking.

Or cooling as Tr0n pointed out.

 

[Kebean PFC]

Conservation of Matter

But more water will be vaporized/evaporated. And i never said global warming, I said extreme weather, like rain in Saudia Arabia.

Well, since less than 1% of the Earth's water is drinkable maybe the biproduct would be used for drinking.

Kinda hard becuase it is dripping out the exhaust pipe. Also, tr0n, at some point it will need to be vented into the atmosphere. This will create more water in the evaporated state, which = rain will fall more often. Who knows how the weather will change, i am just saying that i will over a period of time.

For sure it is better than what we have, i am just saying, it comes at cost too.

 

[MilkMan12]

My uncle is helping to build a large hydrogen power plant. He carefully wanrs me all the time to not invest in hydrogen powered cars. He says after working with it for so many damn years, its so godamnit untsable itll take em a hundred years to figure out a way so that everytime theres an accident it wont leave a massive 50 foot crater. I know nothing about it so he could be wrong but this is what I have heard.

 

[Tr0n]

But more water will be vaporized/evaporated. And i never said global warming, I said extreme weather, like rain in Saudia Arabia.


Kinda hard becuase it is dripping out the exhaust pipe. Also, tr0n, at some point it will need to be vented into the atmosphere. This will create more water in the evaporated state, which = rain will fall more often. Who knows how the weather will change, i am just saying that i will over a period of time.

For sure it is better than what we have, i am just saying, it comes at cost too.

Well maybe there would be a 2nd on-board tank in the car.The water would be dumped in it and when you stop to re-fill your hydrogen tank...you would connect a hose to the 2nd tank and it would be drained.

Then that water would go to the city water works to be cleaned and used.

Stupid idea...I know, but someone has to be a dreamer.

 

[Direwolf]

The water that results is actually just about the purest water you can imagine, since it's being created at the molecular level. While I wouldn't think that its practical to try and save the byproduct from cars, producing usable water at large hydrogen-powered installations wouldn't be as difficult.

 

[Kebean PFC]

The water that results is actually just about the purest water you can imagine, since it's being created at the molecular level. While I wouldn't think that its practical to try and save the byproduct from cars, producing usable water at large hydrogen-powered installations wouldn't be as difficult.

True. The water from Hydrogen power plants could be easily used, but it

would be hard to collect it from a car.
Well maybe there would be a 2nd on-board tank in the car.The water would be dumped in it and when you stop to re-fill your hydrogen tank...you would connect a hose to the 2nd tank and it would be drained.

The second tank adds weight, becuase you need the tank, connecting hoses, and pump and the electrical lines to power it. Not a stupid idea, but not practical right now. Also, where would this tank go? I have not seen a hydrogen engine, but i am guessing it takes about the same space as a V6 car engine. If so, then the tank would eat into cargo space.

 

[Direwolf]

Actually thats one of the current problems. A hydrogen "engine" and its associated fuel systems take up much more space than a gasoline one. Another reason it's not ready for personal use yet.

 

[dream431ca]

It may be becoming a more viable fuel source..but it's damn expensive. I don't mind cleaner air and all but if the cost is way to high..I'll stick to battery powered cars...oh wait..even that's very expensive..damn!! SOLAR POWERED!!!! NO!! Even more expensive!!

Me goes to ponder new energy source..........I GOT IT!!!! Vegtable oil...we'll make the world smell like french fries!!