I Bet $500.00 Canadian!

[maleficarus™]

The very first thing I thought when I heard all about this stolen source scam was NVIDIA. NVIDIA needs this code to tweak there DET50 driver build. I think the thing most people forget is NVIDIA and ATi are in this for the money. They depend on there cards being the top performers for the game of the year titles. Now let’s look at the recent events first:

NVIDIA claimed that there silicon would perform better in ID's up and coming game DOOMIII. And low and behold a series of benchmarks were done and it looks like NVIDIA came out on top with that one. BUT, and this is a very big but...DOOMIII is still "vaporware". There isn't really even a launch time. So without such a launch the hype died down almost as fast as it started.

Enter ATi--and the recent release of Valves HL2 benchmarks showing ATi embarrassing NVIDIA's best silicon to date! And guess what? HL2 has a release date, or at the very least a date or month or even year in sight. To further prove my point:

After the release of the HL2 ATi vs. NVIDIA benchmarks NVIDIA's stock fell a considerable margin. Not to mention there online popularity. And to no surprise ATi's stock jumped about as much as NVIDIA's fell. So what we are seeing here is basically real money changing hands in a big offline sort of way.

If you have been following the industry you will notice NVIDIA made an offline alliance with Electronic Arts (EA). There whole sales pitch is "The way it's meant to be played". On the other side of the fence we have ATi. They made a surprising alliance with Valve software the makers of Half-Life2. Personally EA was a good bet, but never under estimate the underdog ATi because Half-life is an almost guaranteed profit maker. Now that ATi has proved that there silicon can play the most anticipated game the best, NVIDIA is pushed into a corner. And I would not doubt it for a single second that someone from NVIDIA is behind this scam...

The above just needs to be proved or proven against now...


I posted this post in another thread but now I want to dive back in, in my own thread and talk "abit" more on this subject. Who here thinks I'm totally crazy accusing NVIDIA of stealing the source code? You have to admit I made a strong case against them! :cheese:

I will bet anyone right now my weeks pay ($500.00 CDN) that in the next several weeks NVIDIA will be releasing a much improved DET50 driver build improving HL2's performance considerably. Anyone want to match my $500.00 CDN? ($300.00 USD) :bounce:

 

[Woggy]

Cant you just give it to me without betting?

 

[Mcn@sty]

I think they were going to release better DX9 drivers anyway. You can't tell if they are better or worse than b4 the leak for obvious reasons. So you can't loose/win

 

[Gary Reno]

" I think the thing most people forget is NVIDIA and ATi are in this for the money."

So is Valve.

 

[maleficarus™]

Originally posted by Gary Reno
" I think the thing most people forget is NVIDIA and ATi are in this for the money."

So is Valve.

I don't see your green... :dork:

 

[Turin]

500...what's that about a dollar?

I'm in.

 

[GhostValkyrie]

Actually Doom III is slated for Release April 2004. And they said it's not just a projected date, it is the release date. Of course this can change, just letting you know it's not vaporware.

-Ghost.

 

[maleficarus™]

Originally posted by Turin
500...what's that about a dollar?

I'm in.

LOL!

Funny...

But even though my dollar is worth at best 60% USD, it's still 40% that you have a very good chance of losing...

 

[maleficarus™]

Off to play Homeworld2!

Have to support Vale anyways I can!

Back in 60!

 

[nsxownzme]

Well, as much as I'd like to agree, it just seems far fetched. Whats the difference anyways, ATi and nVIDIA will just keep making cards .. who knows maybe nVIDIA's line up next year will be better than ATi's? Although.. I'm an ATi fanboy.

 

[ultraq]

well, that cannot be cosidered as a proof, you are just saying that they have a strong motivation to do such thing, BUT .. you need to prove that they actually DID it.

many others have reasons to do it, and if you think about it, Nvidia can pay valve some money to get the source code. and something tells me that valve did indeed give them something already to help them develope thier drivers.

On the other hand, other people like hackers/cheaters/wareze0rz/whatever also have thier reasons/motivations to do it. and haxing is thier only way.

 

[Shuzer]

$500.00 Canadian? Isn't that like, 27¢ American? :cheese:

Edit: Aw, read a few posts up, someone already made fun of the Canadian dollar =( /me cries

 

[OCybrManO]

Originally posted by maleficarus™

NVIDIA claimed that there silicon would perform better in ID's up and coming game DOOMIII. And low and behold a series of benchmarks were done and it looks like NVIDIA came out on top with that one.

Yep... GeForce FX's run slightly faster in Doom3 than Radeons.

Why? Why not ask John Carmack himself?

John Carmack in response to the Half-Life 2 benchmark

Unfortunately, it will probably be representative of most DX9 games. Doom has a custom back end that uses the lower precisions on the GF-FX, but when you run it with standard fragment programs just like ATI, it is a lot slower. The precision doesn't really matter to Doom, but that won't be a reasonable option in future games designed around DX9 level hardware as a minimum spec.

John Carmack

That's right, lowered precision... the only way to get good PS2.0 performance on GeForce FX cards.

 

[chu]

I bet $5 canadian it was terrorists

 

[Turin]

Originally posted by maleficarus™
LOL!

Funny...

But even though my dollar is worth at best 60% USD, it's still 40% that you have a very good chance of losing...

I think the bet we should be making is an over/under.

We need someone to set is first though. I'm not willing to take all bets. If I was a book maker, I would start with with 71 though.

 

[mekilla]

I bet your wrong! If NVIDIA wanted the source to optimise their software bad enough to steal it, they would NEVER release it on to the internet.

 

[Athlon7]

To understand why Valve was hacked, and why the source code was released you have to understand the mentality of the hacker. Nvidia did not do this, nor did they have any hand in it.

Now then, NVidia can release all the drivers they want, but! The flaw is in the hardware itself, thus the consistently low performance in all pure DX9 games. It's simply poorly and hastily designed. You would most likely see a cap of say, 10% performance increase, nothing more as you can only do so much to code around faulty hardware!

 

[Turin]

Originally posted by Athlon7
To understand why Valve was hacked, and why the source code was released you have to understand the mentality of the hacker. Nvidia did not do this, nor did they have any hand in it.

Now then, NVidia can release all the drivers they want, but! The flaw is in the hardware itself, thus the consistently low performance in all pure DX9 games. It's simply poorly and hastily designed. You would most likely see a cap of say, 10% performance increase, nothing more as you can only do so much to code around faulty hardware! [/QUOTE

...and you know their hardware like the back of your hand.

 

[Athlon7]

Turin, look at TR AOD and H2, and read some anandtech. The hardware community and myself are correct.

DX9 is DX9 it's as simple as that.

 

[Turin]

Originally posted by Athlon7
Turin, look at TR AOD and H2, and read some anandtech. The hardware community and myself are correct.

DX9 is DX9 it's as simple as that.

I've seen those sites. They are a great source of infomation. I agree that the 9800 xt would be the way to go right now if I was in the market for a card. I don't agree that anyone knows if it is a hardware or software issue that is holding the other one back. It could be either, and someone posting on a forum sure as shit doesn't know any better than the rest of us.

 

[Turin]

Originally posted by Turin
I've seen those sites. They are a great source of infomation. I agree that the 9800 xt would be the way to go right now if I was in the market for a card. I don't agree that anyone knows if it is a hardware or software issue that is holding the other one back. It could be either, and someone posting on a forum sure as shit doesn't know any better than the rest of us.

I meant anyone outside the industry...like us.

 

[Ares]

Well, it's quite obvious now that when comparing the recent ATI cards with the recent Nvidia cards that the Nvidia card is lacking hardware wise. I'm pretty sure that the only way Nvidia's cards (5600, 5900 etc) can be on even level with the 9600, 9700, 9800 (pros, normals, or XTs) is by lowering graphical properties.

Sorry Nvidia, but I'm switching to an ATI card - they're just over all better. That's not to say that Nvidia's cards are BAD.. it's just that I can get much better performance and graphics for the price of "similar" Nvidia card. It's a smarter purchase to go with ATI.

I shall keep my GF3 card however, for it has done me well

 

[Chode]

Well, Derr.

It is no secret that NVIDIA are in the works of developing the new Detonator 50 drivers. They've been at it for some time now. They are expected any day now.

These drivers would have/will come out regardless of the leak.

Besides, NVIDIA would not need a leak in order to optimise drivers. Valve want maximum market, and the market is made up of both NVIDIA and ATI card holders. Valve would be working with NVIDIA to make optimisations to get the game to run at a decent rate for NVIDIA cards.

I think you are basing your knowledge of unsupported leaked NVIDIA drivers. Remember that the most up to date official detonator drivers are 45.23. Check www.nvidia.com if you don't believe me.

 

[Elite Suspect]

Omg... NVIDIA and ATI helpped code the source. They don't need to steal it you moron.

 

[Elanthril]

I bet 5 yen the source code was the source code of Jazz Jackrabbit !

 

[Maskirovka]

there are drivers leaked by the hacker. many people say they work great, but i haven't seen any comparisons or anything...i assume valve was testing/working with em...who knows if they're even complete or fully working

 

[Homer]

trust me, nvidia did NOT leak the source code.

 

[Caminante]

$500 Canadian isn't really that much over here in the States, you know. :cheese:

 

[D33]

I'll take that bet.

 

[Athlon7]

Detonator 50's have been shown to lower image quality, you won't get that much more performance out of them. My 10% prediction stands.

 

[shapeshifter]

Originally posted by Caminante
$500 Canadian isn't really that much over here in the States, you know. :cheese:

its only 378.645 USD, by 2012 market experts belive the canadian dollar will be equal with the USD, so it will be $1=$1, back in the 70's the canadian dollar used to be worth much more then the USD to.

 

[alco]

Originally posted by Caminante
$500 Canadian isn't really that much over here in the States, you know. :cheese:

Could you spare 378$, then? Ain't much anyways.

 

[P4boy]

At the moment, Nvidia cards are crap.
When they are better than ATI again I will buy them again.

Until that time no amount of detonator releases will make me change my mind. Fix the hardware design first - then fix the drivers not the otherway round

 

[harhar]

right now 1$US = 75cents CDN

 

[krugman]

There is one problem with this theory. ATI stated that they used the standard DX9.0 code path and didn't feel the need to deviate from this.
Link
The code path ATI used is the one documented in the DX9 SDK (software development kit). No need to steel code to find out what ATI are doing differently, The real issue is What the hell are Nvidia playing at that requires developers to take a different code path. It's not like DX9 API information is secret. it's all there in the SDK, unusual for Microsoft I know, but there it is. Seems Nvidia decided to go their own way and are now playing catch-up as a result.

I'll have my 500 canadian dollars now please
do you want my paypal number :cheese:

krugman